tell me why

[CrownCaster]

I answered you to the best of my ability. We will never agree. I am a non christian asking a question to christians and your use to the bible means nothing to me.

And you say you once were a Christian? Let me guess. Grew up in a Christian home and think that makes you one?

 

[12volt_man]

I answered you to the best of my ability.

No you haven't. You've made numerous accusations against me and others and you refuse to back them up.

You just throw wild accusations out and hope that something sticks.

This is the rhetorical equivilent of the bratty neighborhood kid who throws flaming bags of dog **** on the neighbor's doorstep, rings the bell and then runs and hides behind a bush to watch

I am a non christian asking a question to christians and your use to the bible means nothing to me.

That's awfully convenient of you, isn't it? To make claims about what the Bible says (doesn't say/says/doesn't say/says...) and then run away when asked to show where it says these things, saying that you don't have to because you don't believe the Bible in the first place?

It's also disingenuous on your part to attempt to quote scripture (out of context, no less) and then, when called on it, say that you don't believe the Bible.

 

[GodAtWorkToday]

Egyptian holy hieroglyphics and ancient Rome's stories have lasted the test of time as well...do you believe them? I believe in the Agnostic way of viewing the bible the same I would reading an ancient writing.

The existence of these writing has lasted through time, however the acceptance of their teachings, has not stood the test of time on a global scale.

I am not saying SIN is okay. I am stating if ( which I don't feel they should) Christian choose to judge they should judge all sin equally.

So do you agree that homosexuality is A sin, at least according to the Bible's definition of sin.

A Christian isn't going to treat their child's stealing a candy bar from a store as if their child were homosexual yet according to YOUR bible both these actions lead you to hell.

While a Christian parent may see a difference in these things and respond with different emotion to them, both would be unacceptable behaviours, and both would indeed lead to hell if unchecked and continued to be practiced throuhout the persons life with no repentance.

Christian points mean nothing to me when they use the BIBLE to justify their hate. During the days of slavery the Bible was used to justify what was done to African Americans, Neo-Nazi separatists use the BIBLE to justify their hate. Rev. Phelp ( whose standing as a Christian I am semi- confused about) uses the BIBLE. Mormons use the BIBLE yet is viewed by many Christians as a cult. Jehovah's-Witnesses also viewed by many Christians as a cult uses the BIBLE.

The abuse of the Bible is a very grave concern indeed. I do not deny that it has been abusively used throughout periods of history, to condone many things that should not be condoned. It has also been twisted by many cult groups. The liberal theology of a 'soft' gospel being preached in many churches is also an abuse of the Bible. These abuses come as no surprise to the Christian. Even satan used Scripture in his attempt to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. Yet Jesus' response was to use Scripture as his weapon to withstand the temptation.

I don't ever plan on coming into the " family of God" so this doesn't bother me in one bit.

That saddens me greatly. I pray that you might be led to change your mind.

I feel my walk with GOD is just fine.

Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

"What Christians are saying on this site, and other sites, and from pulpits that respect the authority of the Bible, is that this is what the Bible teaches about SIN. (That includes all types of sins, which also includes homosexuality AND adultery AND lying AND stealing and a whole long list of human evils)."

Liars ( which we all do) and thieves aren't discriminated against and an even smaller amount is murdered for these actions.

I would beg to differ. A compulsive liar would lie in the witness box (if their defence was dumb enough to put them up), and a jury would not only discount their testimony, but then be prejudiced against them.

It would be safe to say that their are more people in gaol (jail) or on death row, because of lies in evidence than there are because ofsexual preference.

How do you teach people Gods word if you avoid them?

By offering them the truth of God's word prior to avoiding them.

Arrogance is accepted, money lovers are accepted,parental disobediance is accepted, even slander is accepted according to your scripture by the " world" and by many christians yet because christians have power as of right now what offends them isn't accepted.

It is not a question of what 'offends' us. It is not an emotional decision. It is a simple objective assessment of what the Bible clearly teaches. Those things that you say are accepted are in fact not accepted within Christian circles. The world may accept them, and the world may accept homosexuality, but that does mean that a Christian ever will.

Now what is needed to be understood, is that the laws of a land are not an ABSOLUTE right or wrong, but rather a reflection of the acceptable practices and behaviours by the majority of citizens of that land. You live in country that is predominately Christian, therefore many of your laws will reflect that fact.

The stength of the secular voice in your country is evidenced by the number of laws that are clearly contrary to Christian doctrine.

"An employer cannot show prejudice against you when you apply for a job, simply because you are a 'liar'."

They can however show prejudice based on who you sleep next to at night and what is in between their legs? Wouldn't a liar affect their business more then a homosexual? Maybe not because there is so much PREJUDICE against homosexuals outside of large city areas You won't know a homosexual from anyone else.

I submit that both would be detrimental to the long term prosperity of the business as both would likely offend customers.

"Truly homosexuality is no worse than lying as a sin. It is however also no better than lying. Why should it be any more acceptable in society than lying."

Lying is more acceptable. They should be condemned equally but they aren'ts.

Maybe they are not. I suggest that the both should be treated equally. Both should be condemed, and their should be no special legislation that protects the practice of either.

You can't how ever apply these views to non believe because you fail to see they dont believe what you do.

This is actually a very interesting point. The belief about a universal law has no relevance to the authority of that law. You can disbelieve gravity but you are still subject to it.

"The Bible does NOT TEACH that there are high sins. It does however have warnings about 'sexual immorality', which would include homosexuality, adultery, and fornication."

No uninvolved party murdered a guy because they caught him cheating on his wife.

Perhaps not, but the wrong-doings of some, does not give right standing to the actions of their victims. I don't doubt that there are some who take the law into their own hands and pick on a group of people that they see as different and vulnerable. This is not a Christian action, but rather the actions of bullies and criminals.

 

[hernyaccent]

And you say you once were a Christian? Let me guess. Grew up in a Christian home and think that makes you one?

My family were Christian but I wasn't. I was a self proclaimed atheist until my junior year of high school when I met a faculty member in my private Christian high school ( which I was always in trouble in because I didn't believe & made it clear to everyone) that made me view christians different. I remain very close to her till the day.I remained christian until my sophomore year of college( 02-03/last year) when my life experiences changed and I started confronting the same hang ups I had prior to becoming " saved".


Now I have a relationship with God,believe Jesus died for my sins and have extreme faith but I am not a christian by " religion". I don't believe in organized religion.

 

[GodAtWorkToday]

The only problem with being in the "Church of One" which is a description given to it by a man in our church who followed your Christian path for 20 years is that you are easily led astray by the devil. The fire of faith is easily doused by the drenching of doubt.

Think of a campfire. How do you put it out. Answer, you scatter the embers so they are separated and then sprinkle water on them to cool them down. Sprinkle, scatter, sprinkle, scatter. This is also satan's strategy for Christians that will accept it. Be scattered into many individual churches of one, and then liberally spinkle them with doubts. Pretty soon faith will die out, just as surely as the campfire.

This is why the Bible says;

Heb 10:24-25 ESV
(24) And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
(25) not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

In a church of believers, we get stirred up to faith and good works, just as one might stoke up a fire when all the embers are gathered together.

 

[CrownCaster]

My family were Christian but I wasn't. I was a self proclaimed atheist until my junior year of high school when I met a faculty member in my private Christian high school ( which I was always in trouble in because I didn't believe & made it clear to everyone) that made me view christians different. I remain very close to her till the day.I remained christian until my sophomore year of college( 02-03/last year) when my life experiences changed and I started confronting the same hang ups I had prior to becoming " saved".


Now I have a relationship with God,believe Jesus died for my sins and have extreme faith but I am not a christian by " religion". I don't believe in organized religion.

So you met a person and you therefore see yourself as having been a Christian? Becoming a Christian happens when you meet Jesus. And your stance of calling the Bible a fake says more to me then any other thing in here. This is God's Word.

 

[hernyaccent]

So you met a person and you therefore see yourself as having been a Christian? Becoming a Christian happens when you meet Jesus. And your stance of calling the Bible a fake says more to me then any other thing in here. This is God's Word.

She led me to Jesus. She was the first Christian who explained Christianity without negativity and for that I was interested. She didn't look at me like the other pastors and teachers in my school and say " your going to hell because you have piercing's or Your hair is green which is not acceptable to God". Her first approach to me wasn't about what I was doing wrong but what I was doing right. I started to attended her church and I joined her Christian dance team and felt that perhaps I could still enjoy some of my interests( such as Christian rap music) and be a Christian. I got saved and my faith grew stronger and stronger. I became a leader in the church and in school. I was even asked to give a testimonial and teaching to the other students because of my influence on them. After experiencing the fall of the twin towers first hand my faith started to slip. I would sit down and talk to my friend because she was the only whose explanations made sense. I got to college ( New York University) and let it be known I was "Christian". I was harassed by students, forced to debate my beliefs and soon realized I was claiming a " religion" but not God. I would rather make loving claims about God and show people you don't need the bible to be a follower of Christ. You can show people love and compassion with out berating their views.

"your stance of calling the Bible a fake says more to me then any other thing in here. This is God's Word."

- that is your feeling or OPIONION and I respect that so respect that I disagree.

 

[hernyaccent]

The existence of these writing has lasted through time, however the acceptance of their teachings, has not stood the test of time on a global scale.

[/size] So do you agree that homosexuality is A sin, at least according to the Bible's definition of sin.

[/size] While a Christian parent may see a difference in these things and respond with different emotion to them, both would be unacceptable behaviours, and both would indeed lead to hell if unchecked and continued to be practiced throuhout the persons life with no repentance.

[/size] The abuse of the Bible is a very grave concern indeed. I do not deny that it has been abusively used throughout periods of history, to condone many things that should not be condoned. It has also been twisted by many cult groups. The liberal theology of a 'soft' gospel being preached in many churches is also an abuse of the Bible. These abuses come as no surprise to the Christian. Even satan used Scripture in his attempt to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. Yet Jesus' response was to use Scripture as his weapon to withstand the temptation.

[/size] That saddens me greatly. I pray that you might be led to change your mind.

[/size] Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

[/size] I would beg to differ. A compulsive liar would lie in the witness box (if their defence was dumb enough to put them up), and a jury would not only discount their testimony, but then be prejudiced against them.

It would be safe to say that their are more people in gaol (jail) or on death row, because of lies in evidence than there are because ofsexual preference.


[/size] By offering them the truth of God's word prior to avoiding them.

[/size] It is not a question of what 'offends' us. It is not an emotional decision. It is a simple objective assessment of what the Bible clearly teaches. Those things that you say are accepted are in fact not accepted within Christian circles. The world may accept them, and the world may accept homosexuality, but that does mean that a Christian ever will.

Now what is needed to be understood, is that the laws of a land are not an ABSOLUTE right or wrong, but rather a reflection of the acceptable practices and behaviours by the majority of citizens of that land. You live in country that is predominately Christian, therefore many of your laws will reflect that fact.

The stength of the secular voice in your country is evidenced by the number of laws that are clearly contrary to Christian doctrine.

[/size] I submit that both would be detrimental to the long term prosperity of the business as both would likely offend customers.

[/size] Maybe they are not. I suggest that the both should be treated equally. Both should be condemed, and their should be no special legislation that protects the practice of either.

[/size] This is actually a very interesting point. The belief about a universal law has no relevance to the authority of that law. You can disbelieve gravity but you are still subject to it.

[/size] Perhaps not, but the wrong-doings of some, does not give right standing to the actions of their victims. I don't doubt that there are some who take the law into their own hands and pick on a group of people that they see as different and vulnerable. This is not a Christian action, but rather the actions of bullies and criminals.

" This is not a Christian action, but rather the actions of bullies and criminals."
--Many of these bullies and criminals claim to do it in the name of God.

"I submit that both would be detrimental to the long term prosperity of the business as both would likely offend customers."

Once again I think that has to do with location,education and knowledge. I live in New York City and in almost every store I have been in their is a homosexual working there but I am sure that wouldn't be the case in a small town in Texas because of religious views. How is it that you spot a homosexual?
http://www.bunim-murray.com/assets/shows/photos/rwph_cast_karamo He is a homosexual if you saw him working in a store would you think he was? He doesn't act female nor dress any different then an urban mail. http://www.yugarproductions.com/user/RACHELRR.jpg Does she look like a lesbian? She is.
Who a person sleeps with at night isn't evident in their physical appearance or a title or anything for that matter.

I am going to be a physician within the next in five years ( hopefully if I can make it through medical school in that time) and talking to many other minority physicians I am informed that patient get OFFENDED because they don't want a Negro doctor or nurse and if that is the case then the feel "let me die or remain sick". Does that mean that because I am African American that I should let my patient die because of their request? Point being people get offended by race,gender,age, sexuality and anything else....WHO CARES?

"Those things that you say are accepted are in fact not accepted within Christian circles. "
They aren't...

Meanwhile, back in New Jersey, The New York Times reports that Raymond and Venessa Jackson who have been accused of starving their four adopted boys were welcomed with open arms by their congregation.

The Rev. Harry Thomas, pastor of the Jacksons' church, helped raise the $20,000 in cash needed to make bail of $200,000 for the two parents Saturday night. The Jacksons made a triumphant return to the church Sunday, receiving a standing ovation from the congregation. The couple is barred from having contact with their nonbiological children, and have moved to a secret location to tape the CBS program and to visit with their four biological children. Still to come may be Congressional hearings. Representative Wally Herger, a California Republican and chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee's Subcommittee on Human Resources, announced last week that a hearing would be held soon on the plight of the boys.

Members of the Jacksons' church, which donated more than $10,000 last month to pay the family's overdue electric bill and back rent, were quick to defend the couple.

Dan Hutchins, 34, a church member, said the Jacksons had baby-sat for his two children for about five years. "None of it is true," he said of the allegations against the Jacksons. "They are just phenomenal, phenomenal people."

​

The Jacksons and their supporters have set up a website, savethejacksons.org to refute the allegations that they are abusive parents and to raise money for their defense.




The NYT also states (as has been widely reported elsewhere):

Mr. and Mrs. Jackson were arrested Oct. 24, two weeks after a neighbor in Collingswood, N.J., found their adopted son Bruce, 19 years old but standing only 4 feet tall and weighing less than 50 pounds, out rummaging in the garbage for food late at night​

This heterosexual couple has four severely malnourished children in their home in addition to other adopted and biological children, they are unemployed and $10,000 behind in rent and utility bills, New Jersey child-welfare workers didn't seem to notice any problems and where considering giving them another child to adopt.

Christians flock to their own even if they are wrong. There are other cases of this if you want me to find them I will but this is the most local one in my area.


"By offering them the truth of God's word prior to avoiding them."
So you tell them what God says and then go away?

"Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death."
- We all die. So what everyone sees as ( christian or non christian) leads to death.

I am glad someone can admit " God's WORD " is abused.

You wouldn't kick your child out for stealing a candy bar.

"So do you agree that homosexuality is A sin, at least according to the Bible's definition of sin."
According to the Bible it's a sin but my heart says differently.

"The existence of these writing has lasted through time, however the acceptance of their teachings, has not stood the test of time on a global scale."

Christianity was FORCED upon many by christians so many religions have died out.

 

[hernyaccent]

The existence of these writing has lasted through time, however the acceptance of their teachings, has not stood the test of time on a global scale.

[/size] So do you agree that homosexuality is A sin, at least according to the Bible's definition of sin.

[/size] While a Christian parent may see a difference in these things and respond with different emotion to them, both would be unacceptable behaviours, and both would indeed lead to hell if unchecked and continued to be practiced throuhout the persons life with no repentance.

[/size] The abuse of the Bible is a very grave concern indeed. I do not deny that it has been abusively used throughout periods of history, to condone many things that should not be condoned. It has also been twisted by many cult groups. The liberal theology of a 'soft' gospel being preached in many churches is also an abuse of the Bible. These abuses come as no surprise to the Christian. Even satan used Scripture in his attempt to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. Yet Jesus' response was to use Scripture as his weapon to withstand the temptation.

[/size] That saddens me greatly. I pray that you might be led to change your mind.

[/size] Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

[/size] I would beg to differ. A compulsive liar would lie in the witness box (if their defence was dumb enough to put them up), and a jury would not only discount their testimony, but then be prejudiced against them.

It would be safe to say that their are more people in gaol (jail) or on death row, because of lies in evidence than there are because ofsexual preference.


[/size] By offering them the truth of God's word prior to avoiding them.

[/size] It is not a question of what 'offends' us. It is not an emotional decision. It is a simple objective assessment of what the Bible clearly teaches. Those things that you say are accepted are in fact not accepted within Christian circles. The world may accept them, and the world may accept homosexuality, but that does mean that a Christian ever will.

Now what is needed to be understood, is that the laws of a land are not an ABSOLUTE right or wrong, but rather a reflection of the acceptable practices and behaviours by the majority of citizens of that land. You live in country that is predominately Christian, therefore many of your laws will reflect that fact.

The stength of the secular voice in your country is evidenced by the number of laws that are clearly contrary to Christian doctrine.

[/size] I submit that both would be detrimental to the long term prosperity of the business as both would likely offend customers.

[/size] Maybe they are not. I suggest that the both should be treated equally. Both should be condemed, and their should be no special legislation that protects the practice of either.

[/size] This is actually a very interesting point. The belief about a universal law has no relevance to the authority of that law. You can disbelieve gravity but you are still subject to it.

[/size] Perhaps not, but the wrong-doings of some, does not give right standing to the actions of their victims. I don't doubt that there are some who take the law into their own hands and pick on a group of people that they see as different and vulnerable. This is not a Christian action, but rather the actions of bullies and criminals.

BTW... I admire the way you express yourself. You are not arguementative. :]

 

[hernyaccent]

No you haven't. You've made numerous accusations against me and others and you refuse to back them up.

You just throw wild accusations out and hope that something sticks.

This is the rhetorical equivilent of the bratty neighborhood kid who throws flaming bags of dog **** on the neighbor's doorstep, rings the bell and then runs and hides behind a bush to watch



That's awfully convenient of you, isn't it? To make claims about what the Bible says (doesn't say/says/doesn't say/says...) and then run away when asked to show where it says these things, saying that you don't have to because you don't believe the Bible in the first place?

It's also disingenuous on your part to attempt to quote scripture (out of context, no less) and then, when called on it, say that you don't believe the Bible.

I made no accusations against YOU. I made an accusation that SOME christians discrimnate against homosexuals more then say and adulter. They don't protest outside of a funeral of a man who cheated on his wife openly for twenty years yet they do a homosexuals funeral.

 

[CrownCaster]

I made no accusations against YOU. I made an accusation that SOME christians discrimnate against homosexuals more then say and adulter. They don't protest outside of a funeral of a man who cheated on his wife openly for twenty years yet they do a homosexuals funeral.

Those people outside any funeral home of a gay person who has died (I assume you are speaking of such scum as the westboro Baptist(not really Baptists) Church?) are NOT Christian. They show absolutely no Christian attributes whatever. They are those, imo, who will be shocked to be told to depart when they thought their hate was good.

Maybe the person in the funeral home is in hell. I hope not but maybe. That is not a reason for anyone to rejoice but to feel sorrow. It is a terrible place and I feel much sorrow for anyone who makes it there. It is a place that should make us feel like telling the world that they don't have to go there.

And who knows, maybe Jesus met those people in their last moments and said, "hey, you lived a life of sin but I still love you. Will you accept me?" and took them to be with God that very day. God is love. I am sure He gives it every shot to get people to be with Him.

 

[hernyaccent]

Those people outside any funeral home of a gay person who has died (I assume you are speaking of such scum as the westboro Baptist(not really Baptists) Church?) are NOT Christian. They show absolutely no Christian attributes whatever. They are those, imo, who will be shocked to be told to depart when they thought their hate was good.

Maybe the person in the funeral home is in hell. I hope not but maybe. That is not a reason for anyone to rejoice but to feel sorrow. It is a terrible place and I feel much sorrow for anyone who makes it there. It is a place that should make us feel like telling the world that they don't have to go there.

And who knows, maybe Jesus met those people in their last moments and said, "hey, you lived a life of sin but I still love you. Will you accept me?" and took them to be with God that very day. God is love. I am sure He gives it every shot to get people to be with Him.

They do claim to be Christian regardless of how you feel about their views. Not all Christians interpret Christianity the way the next individual does. These leaders are ordained ministers in Christian church and their rights to preach have never been taken away.
Brief Bio of Pastor Fred Phelps

Quote from another pastor who does believe Phelps views
" He is a fundamentalist Christian minister, who, like all fundamentalists, believe in the inerrancy of scripture in all it's details."

His actions are done in the name of Christ if you agree or disagree is not the issue.

 

[fluffy_rainbow]

I don't think it has anything to do with being gay or lesbian. Charles Manson never killed anyone. He always had other people (all females) do the killing for him. But then again, I'm opposed to capital punishment anyway. I hardly see this as a convincing argument against Christianity.

 

[hernyaccent]

I don't think it has anything to do with being gay or lesbian. Charles Manson never killed anyone. He always had other people (all females) do the killing for him. But then again, I'm opposed to capital punishment anyway. I hardly see this as a convincing argument against Christianity.

My arguement is simply ...I believe in MOST situations MOST christians treat the sin of homosexuality worst then lets say adulters.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0111/goldstein.php

There are a few examples.

 

[hernyaccent]

My arguement is simply ...I believe in MOST situations MOST christians treat the sin of homosexuality worst then lets say adulters.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0111/goldstein.php

There are a few examples.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_gays.htm

Also read this article I explains more of what i am trying to say.

 

[CrownCaster]

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_gays.htm

Also read this article I explains more of what i am trying to say.

maybe you should stop getting your stance from someone elses viewpoint. Think for yourself. It is always wiser.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Why is it that Charles Manson can rot in jail for his crimes while Eileen Wuonos & Wanda Jean Allen were injected to death?

Who decides what crime is a worst crime?

Since the women where lesbians accused of murder in the great "BIBLE BELT" does that mean they should have been condemned to death based on their sexuality. All three of the individuals above were proven clincally retarded or impaired yet only the homosexuals of the group were executed.That is true of all cases I have examined. A homosexual all recieves worst punishment in middle america.


I was once a christian and was wondering what ever happened to this passage =
"
And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye?"

Why does this rule only apply when convent for christians?

That's the problem with mans law. It changes from place to place and generation to generation. When manson was sentanced to prison he was sentanced to death. Before he was executed Calif did away with the the death penalty. . Manson and the other inmates on death row at that time lucked out. Approx 8 yrs later Calif reinstitued the death penalty.

 

[hernyaccent]

maybe you should stop getting your stance from someone elses viewpoint. Think for yourself. It is always wiser.

That is very much my point of view the atricle is to prove I don't stand alone in my views.

 

[12volt_man]

That is very much my point of view the atricle is to prove I don't stand alone in my views.

But what good is it to stand with someone else if the people you're standing with are wrong?

You cut and pasted an article that claimed Calvin Burdine recieved an unfair trial, but the article you cut and pasted neglected to mention that the 5th Curcuit CoA threw his appeal out because he was not able to provide any evidence that his trial was unfair.

That's rather vital information, don't you think?

Then, you cut and pasted a list of conservative groups in an effort to show that Christians persecute gays, but not only are some of the groups on the list not Christian groups, many of the descriptions fail to mention their views on homosexuality and those that do just make accusations without any attempt to demonstrate them.

You still haven't attempted to demonstrate their claim (which now becomes your claim, since you are using them as a reference to make your case) that two of the groups advocate the execution of gays.

When they - and, by extension, you - make such outrageous claims without even a hint of proof, you can't possibly believe that lends credibility to your argument, do you?

And I'm still waiting for you to cite some of your sources that I asked you to.

 

[hernyaccent]

But what good is it to stand with someone else if the people you're standing with are wrong?

You cut and pasted an article that claimed Calvin Burdine recieved an unfair trial, but the article you cut and pasted neglected to mention that the 5th Curcuit CoA threw his appeal out because he was not able to provide any evidence that his trial was unfair.

That's rather vital information, don't you think?

Then, you cut and pasted a list of conservative groups in an effort to show that Christians persecute gays, but not only are some of the groups on the list not Christian groups, many of the descriptions fail to mention their views on homosexuality and those that do just make accusations without any attempt to demonstrate them.

You still haven't attempted to demonstrate their claim (which now becomes your claim, since you are using them as a reference to make your case) that two of the groups advocate the execution of gays.

When they - and, by extension, you - make such outrageous claims without even a hint of proof, you can't possibly believe that lends credibility to your argument, do you?

And I'm still waiting for you to cite some of your sources that I asked you to.

A lot of people also sit on death row and are found innocent. How many innocent people fried in the chair prior to DNA evidence for crimes they didn't commit? The court isn't always right it is ran by MAN.

"Then, you cut and pasted a list of conservative groups in an effort to show that Christian persecute gays, but not only are some of the groups on the list not Christian groups, many of the descriptions fail to mention their views on homosexuality and those that do just make accusations without any attempt to demonstrate them.:

Out of the groups I listed only 3 were not Christian organizations out of 17. One was a law group hired by Christian because they also represented allowing bible and Christian clubs in schools - which I see nothing wrong with. The other two were fundamentalist abortion groups.

I cited my information and instead of addressing issues I prove you wrong on with articles you move on to a way of discrediting them. Why can't you accept homosexuals are discrimated against and treated differently by a large majority of the Christian community. Many other Christians on here have and express their un acceptance for this but they agree it happens.

You will probably also not admit their is racism in this country because you don't have proof.