Tell me: Who is Jesus?

[CantThinkofaUserName]

You should be more carful about what you promise:
gynē

Pronunciation

gü-nā' (Key)


Part of Speech

feminine noun


Root Word (Etymology)

Probably from the base of γίνομαι (G1096)
​

TDNT Reference

1:776,134​

Vines

View Entry​

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, mother, or married, or a widow
2) a wife
a) of a betrothed woman

The word here is the same for woman or mother, it just depends on how it is used.

The Term "Mother" or "mētēr" is a privately use term of endearment and would not normally be shared or declared in mixed company. (Kinda like mommy) so this more generic term which can mean mother or "Woman" is used in mixed company.

So, how's bout it? What is a good day to get dunked for you?

1.) You didn't provide a passage in the bible.

2.) For the love of all which is Holy and Good, please tell me you didn't ADD "mother" in that definition yourself.

This is what I get:

1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow

2) a wife

a) of a betrothed woman
​

Link me to where I can see the word "mother" in the definition.

 

[razeontherock]

That definition is of the Greek word used in the passage in question. It is used 221 times in 200 verses in the NT! Are you really going to read every one of them to try to establish your claim? It would be better to go to the Orthodox section and ask them about this, and if their original Greek version reads any differently, and if they hold that there has been any tampering specifically designed to denote disrespect here.

Either way, I don't think you're going to find anything as pertinent as you're hoping for. I admit you are probing into minutae I have not pursued. ALL of Christianity recognizes Mary as physical Mother of Jesus, who is fully human. (And of course, fully God) This is part and parcel of the most basic definition of Christianity possible.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Raz, before heading over to the Orthodox section (thanks for the rec'), I'd like Drich to address what I mentioned below.

You should be more carful about what you promise:
gynē

Pronunciation

gü-nā' (Key)


Part of Speech

feminine noun


Root Word (Etymology)

Probably from the base of γίνομαι (G1096)
​

TDNT Reference

1:776,134​

Vines

View Entry​

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, mother, or married, or a widow
2) a wife
a) of a betrothed woman

The word here is the same for woman or mother, it just depends on how it is used.

The Term "Mother" or "mētēr" is a privately use term of endearment and would not normally be shared or declared in mixed company. (Kinda like mommy) so this more generic term which can mean mother or "Woman" is used in mixed company.

So, how's bout it? What is a good day to get dunked for you?

1.) You didn't provide a passage in the bible.

2.) For the love of all which is Holy and Good, please tell me you didn't ADD "mother" in that definition yourself.

This is what I get:

1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow

2) a wife

a) of a betrothed woman
​

Link me to where I can see the word "mother" in the definition.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It does not mean "mother", but it is still a title of respect. The Greek word didn't simply mean "female", but rather woman (including wife). In this sense can easily be translated as "Ma'am".

In the Odyssey it's translated as "My good woman" as spoken by Ulysses,

"Ulysses scowled at her and answered, "My good woman, why should you be so angry with me? Is it because I am not clean, and my clothes are all in rags, and because I am obliged to go begging about after the manner of tramps and beggars generall?" - The Odyssey 19.220~223

The same word--gunai--is used by Jesus in John ch. 4 in reference to the woman at the well, and also of the woman caught in adultery in John ch. 8. The word has a consistent use of respect, of "Ma'am". A perfectly legitimate and respectable term to use toward one's mother.

Not being a scholar with a great deal of tools at my disposal I am unable to demonstrate how often it was used in Greek literature toward one's mother; but having looked at Thayer's Lexicon, and looking at the relevant portion of the text from the Odyssey (and yes, I did look at the Greek, it uses the same word gunai as Jesus uses in John's Gospel) and sources seem to indicate it's use as a respectful address.

Here's lines 220-221 from the Odyssey in Greek by the way:

τὴν δ᾽ ἀπαμειβόμενος προσέφη πολύμητις Ὀδυσσεύς:
‘ὦ γύναι, ἀργαλέον τόσσον χρόνον ἀμφὶς ἐόντα

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

ViaCrucis,

1.) Ulyses was speaking to Melantho, who was a daughter to Dolius, and was one of Odysseus's female servants, not his mother.

2.) You guys completely misunderstand what I say, so I will elaborate further once Drich responds, 'cause this thing below really needs to be addressed.
​

____________________
____________________

You should be more carful about what you promise:
gynē

Pronunciation

gü-nā' (Key)


Part of Speech

feminine noun


Root Word (Etymology)

Probably from the base of γίνομαι (G1096)
​

TDNT Reference

1:776,134​

Vines

View Entry​

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, mother, or married, or a widow
2) a wife
a) of a betrothed woman

The word here is the same for woman or mother, it just depends on how it is used.

The Term "Mother" or "mētēr" is a privately use term of endearment and would not normally be shared or declared in mixed company. (Kinda like mommy) so this more generic term which can mean mother or "Woman" is used in mixed company.

So, how's bout it? What is a good day to get dunked for you?

1.) You didn't provide a passage in the bible.

2.) For the love of all which is Holy and Good, please tell me you didn't ADD "mother" in that definition yourself.

This is what I get:

1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow

2) a wife

a) of a betrothed woman
​

Link me to where I can see the word "mother" in the definition.

 

[Hakan101]

You guys completely misunderstand what I say, so I will elaborate further once Drich responds, 'cause this thing below really needs to be addressed.
​

Why're you so worked up about this? We can deduce Jesus was not disrespecting Mary, based on two things. The first is the context of each time he says "woman", which has already been established as Jesus not being disrespectful. The second is that Jesus kept all of God's Law, he was not a sinner. Among the Law is the commandment "Honor thy father and mother."

If Jesus obeyed these commandments, that means he honored his mother and father. Mary was clearly his mother, therefore Jesus could not have disrespected her or else he would have sinned.

These guys have done more to explain the Greek word used than I can. What else is there to say?​

 

[ebia]

1.) You didn't provide a passage in the bible.

The only bit of the bible that is vaguely contemporary with Jesus (and written in Greek) is the New Testament. The only bits of that with narrative form are the Gospels and Acts. I can't recall anyone except Jesus quoted addressing his mother in a compatible way. Jesus only calls her "woman" twice, both times in John's gospel.

There simply is not the volume of data to sustain the test you suggest.

 

[razeontherock]

Mr OP, not only is Ebia highly knowledgeable about some detail like this that he'd render an opinion on - in this case he happens to be right. So the other poster, comparing word usage to drastically different literature was also right on target. And that confirmed what we've all been saying.

So, when is a good day to get dunked?

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Why're you so worked up about this?

The guy needs to be called out for adding that word to the definition. Even ViaCrucis, which I'm staring to believe may be Greek, says it doesn't mean "mother."

I mean how far will he go to prove a point? This is why I didn't even care to respond to his last post - it's beyond obvious that he cares more about being right (to the point where he MAKE THINGS UP) than he does about reaching a Truth. It's more important for people to believe what he THINKS is true, then what is actually True. To the point where he basically LIES to get HIS point across. Unreal.

We can deduce Jesus was not disrespecting Mary, based on two things. The first is the context of each time he says "woman", which has already been established as Jesus not being disrespectful. The second is that Jesus kept all of God's Law, he was not a sinner. Among the Law is the commandment "Honor thy father and mother."

If Jesus obeyed these commandments, that means he honored his mother and father. Mary was clearly his mother, therefore Jesus could not have disrespected her or else he would have sinned.

These guys have done more to explain the Greek word used than I can. What else is there to say?

Again, you completely misunderstand what I say. Did Jesus honor Mary? Yes, of course He did. Goodness. I'm not saying He didn't - it would make no sense whatsoever to say he didn't.

THIS is what I am saying:

The ONLY way it MAY have been disrespectful (the ONLY way) is if Jesus considered Mary His mother. But I don't believe He considered her His mother, and thus He was NOT being disrespectful. What I'm trying to get at is this: Jesus not considering Mary His mother.


So again:

​

____________________
____________________

You should be more carful about what you promise:
gynē

Pronunciation

gü-nā' (Key)


Part of Speech

feminine noun


Root Word (Etymology)

Probably from the base of γίνομαι (G1096)
​

TDNT Reference

1:776,134​

Vines

View Entry​

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, mother, or married, or a widow
2) a wife
a) of a betrothed woman

The word here is the same for woman or mother, it just depends on how it is used.

The Term "Mother" or "mētēr" is a privately use term of endearment and would not normally be shared or declared in mixed company. (Kinda like mommy) so this more generic term which can mean mother or "Woman" is used in mixed company.

So, how's bout it? What is a good day to get dunked for you?

1.) You didn't provide a passage in the bible.

2.) For the love of all which is Holy and Good, please tell me you didn't ADD "mother" in that definition yourself.

This is what I get:

1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow

2) a wife

a) of a betrothed woman
​

Link me to where I can see the word "mother" in the definition.

 

[drich0150]

1)Anytime the word: gynē is used it can be translated into any generic derivation or title of the female root.

Any time Christ's words are translated "woman" to describe His Mother the actual Greek word being translated is indeed:gynē

If you want verification then Pick up a lexicon/concordance.

Bullinger's: A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament. Is the reference material I use.

 

[razeontherock]

With all due respect, you're out of line in a few ways:

Even ViaCrucis, which I'm staring to believe may be Greek, says it doesn't mean "mother."

I think he's just a good Bible student, but we do have native Greek speakers on CF. It amazes me the nuance we miss via translation, and this is largely why I made my previous rec to you.

I mean how far will he go to prove a point? This is why I didn't even care to respond to his last post - it's beyond obvious that he cares more about being right (to the point where he MAKE THINGS UP) than he does about reaching a Truth. It's more important for people to believe what he THINKS is true, then what is actually True. To the point where he basically LIES to get HIS point across. Unreal.

Yes, unreal. As in, that is NOT what he did. That is not the way the man operates, and as a non-native English speaker, he made a valid observation. The word refers to "a woman of any age." Nothing about it excludes a Mother, and therefore Strong's is wrong to not have it on it's list. (Many call Strong's "wrong's") And yet it does not specifically denote Mother, which is probably why we don't have it translated as Mother.

Bottom line is nothing about this says Jesus didn't think Mary was His Mother, which is your point. In fact, the whole thrust of the Scripture is that Mary WAS His Mother; what He did, was arrange for her retirement and old folks home, all in that one breath. I'll let you go ahead and wrestle with that idea ...

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

How did the word "mother" end up in the definition above?

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

that is NOT what he did.

That is EXACTLY what he did. HE added that word in there.

Why provide a definition from an online source that one would have to assume he implies as being credible (or else WHY USE IT?) and then add his OWN word in there?

 

[drich0150]

How did the word "mother" end up in the definition above?

I compiled a defination using bullingers and strongs. Why because bullingers is not an online reference material. It is a very old and well respected lexicon and concordance. That is not on line.

 

[drich0150]

That is EXACTLY what he did. HE added that word in there.

Why provide a definition from an on line source that one would have to assume he implies as being credible (or else WHY USE IT?) and then add his OWN word in there?

Again I used a hard reference. One that has the actual Greek words and not the transliterated words. Since I do not have the Greek characters on my key board, I used the transliterated portion of the Strong's and the Bullinger's definitions. The words are the same the transliteration is the same and the definition being represented is the same. So what did i "add?"

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

"You compiled?" Come ON! YOU added the word in there, and then use the word "compiled" to try and make it seem as if you didn't totally try to pass that word off as being PART of the BLB definition. Please!

Anyway, as long as that's out in the open.


Is there a Greek in the house? Someone willing to actually explain if mothers have ever been called "woman." Or if it's respectable to do so? My head would literally spin if the answer to that was "yes." I would not only dunk myself in holy water, but literally back paddle in it for an hour.

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers

46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
​

He completely denied Mary as being His mother. "Who is my mother" He says, and then follows it NOT by pointing to Mary, but rather His disciples.

 

[Hakan101]

The guy needs to be called out for adding that word to the definition. Even ViaCrucis, which I'm staring to believe may be Greek, says it doesn't mean "mother."

I mean how far will he go to prove a point? This is why I didn't even care to respond to his last post - it's beyond obvious that he cares more about being right (to the point where he MAKE THINGS UP) than he does about reaching a Truth. It's more important for people to believe what he THINKS is true, then what is actually True. To the point where he basically LIES to get HIS point across. Unreal.​

What has he made up? I've looked into what he's saying too, and it stands. If you Google search "Did Jesus disrespect his mother?", there are answers to this. Though I think these guys did a great job alone.

Again, you completely misunderstand what I say. Did Jesus honor Mary? Yes, of course He did. Goodness. I'm not saying He didn't - it would make no sense whatsoever to say he didn't.

THIS is what I am saying:

The ONLY way it MAY have been disrespectful (the ONLY way) is if Jesus considered Mary His mother. But I don't believe He considered her His mother, and thus He was NOT being disrespectful. What I'm trying to get at is this: Jesus not considering Mary His mother.

I am sorry, I sincerely do not wish to frustrate you. I think I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. I believe Jesus did recognize Mary as his mother, but is still not disrespecting her when he says "woman." The reason he doesn't refer to her as Mother, like he calls God his Father, is to avoid giving Mary some sort of divine status she was not worthy of.

Besides the passages you've already seen, here's another one.
This is Luke 11:27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” 28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Here a woman praises Mary simply because she is Jesus' mother. But Jesus corrects her, Mary is not blessed merely because she gave birth to Jesus, but anyone who obeys God (which includes Mary), is blessed.

None of this means Jesus didn't recognize Mary as his mother. Jesus knew Mary was far from being God, but Mary raised Jesus, there is no reason to think he wouldn't regard her as his mother.​

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

So what did i "add?"

The word "mother."

Did you copy and past this EXACTLY as is:

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, mother, or married, or a widow
2) a wife
a) of a betrothed woman
​

Yes or no? Or did you ADD the word "mother" in between "whether a virgin" and "or married?"

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Besides the passages you've already seen, here's another one.
This is Luke 11:27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” 28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
.

"A woman called." Remember:

Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts"

 

[Hakan101]

"A woman called." Remember:

Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts"

Can you explain what you mean by this? The context of Isaiah does not conflict with the context that supports Jesus regarding Mary as his mother.