Tell 5 reasons why your way is good

[JackofSpades]

Please describe shortly what is "your way", like "I'm atheist/Christian/theist" and state 5 reasons why it's a good way.

My way is to be spiritual without signing into any religion, I identify as mystic. It's good way because:


1) Spirituality is not limited to priviledged peoples. In history of mysticism, there have been illiterate peasants and educated, powerful peoples alike. It's one of those few fields where people are truely equal.

2) Dimensions of spirit and mind are endless opportunity for great adventures. I still get as excited about some spiritual things as I did 13 years ago (when my journey started).

3) By not limiting my spirituality into context of one religion, I can consider everyone - christians, pagans, you name it - to be my fellow seekers and people from any background can inspire me. I don't feel obliged to judge someone elses way just because it's different than mine.

4) Spirituality is one of few things in life which are not affected by persons age. You can be just as devout at age of 12 or at age of 95.

5) Being a theist, I see god as my company and friend. Relationship with god can be very satisfying and fulfilling element in life.

 

[True Scotsman]

Please describe shortly what is "your way", like "I'm atheist/Christian/theist" and state 5 reasons why it's a good way.

My way is to be spiritual without signing into any religion, I identify as mystic. It's good way because:


1) Spirituality is not limited to priviledged peoples. In history of mysticism, there have been illiterate peasants and educated, powerful peoples alike. It's one of those few fields where people are truely equal.

2) Dimensions of spirit and mind are endless opportunity for great adventures. I still get as excited about some spiritual things as I did 13 years ago (when my journey started).

3) By not limiting my spirituality into context of one religion, I can consider everyone - christians, pagans, you name it - to be my fellow seekers and people from any background can inspire me. I don't feel obliged to judge someone elses way just because it's different than mine.

4) Spirituality is one of few things in life which are not affected by persons age. You can be just as devout at age of 12 or at age of 95.

5) Being a theist, I see god as my company and friend. Relationship with god can be very satisfying and fulfilling element in life.

My "way" is Objectivistm, a philosophy for living a good, fully satisfying life.

1. It's true. It corresponds to reality.

2. It's objective. It is completely reality based. There is no concession to faith, feelings or the imaginary.

3. It's rational. I can prove any part of it. It starts with incontestable axioms and their corollaries and is fully integrated, containing no internal contradictions.

4. It teaches that every person's life is an end in itself and not the means to anyone else's ends. Not any other person's, group's, or supernatural power's. My life belongs to me and is for me to live and enjoy, not to suffer through and sacrifice.

5. It has an objective theory of concepts. First one in the history of the world. It tells me that my mind is competent to know things and that if I make a mistake I have a way of correcting those mistakes. I love the feeling of knowing that my mind is capable of dealing with reality and it is one of the greatest feelings in the world.

6. It has a positive, rational morality. It teaches that the purpose of morality is to guide one to the most successful, fulfilled life possible. It is not for avoiding punishment and death but achieving happiness and life.

 

[Chesterton]

5. It has an objective theory of concepts. First one in the history of the world. It tells me that my mind is competent to know things and that if I make a mistake I have a way of correcting those mistakes.

Your mind perceives a theory which informs you that your mind is competent? Objection, your honor. And a very objective objection, I might add.

 

[agua]

My way is Yahweh's way/ Christianity ( Biblical ).

Yahweh's way is good because

1. It's based on the good for all humans, not only the individual, and is founded upon love, justice, and mercy; which are very important to me.

2. It teaches how to live peacefully, so long as it's up to me, and provides a teacher to instruct me in all matters, a guide Book to study, and a perfect example to follow in Jesus Christ.

3. It rationalises why I yearn for justice in a World that appears unjust, or at least seems incapable of providing a decent system of justice that works.

4. It provides objective methods of agreeable philosophy and thinking regimes that work, and are congruent with reality.

5 It promises eternal life in paradise, and provides the means to gain it.

ETA ops I did 6 not 5

 

[Paradoxum]

By 'good' do you mean meaningful, desire satisfying, moral, correct, or all the above?

I'm Secular Humanist

1) Truth: It tries to avoid magical thinking. To me, living a genuine life without fairy tales (living in truth) is meaningful. No offence.

2) Morality: This morality is concerned about compassion and respect for others as free people.

3) Reason: Basing beliefs on reason and evidence is important.

4) Freedom: No fear of hell, or religious based repressions.

5) Meaning: What makes life meaningful can be based on being with loved ones, making the most out of life, and making the world a better place.

 

[JackofSpades]

By 'good' do you mean meaningful, desire satisfying, moral, correct, or all the above?

Anything really, whatever point of view you prefer. I didn't think about the definition of "good" too much.

1) Truth: It tries to avoid magical thinking. To me, living a genuine life without fairy tales (living in truth) is meaningful. No offence.

Just out of curiosity about definition: if spiritual things are defined to be fairytale material, but they keep happening to me in my real life, does that make me a fairytale character? If it does, no offence taken, I think it would be kind of cool definition.

 

[True Scotsman]

Your mind perceives a theory which informs you that your mind is competent? Objection, your honor. And a very objective objection, I might add.

Did I say anything about perceiving a theory? I don't think I did. I wouldn't make that error. That is concepts 101. We perceive concretes not concepts and principles. Those are the product the conceptual faculty.

 

[Chesterton]

Did I say anything about perceiving a theory? I don't think I did. I wouldn't make that error. That is concepts 101. We perceive concretes not concepts and principles. Those are the product the conceptual faculty.

Then what do we use to assess concepts and principles? Our elbows?

 

[WirSindBettler]

I'm a Christian. I don't need five ways to show it is good, because it is the one way.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

 

[keith99]

I am an agnostic atheist.

I do not claim to have all the answers.

1) Since I make no such claim I can see that which is good in other views, including those of many theists, even Christians.

2) Claiming no god I have no problems because my god demands or has demanded that I consider evil

3) Not being tied to any god I can find the good in all faiths, and can profit by the one good thing in a faith that is otherwise a cesspit.

4) Claiming no divine guidance I can admit my understanding as a child was incomplete or even wrong.

5) If the Christian God is real it will be amusing when I fare better than most Christians if I face his judgment.

 

[Eudaimonist]

True Scotsman has already covered much of what I might say, but (not speaking for him) I'll just add:

1) Having a view that mind and body are integrated, rather than divided into separate spheres, I have healthier views on sexuality than some people. I don't see my body as my inferior "lower nature". Sexuality can be just as "spiritual" and integrated into one's mental life as any other activity.

2) I see something "sacred" in every individual. We are all creative sources of values. Everyone is unique and irreplaceable.

3) My ethics does not see other people as a threat to my existence, since I have no duty to sacrifice for them. However, don't confuse this as a rejection of benevolence. My benevolent acts are fully chosen and done out of genuine caring, not painful duty.

4) My views are awesome enough to support genuinely free and flourishing societies.

5) My path, despite its atheism, is "spiritual" in that it involves gaining an improved vantagepoint on the deep issues of life, leading to open-ended personal growth.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[True Scotsman]

Then what do we use to assess concepts and principles? Our elbows?

I've just said that theories are conceptual in nature and we use our conceptual faculty to do that, not perception. We perceive concretes and then it is the job of the conceptual faculty to identify and integrate this input from the senses into concepts and principles. Again this is really basic stuff here.

It's unclear what your objection is in the first place since all you said was "objection, your honor" without any explanation. It's clear however from your statements that you have not even a rudimentary understanding of what it is you're attacking. You haven't done your homework. By the way, you don't have to call me your honor, just Scotsman will do.

If your objection is to me saying that the mind is competent to deal with reality, and you think otherwise, then how do you know this if your mind is incompetent? Or perhaps you're thinking it is circular to judge our reason using our reason. Since our reasoning faculty is our means of judging anything, it's validity is not in question. You either think our minds are valid or you don't. If they aren't then it is pointless to discuss anything. To claim that our minds are invalid commits the fallacy of the stolen concept since you are using the concept of knowledge while denying its primary and only means.

 

[Wryetui]

My way is Eastern Orthodoxy. Why do I consider my "way" good?

1. It praises the one true God: The Holy Trinity.

2. My church was founded by Christ and His apostles 2000 years ago, and it has remained unchanged since then, being the Church from the beginning.

3. It has a golden tradition, a priceless treasure of teachings taught by hundreds of saints throughout the history, people who dedicated their whole life to Christ and is still leading millions of people to salvation nowadays.

4. It has a response to everything because all the responses were given by God. I know were we come from and how will we end, and what do we have to do to inherit eternal life through Christ.

5. It stays unchanged. Society didn't change the church, in its whole history a lot of atrocities happened to her, the muslims, the roman-catholics, the communists and their militant atheism but they didn't destroyed her. In this century where we think don't know what's true or what isn't, attacked by secularism and depravation, in the Orthodox Church of Christ we find a holy sanctuary, where you find peace and where the evil can't enter. You are home.

 

[JackofSpades]

1) Since I make no such claim I can see that which is good in other views, including those of many theists, even Christians.
.....
3) Not being tied to any god I can find the good in all faiths, and can profit by the one good thing in a faith that is otherwise a cesspit.

I wish more atheists shared this spirit of tolerance

5) If the Christian God is real it will be amusing when I fare better than most Christians if I face his judgment.

Loosely related: I find it fascinating that one of the most well-known public figures of 20th century, who was known to have put teachings of Jesus in practise was hindu (Gandhi).

For me these kind of peoples serve as argument in favor of eclectic religion. Why reject what is good in other faiths?

1) Having a view that mind and body are integrated, rather than divided into separate spheres, I have healthier views on sexuality than some people. I don't see my body as my inferior "lower nature". Sexuality can be just as "spiritual" and integrated into one's mental life as any other activity.

If there is one thing in which I think religious people can learn something important from secular people, it's the unproblematic, non-dualistic view on sexuality.

But, I have to say, this negative and dualistic attitude on sexuality seems to be more of a trademark of monotheistic religions than religions generally. For example, in neopagan community it's quite opposite, sexuality can be celebrated thing in some pagan traditions.

3. It has a golden tradition, a priceless treasure of teachings taught by hundreds of saints throughout the history, people who dedicated their whole life to Christ...

I'm not Eastern Orthodox but I agree of that church being golden warehouse of history of spiritual practise. Christian mystics are among my favorite reading and there is very rich tradition of Christian mysticism in EO church.

What is priceless in having history of multiple generations of practise is that it gives a chance to read texts which are not affected by cultural beliefs of our time.

 

[agua]

Just out of curiosity about definition: if spiritual things are defined to be fairytale material, but they keep happening to me in my real life, does that make me a fairytale character? If it does, no offence taken, I think it would be kind of cool definition.

I think it will mean that you're inside Cool World, with Frank (Brad Pitt), or that Holly has come into the Real World, or....

 

[Wryetui]

I'm not Eastern Orthodox but I agree of that church being golden warehouse of history of spiritual practise. Christian mystics are among my favorite reading and there is very rich tradition of Christian mysticism in EO church.

What is priceless in having history of multiple generations of practise is that it gives a chance to read texts which are not affected by cultural beliefs of our time.

I completely agree with you, Jack. It is important to know that you have an entire history behind your beliefs. To me it feels magical to know that the same things I experience today in the church were experienced by so many other people in the past, and the church isn't temporary, but she travels through time and stays unchanged. That is something that lacks in protestantism and neoprotestantism, and it makes me feel sad.

 

[Paradoxum]

Anything really, whatever point of view you prefer. I didn't think about the definition of "good" too much.

Fair enough.

Just out of curiosity about definition: if spiritual things are defined to be fairytale material, but they keep happening to me in my real life, does that make me a fairytale character? If it does, no offence taken, I think it would be kind of cool definition.

Or that you misunderstand what is happening.

What spiritual things happen to you in real life?

I wish more atheists shared this spirit of tolerance

Many atheists are in favour of religious freedom... tolerance.

Or do you mean that you want us to say more nice things about religion?

I can see good parts in some religions, but I'm generally negative about religion because I think the good can be done without the bad.

 

[JackofSpades]

Or that you misunderstand what is happening.

I've considered that possiblity too.

What spiritual things happen to you in real life?

To name something: visions, voices, phenomenons, stuff like that. Not willing to go into very much detail in this context.

Many atheists are in favour of religious freedom... tolerance.

I'm aware of that. I meant it in sense of general attitude rather than in any particular opinion, hence word "spirit".

Or do you mean that you want us to say more nice things about religion?

Only if you mean it.

I've been thinking that many times when reading keith99's posts before aswell, that's why I wanted to mention it. It was intended as compliment for keith99, not mainly as attack against all others. That was only the secondary purpose

I can see good parts in some religions, but I'm generally negative about religion because I think the good can be done without the bad.

Yeah, thats one way of seeing it. I'm familiar with some religious carbage myself. But I really dunno what to make of it, it's not like I can stop it from happening anyways.

 

[agua]

By 'good' do you mean meaningful, desire satisfying, moral, correct, or all the above?

I'm Secular Humanist

1) Truth: It tries to avoid magical thinking. To me, living a genuine life without fairy tales (living in truth) is meaningful. No offence.

2) Morality: This morality is concerned about compassion and respect for others as free people.

3) Reason: Basing beliefs on reason and evidence is important.

4) Freedom: No fear of hell, or religious based repressions.

5) Meaning: What makes life meaningful can be based on being with loved ones, making the most out of life, and making the world a better place.

I have a question Paradoxum, and usually wouldn't necessarily pursue an answer but this is interesting.

Why did you present your reasons for 1. and 4. as direct oppositions to religion ( esp Christianity with 4. ), rather than on their own merits ?

 

[Emmy]

Dear JackofSpades. I have accepted the 2 Commandments which Jesus gives us in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls and with all our minds. The second is like it: Love our neighbour as we love ourselves." Jesus tells us in verse 40:
" On these 2 Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love,
and God wants loving sons and daughters. That is number 1. The 2. reason is:
" Love covers a multitude of sins, " and that is apparent to all who think about it.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," God will only accept us if we
Repent and follow Jesus as our Saviour. ( that is a third reason) We are told:
" Ask and you shall receive," in Matthew 7: 7-10: we keep asking God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour.
( all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends) We keep asking for, and receiving Love and Joy and share it with our neighbour, easy and straightforward. Number 4: We might stumble and forget at times, but then ask God to forgive us and carry on Loving and Caring.
Number 5 is: Love is very catching, and Christians fight with Love. People around us will treat us the same as we treat people, and here is what Paul tells us in 1) Corinthians: 13:13: Now abides Faith, Hope, and Love, these three: but the greatest of these is LOVE. I say this with love, Jack.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.