Teaching child to scream "You are not my..." doesn't help much.

[keith99]

Based on what? (Honestly curious)

The yelling fire is very outdated and never applied in the daytime.

Go back 100 or more years however and think of a city with mostly wood buildings, little to no street lighting and a nightwatch that is far from a police force and you might begin to see. Oh and of course no phones, no calling 911, you either take action yourself or do nothing.

Fire was a disaster. The whole city could easily go up in flames unless put out quickly. Scream robber or rape and no one responds, they do not want to face a likely armed criminal.

Scream fire and everyone responds. They want the fire out and their house safe. Even those who are unable to help fight a fire will respond, at least to the point of getting up and likely coming out. After all having the house burn down is still better than having the house burn down wiith you in it.

 

[keith99]

Everybody is passing by and thinking: "Stupid hidden camera again!"

Edit: Or next time they see something like this they may think so.

Actually I was wondering about something like that. Something stages often has subtle indicators that it is not real. I wonder if that influences the responce.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Yelling help is ineffectual. Yelling fire would be more likely to get a response.

I would agree.
Based on personal experience ( I see things, haha) I would say that anyone, including a child yelling "fire!" would be much more likely to get a response than essentially anything else. I have seen children yell things for attention that would make me really question the situation if I did not the whole deal (the old "I'm going to get you in trouble with ____[cops/friends/family/neighbors]____ if you don't do [whatever it is]". I really does happen. And therefore, sadly, people are more inclined to believe the adult than the child if they are yelling "help".
That...and "fire" seems to be more immediate to people than some kid yelling something/anything else. For whatever reason you attribute this.

But yelling "fire" is likely to garner enough attention to make the abducter/abuser to at least pause, if not stop, long enough for people to see a problem exists there.


I myself was always told to throw an absolute tantrum and get any and everyones attention within ear-shot if I was to be abducted/etc. Which would have worked seeing how my family never let the kids out of sight in public (and if you purposely hid or something [something kids seem to do a lot], oh ho ho...you were in trouble~).


Just my 2 cents.

 

[keith99]

Yea, yelling fire when there is no fire will work really well. It will firmly place the kid in the category of not being honest and possibly being disturbed.

Adult just needs to rant on about how much trouble the kid is in and appologise to the bystanders.

 

[Cute Tink]

I don't know. I think that people would probably look for the fire and, not seeing one, curse the child and go about their day, but perhaps that's just me being cynical.

And I do agree about a child pointing at someone and telling them to call 911. If there is eye contact, people do seem to react more, I just don't think that someone who is trying to abduct a struggling child is going to give them the time to get eye contact with someone while hauling them away.

 

[visionary]

I don't know. I think that people would probably look for the fire and, not seeing one, curse the child and go about their day, but perhaps that's just me being cynical.

And I do agree about a child pointing at someone and telling them to call 911. If there is eye contact, people do seem to react more, I just don't think that someone who is trying to abduct a struggling child is going to give them the time to get eye contact with someone while hauling them away.

Child screaming... "dial 911 and tell them I am being taken by a stranger.. my name is [....].. '

 

[Cute Tink]

Child screaming... "dial 911 and tell them I am being taken by a stranger.. my name is [....].. '

Again, the problem I see is the child having the presence of mind to actually remember to scream that much and it being intelligible to a random stranger while the kidnapper is trying to cover the kid's mouth. That's a lot of expectation.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Yea, yelling fire when there is no fire will work really well. It will firmly place the kid in the category of not being honest and possibly being disturbed.

Adult just needs to rant on about how much trouble the kid is in and appologise to the bystanders.

Just rationalizing a comment. Like I said at the end, the whole tantrum thing -does- attention.
But in either case, if it is a parent/not obviously a "bad guy", then they are not likely to pay much mind to the child anyway, sadly.

Again, the problem I see is the child having the presence of mind to actually remember to scream that much and it being intelligible to a random stranger while the kidnapper is trying to cover the kid's mouth. That's a lot of expectation.

I agree with this.
Try teaching a kid to yell that much at once...it won't likely work out.

 

[mpok1519]

9 out of 10 times they are (I wonder how many of those 9 times it really wasn't even abuse, because two 15 year olds who dated and had sex would count as being abused by someone they knew), but what about that 1 out of 10? You are just going to stand by and hope it is a custody dispute?

I have wondered this same thing; I once saw a woman carrying a child out of Walmart with her hand over the screaming and crying child's mouth. The woman didn't look very happy.

And I thought to myself, could I have just witnessed a kidnapping?

Or was that mom just trying to get their fit throwing child out of public eye and embarassment?

either way, no, I didn't call the cops. It really just made no sense to do so.

 

[wanderingone]

Think about how you would react if you were walking in a public place, and you heard a child- and only a child, nobody else- yell "fire".

Maybe it's because I've spent too much time in NY, but I would completely ignore it.

IMO if you're going to teach your kid something, it should be along the lines of "help, call 911". But specifically, if the child is being attacked in view of other people, the child should be taught to point to someone and tell them to call 911.

It's very easy for most people to ignore a child yelling, no matter what they are yelling. But it's not easy to ignore anyone who is pointing at you and telling you specifically to call 911.

If you ignore yelling then how would you notice someone yelling specifically 911 over help?

I don't buy the jaded New Yorker thing, since I AM a jaded New Yorker. I may or may not jump in the middle of something, but I have no issue with grabbing a phone (mine or someone else's) and calling 911 to report a questionable bit of drama on such and such a street. ------------

As another poster pointed out I might be inclined to think any outrageous scene is yet another tv moment to teach us how terrified we all should be, but I also am inclined to at the least put in a call for help and make the adult involved aware they are being watched.

I think a lot of people are worried about being "wrong" in their interpretation. Personally if I look like I'm about to do wrong to my kid and someone intervenes, I might be mad for a minute, but in the big picture, I'm glad to know there's someone out there willing to put a tiny bit of themselves out there to look out for someone smaller, weakers etc..

 

[Zebra1552]

Again, the problem I see is the child having the presence of mind to actually remember to scream that much and it being intelligible to a random stranger while the kidnapper is trying to cover the kid's mouth. That's a lot of expectation.

Bite them.

 

[visionary]

Teach them...Kick villian in the shin, poke their eyes out, use the blade of your hand and slash their throat... all the defensive moves a defensive class teachs..

 

[Zebra1552]

Teach them...Kick villian in the shin, poke their eyes out, use the blade of your hand and slash their throat... all the defensive moves a defensive class teachs..

Shin, no. Punch straight out. Most kids are at that height. Works better, whether male or female. Slashing the throat with a hand isn't very effective. Better to chop at the side of the neck with a backhand. Punch to the gut. Hitting on the outside of the leg just above the knee. Radial nerve. Scratch the face.

All said and done, most kids aren't going to remember any of that unless they practice it every week. Adults don't even remember it without training. You really want to protect your kid, enroll them in self defense classes- Krav Maga or my personal favorite, ATA Taekwondo. Or just drill self defense routines at home.

 

[homeofmew]

Yeah looked like a disobedient child for the most part.

 

[visionary]

Yeah looked like a disobedient child for the most part.

my thoughts were wondering .. if I didn't know better.. were along the same lines... so what is a child to do,.. to alert people that this is serious.. and not just rebellion..

 

[Zebra1552]

my thoughts were wondering .. if I didn't know better.. were along the same lines... so what is a child to do,.. to alert people that this is serious.. and not just rebellion..

If I saw a child biting, kicking, punching, and scratching someone I'm pretty sure that'd set off alarm bells in my mind. Just saying.

 

[keith99]

If I saw a child biting, kicking, punching, and scratching someone I'm pretty sure that'd set off alarm bells in my mind. Just saying.

Same here. Kids and Dogs often resist their 'parents', sometimes quite forcefully. But kicking and biting seem to be rare when directed against the parents. Against true outsiders such thiings are permitted, unless their parents have trained them to always hold back.

 

[Schneiderman]

If you ignore yelling then how would you notice someone yelling specifically 911 over help?

I don't buy the jaded New Yorker thing, since I AM a jaded New Yorker. I may or may not jump in the middle of something, but I have no issue with grabbing a phone (mine or someone else's) and calling 911 to report a questionable bit of drama on such and such a street. ------------

As another poster pointed out I might be inclined to think any outrageous scene is yet another tv moment to teach us how terrified we all should be, but I also am inclined to at the least put in a call for help and make the adult involved aware they are being watched.

I think a lot of people are worried about being "wrong" in their interpretation. Personally if I look like I'm about to do wrong to my kid and someone intervenes, I might be mad for a minute, but in the big picture, I'm glad to know there's someone out there willing to put a tiny bit of themselves out there to look out for someone smaller, weakers etc..

I specified that I would ignore someone yelling "fire". If someone yells fire in a public place, my first response will be to look for signs of a fire, and if I see no sign of a fire, I'm not going to be very interested in the person yelling fire. People yell things all the time falsely or for no reason.

As for "not buying the jaded New Yorker thing", ask Kitty Genovese what she thinks about that.

 

[Cute Tink]

Teach them...Kick villian in the shin, poke their eyes out, use the blade of your hand and slash their throat... all the defensive moves a defensive class teachs..

Most of us seem to agree that the kids should struggle as much as possible. I have given my kids specific targets: nose, throat, eyes, groin - the areas that tend to give a stronger reaction to even weaker strikes. I have also told them that any and all strikes they can get in, whether it's kicks and punches or head butts, scratches and bites, they should do anything and everything to resist no matter what.

 

[keith99]

Most of us seem to agree that the kids should struggle as much as possible. I have given my kids specific targets: nose, throat, eyes, groin - the areas that tend to give a stronger reaction to even weaker strikes. I have also told them that any and all strikes they can get in, whether it's kicks and punches or head butts, scratches and bites, they should do anything and everything to resist no matter what.

Eyes are good. If the kid has any power at all knees and ankles are also good.

Most adivice given on possible targets forgets one vital point. The goal is NOT to disable, hurt or 'win' it is to escape. Knees or ankles are great because even slight damage is apt to mean the 'victim' is now the faster.

Now would I go for knees or ankles of a truely confirmed kidnapper? Nope, but my goal would not be to escape, it would be to detain them, and if they choose to not wait peacefully for the police to arrive then any damage done to them is their own fault. Then groin and such comes into play.

EDIT:

One other thing where kids are taught poorly is instilling a total distrust of all strangers. Now instilling proper caution is one thing, total distrust something else. A possible kidnapping is a great example. Assume it is in teh park near my home. There is a childrens area and some sports fields. All a kid needs to do is bite and run. To the kids play area where there are going to be parents or into the middle of the ball game going on.

Distrust those who approach you, but is some threat exists run to some other adult.