Teach Safe Violence

[TranscendHumanity]

Comprehensive sex education has been shown to delay the initiation of sex in teens

Knowledge is power.

 

[Penumbra]

Democracy has a hysterical belief in the futility of violence; which demonstrates an ignorance of history on such a vast scale it is scarcely comprehensible.

Any children of mine will be taught how to fight and, if necessary, to kill.

I mean the ideology of democratic liberalism.

But democratic liberalism is a sweepingly large collection of ideologies, and doesn't have a unified belief about war or violence.

Many democratic countries today have very large military forces, and many of them have used them to full effect.

-Lyn

 

[aandb]

Abstinence only has definitely worked for me, I haven't gotten anyone pregnant and I don't have any STD's.

I'm not abstinent, and I've never gotten pregnant, and I've never gotten an STD. Why? Because I've learned about safe sex. In fact, the only people I know who have gotten pregnant by accident weren't having safe sex.

 

[TranscendHumanity]

But democratic liberalism is a sweepingly large collection of ideologies, and doesn't have a unified belief about war or violence.

As far as individuals go, this is true. But as far as the Official Religion of the American State (i.e., the NY Times) there is a sweeping undercurrent on the futility of violence. On the other hand they are also statist, so it usually winds up being: violence is futile for the individual, only the State can apply violence properly.

 

[Penumbra]

As far as individuals go, this is true. But as far as the Official Religion of the American State (i.e., the NY Times) there is a sweeping undercurrent on the futility of violence. On the other hand they are also statist, so it usually winds up being: violence is futile for the individual, only the State can apply violence properly.

The New York Times is the Offical Religion of the American State? It's circulation is 1 million/day compared to a population of 300 million and is written by only a few hundred people.

If there is an undercurrent of the futility of violence, it is because the country has been in two very long wars now that are not being resolved with any sort of satisfaction, and all of that is an echo of the same thing that happened back in Vietnam. Back when wars did what they were intended to do, like in World War two, the whole country was mobilized, with women building military airplanes because so many of the men were off fighting. It's harder when you're not sure who your enemy is, or what it is.

Democracy doesn't really play into that.

 

[TranscendHumanity]

The New York Times is the Offical Religion of the American State? It's circulation is 1 million/day compared to a population of 300 million and is written by only a few hundred people.

Yes, and it is read by the people who actually run the country.

 

[Penumbra]

Yes, and it is read by the people who actually run the country.

So are a lot of things.

I'm not saying it's not quite influential, but to call it the Official Religion of the American State is poetic falsehood.

Anyway, this discussion is getting off topic of the thread.

 

[david_x]

I'm not abstinent, and I've never gotten pregnant, and I've never gotten an STD. Why? Because I've learned about safe sex. In fact, the only people I know who have gotten pregnant by accident weren't having safe sex.

I'm not saying that safe sex is ineffective. Someone said that abstinence was ineffective, hilarious.

 

[aandb]

I'm not saying that safe sex is ineffective. Someone said that abstinence was ineffective, hilarious.

It's not ineffective as a method of birth control. However, for those who choose to not abstain, abstinence is generally ineffective.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Here is just a very odd idea.

It is argued that:

- we ought to teach safe sex in schools because if we don't there will simply be kids having unsafe sex, thus being more apt to contract disease or have unwanted pregnancy.

- sex is natural and beautiful and shouldn't be treated as a dirty phenomenon.

- religious conservatives are trying to get their agenda into school, and essentially violating the rights of everyone else and making us look like we live in the stone age by trying to teach stuff like 'abstinence only,' which simply have not proven to be effective.

What if we had a system that essentially regulated violence between students, and emphasized what 'honorable fighting' is, and how to control violent altercations so that no one is seriously hurt.

Teach kids mixed martial arts and offer programs at schools that would allow teachers to regulate and observe fighting; much as a school passes out condoms, we could have regulatory bodies to insure the safety of students who desired to fight to settle a conflict.

Whereas:

- violence is going to happen, anyways, and is more likely to have negative repercussions if we do not insure it is done ethically and safely between consenting parties who have an understanding of how to avoid permanent damage.

- violence is natural and beautiful. The fighting entertainment industry rakes in billions across the globe because people are thrilled and excited to see physical combat.

When done right, it can be. Sparring, if you are trained, is not that bad. But remember, we do not allow acting out in anger, except in defense. Mutual fighting, as opposed to two people wanting to hurt each other, is a great extracurricular activity, more so than even sex is. But your comparison is somewhat lacking. Handing out condoms is like handing out boxing gloves, not teaching them how to fight or setting up stages for them to do so.

- Liberals are trying to manipulate our schools with 'pacifism only' policies; they have gone to such extents as to create 'zero tolerance' policies concerning violence, even if it is done by two consenting people. They are trying to erect their godless religion of humanism.

You do realize that the Bible had a lot of zero-tolerance policies. That being said, the majority of zero-tolerance policies are idiotic, and erected by idiots on both sides of the political spectrum. And where did the 'godless religion' come from. I thought we were talking about fighting in schools...

And maybe we can all wonder why the liberals took boxing class out of traditional education.

There are many people on this forum so apt to blame anything that seems wrong on liberals, even when it is just as common in republicans. If you are going to be making such claims, then back them up. And remember, there is a vast difference between saying a liberal did something, and a liberal did something because he was a liberal. Here is an example of the two (for comparison only).

Sanford is a republican who cheated on his wife.
Sanford cheated on his wife because he is a republican.

 

[david_x]

It's not ineffective as a method of birth control. However, for those who choose to not abstain, abstinence is generally ineffective.

Abstinence is not effective unless you're abstanate? I would agree with that...

 

[lawtonfogle]

...you really think the problem was abstinence?

From a Christian perspective, no. The problem comes from all those people who have deviated from God's original plan. You see, no sex before marriage is only half of God's original plan, and the only half churches seem to teach. The other half, which is seen by so few limits on marriage age, is for us to marry soon after our sex drive kicks in. This is reiterated in the New Testament by Paul reaffirming it is better to marry than to burn with the flames of passion. Yet, in society, even what is considered 'Godly Christian values', marriage is supposed to come late. As in, go to college, graduate, get a stable job, then start thinking about marriage late, which can very well take a decade to kick in. I have some friend who got married young (the older wasn't even of legal drinking age), and they are often viewed as getting married early, not just by the secular community, but by the Christian community, even though they were only following Paul's advice.

So no, the problem is not the result of abstinence, but of abstinence and the withholding of physical intimacy for many years after the drive for it develops.

 

[aandb]

Abstinence is not effective unless you're abstanate? I would agree with that...

It's just like the stats for failure on condom use... the majority of failures when it comes to condoms is simply failure to use them.

 

[david_x]

It's just like the stats for failure on condom use... the majority of failures when it comes to condoms is simply failure to use them.

So you're trying to say that it's a human error? That people forget to be abstinate?

 

[lawtonfogle]

I'm not saying that safe sex is ineffective. Someone said that abstinence was ineffective, hilarious.

Ineffective at what? The best way to not get an STD or pregnant, is for you (be you male or female) to stay close as you can to you daddy while he carries around a loaded shot gun.

Abstinence stops STDs from consensual sexual relationships, only if combined with a proper education (well, abstinence from all physical contact needs not the education), but even it cannot prevent all possible ways of getting pregnant or catching an STD, which many churches would do well to remember so they are not to quick to judge a rape victim.

On the other hand, teaching of abstience, as opposed to following abstinence, is far far worse in effectiveness of preventing STDs and getting pregnant. Yes, if everyone followed it it would stop all STDs (remember, if everyone is following it, no rape as well), but that is like saying that playing the lottery is a smart way to make money, all you have to do is guess the right number each time.

 

[lawtonfogle]

So you're trying to say that it's a human error? That people forget to be abstinate?

Hormones can be a very powerful force, even more so to the one it catches by surprise.

 

[aandb]

So you're trying to say that it's a human error? That people forget to be abstinate?

It's human error to forget to use condoms. It's a choice not to be abstinent.

 

[Gishin]

Martial arts programs, football, greco roman wrestling, dodgeball, tag, paintball, waterguns....

I think we have safe violence well integrated already.

 

[Steezie]

...you really think the problem was abstinence?

I felt depressed and lonely when I was abstinent, then I engaged in intimate actives including but not limited to sex and those feelings started going away. Before I started being intimate, I had serious problems with self-image and self-confidence.

Intimacy wasn't the cure-all for my problems, but it went a long way towards helping.

 

[david_x]

I felt depressed and lonely when I was abstinent, then I engaged in intimate actives including but not limited to sex and those feelings started going away. Before I started being intimate, I had serious problems with self-image and self-confidence.

Intimacy wasn't the cure-all for my problems, but it went a long way towards helping.

Cause sex is the healthy way to deal with depression and self-confidence?