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Ringo84

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What does everyone think of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, the largest "Christian" television network?

Personally, I think that they are crooks (can I say that?). It's pretty obvious that Paul and Jan Crouch aren't in the ministry for God, but for money.
Ringo
 
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ACADEMIC

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What does everyone think of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, the largest "Christian" television network?

Personally, I think that they are crooks (can I say that?). It's pretty obvious that Paul and Jan Crouch aren't in the ministry for God, but for money.
Ringo

TBN was integral to my coming to the Lord in 1985.

That said, it has since then grievously plummeted and plummeted. :cry:
 
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I don't tend to think they're in it for the money, for the most part. It takes a lot of money to run a TV ministry. There may be various marketing things they do to make their ends meet, but on the whole I don't think that's what most of them are about.

I do, however, think a lot of them are in it for the personal PR. It's a lot the same way you see everyone at the bigger churches wanting to be on the worship team or do special music, but the Prison Ministry can't get anyone to serve.
 
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Carey

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But the many preachers and Pastors that are spreading the "Gospel"
or Good news of Christ died for our sins and is returning soon is an awsome thing and helping fulfill prophecy by getting that message out to millions maybe billions of people who have never heard the Good news which is what the word Gospel means
 
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Ringo84

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TBN was integral to my coming to the Lord in 1985.

That said, it has since then grievously plummeted and plummeted. :cry:
They might not have started out for the money, but it's all about money now. I don't think I've ever seen a "Christian" network as blatantly greedy as TBN.
Ringo
 
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Ringo84

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I don't tend to think they're in it for the money, for the most part. It takes a lot of money to run a TV ministry. There may be various marketing things they do to make their ends meet, but on the whole I don't think that's what most of them are about.

I do, however, think a lot of them are in it for the personal PR. It's a lot the same way you see everyone at the bigger churches wanting to be on the worship team or do special music, but the Prison Ministry can't get anyone to serve.
Well, TBN might actually do some good in the world. But I think that their shameless greed eclipses it.

I thought I remember Paul Crouch saying that they had paid everything off. I realize that networks cost money, but even PBS doesn't beg for money like TBN.

And it's not just the begging. Their entire theology revovles around money. They seem to think that if we give enough money to a less than reputable "Christian" television network, that God will just shower his blessings on us. The prosperity gospel is fallacious in many regards.

I just get a really bad vibe from Paul and Jan Crouch....
Ringo
 
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Ringo84

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But the many preachers and Pastors that are spreading the "Gospel"
or Good news of Christ died for our sins and is returning soon is an awsome thing and helping fulfill prophecy by getting that message out to millions maybe billions of people who have never heard the Good news which is what the word Gospel means
I question whether they're really getting the real gospel out or the "God wants us to be rich" gospel.

As I said to someone else, I do think that TBN might actually do some good around the world. But their greed eclipses any good they might do.
Ringo
 
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Carey

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many preachers focus on different thimgs.

But God does want us to be rich if our desire to be rich is so we can help others.

I like Perry Stone who Focuses on Prophecy.

I like Johns Hagee who focuses on moral values and Loving Israel.

But some may like the firiy stile of Paula White or Jentzen Franklin

But all preach Christ died for our sins and is coming back to rule the earth and that is the Gospel(good news)
 
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Ringo84

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Yes, I can. With the help of others who have written about the Crouches online, I can put together a slam dunk case against them. Someone has to - these people have been manipulating desperate people into giving money they can't afford to them for years. It's about time that somebody says "enough".

In my opinion, Paul and Jan Crouch's faith is one of convenience. As long as they can make a quick buck off of invoking God's name and pretending to believe in Him, they'll continue to play the God card. It's likely that if they hadn't had so much success using religion to earn money for themselves for so many years, they would have moved on to something else.

They stand in front of the cameras on their television network, preaching their fallacious "prosperity gospel". Cherry-picking verses from the Bible and badly twisting them to fit their own needs. Pretending to speak in tongues and "heal" people so that the phones will start ringing and the donations pour in. As someone who watches old shows from Robert Tilton's - a proven huckster - ministry (because of the Farting Preacher series), I can personally attest that Paul and Jan Crouch's tactics are identical to the Bakkers and Don Stewart and all the other sheister preachers from thge 1980s.

If you're not convinced about the Crouch's horrible misrepresentations of Bible verses, read this excerpt from a paper written by Jackie Alnor of Moriel Ministries (this is not my work):


"But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred." -- Mark 4:8

This is from the Lord's parable of the seeds that were sown in various kinds of soil, some bearing fruit and others dying. The parable from which Avanzini lifts his "give to get rich" formula condemns him when it's read in its context. Jesus interprets the meaning of the sower and the seed and the ground. In verse 14, He said, "The sower sows the word." So, the seed Jesus was referring to was NOT money -- it is the Word of God.

The seed of the word when it is sown on thorny ground endures only a short time until "the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful" Mark 4:19.

This is Avanzini's fate, unless he repents, as he is deceived by the desire for riches and the same fate will be shared by the spiritually blinded people who follow him into the pit.

In verse 20, we're told about the true nature of the 30-60-100 fold return. It is not a financial harvest, but a spiritual one. "But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred."

How can seed be interpreted to mean money? What a perversion of scripture! Jesus made it quite clear that money was something that the world values, but has no value to God.

"So they brought it. And He said to them, 'Whose image and inscription is this?' They said to Him, 'Caesar's.' And Jesus answered and said to them, 'Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.' And they marveled at Him." 52

Jesus is certainly not demanding a taxation upon His people of the very thing that Caesar wants. We as believers give our lives to Him -- and not just 10% of it -- He gets it all and then He meets our needs according to His will for each of us as we walk by His Spirit. Whatever He puts into our hands is His -- all of it. And the heart of a true follower of Christ is generous and giving. They give not expecting anything in return and God keeps them and provides for their needs. They are not worldly or materialistic, but go as far as their provisions allow. When God calls them to do something, He equips and provides and is in control of their pocketbooks. In fact, God will sometimes utilize their poverty or their abundance as a tool for directing them and telling them to stop or to go ahead according to His wishes.

TBN's doctrine of "give to get" is a perversion of the Bible verse: "But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver."53

The apostle Paul was encouraging the Corinthians and all believers to be generous. If people are stingy, they're not going to be rewarded by God. This was not given as a club to compel people to empty their pockets. He made that clear when he said "God loves a cheerful giver."

The Crouches and the other speakers at the Praise-a-Thons corrupt the word of God to raise money. They justify it by saying that, 'it works.' The fact that it works makes them believe that it's true. But it works for them, but not for the donors. They may find some exceptions who testify of "financial miracles," but most are still waiting for the manifestation of TBN's promises.

Jesus told us to do good and share with those in need who are worse off than ourselves. That is part of our Christian service. He explained it like this:

"But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil."54

God does reward His children for their generosity, but as He said, "hoping for nothing in return." As soon as a selfish motive is introduced into a Christian's giving, that actually prevents the blessing from occurring. TBN is robbing people of their reward when they encourage greed. And exhorting people to eagerly pursue riches sets them up for a fall. The Apostle Paul put it this way:

"But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition."

I like how the famous evangelist Charles Finney spelled out the difference in the attitude of a true believer and a false one in his writing, "True & False Conversion." Showing some similarities between true saints and false ones, he wrote, "They may both love the Bible -- the true saint because it is God's truth. He delights in it, and feasts his soul on it. The deceived person loves the Bible because he thinks it is in his own favor, and sees it as the plan for fulfilling his own hopes."56

This is the wrong attitude promoted by TBN. Use the Bible to accomplish your own purposes and get healthy, wealthy, and wise in your own eyes thereby. The Bible becomes a tool for attaining your own selfish desires.

The poor donors who are looking for a financial blessing after paying TBN instead of their creditors have believed TBN's preachers that they will become rich because its their right as a child of God. They want to cash in on the "great end-time wealth transfer" that Avanzini promised them.

"It would be nothing for God to give a hundred thousand dollars to a person," Avanzini told his desperate TV audience. "Why, a bank could do that; a lottery could do that and greater than a lottery has come. His name is Jesus and he can give us anything that the world could do, he would do."57 In other messages he has compared God to other industrial giants claiming, "a greater than General Motors is come;58 a greater than Ford Motor is come;59 a greater than Citibank has come."60

It is a known fact that the biggest buyers of lottery tickets are the ones who can least afford it, but who are hoping for that one lucky windfall. This is the same measure of desperation that drives many of TBN's donors to listen to the talk of giving to get. This is also why it carries over well into the third world nations who look at Americans and desire what we have. They're made to believe that if they do what we do, they'll get what we got. Contrary to some critics of the prosperity gospel, who say it wouldn't fly in the third world, it does fly -- right in the face of God Almighty!

"It is a common characteristic of false teachers to have false promises," noted evangelist Greg Laurie, whose "Harvest Crusades" air regularly on the Trinity Broadcasting Network. "They promise that God will prosper you. 'Oh,' they say, 'if you will send in your gift right now we will pray the hundred-fold blessing upon you.' You've seen these guys -- 'God's revealed to me he's going to give a hundred fold blessing, so if you sow $10 he'll give you the hundred-fold blessing and multiply it. If you sow a hundred you'll get even more.' Interesting, though, 'if God's going to give you this blessing, first you have to give to me,' the false teachers say. It's a false message because you should never give to get because it's a wrong motive, going back to Cain."61


If you've read other posts of mine on these forums, you know that I'm a strong supporter of interpreting the Bible for yourself - within reason. The Crouches abuse this privilege by badly perverting the Bible's message for their own benefit.

Paul Crouch has even admitted to his own greed. Consider this authentic quote from a 1991 Praise-A-Thon: "Oh here come the critics! 'Here comes the pitch. Crouch is after your money.' Yes, I am! Hear it, devil! Hear it, press! Hear it, everybody! We're after money -- for one reason -- that this voice can be amplified a million more times. That this gospel will be preached in the world."

Yeah, "so the gospel will be preached to the world". The gospel of greed.

It is my opinion that TBN's version of Christianity is a perversion - a sick mirror image - of what Christianity is really about. And I'm not even the kind of person who says that often (I realize that I sound like some kind of fundamentalist). Their manipulation, their outright greed, their twisting of scripture makes me sick. And that's the truth. The best thing that could happen for Christianity these days would be TBN going off the air. Permanently.

If you want to read the article: http://www.moriel.org/discernment/tbn_and_root_af_all_evil.htm.

For even more information:
http://www.trinityfi.org/
http://www.ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/F_SumRpt.asp?EIN=952844062
Ringo
 
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Ringo84

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many preachers focus on different thimgs.

But God does want us to be rich if our desire to be rich is so we can help others.

I like Perry Stone who Focuses on Prophecy.

I like Johns Hagee who focuses on moral values and Loving Israel.

But some may like the firiy stile of Paula White or Jentzen Franklin

But all preach Christ died for our sins and is coming back to rule the earth and that is the Gospel(good news)
Well, the Bible also says:

"It is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven".

I think that God wants us to be happy and secure. But rich? I'm not sure about that. Paul and Jan Crouch think that being a Christian is all about getting rich.
Ringo
 
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babygurl2006

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many preachers focus on different thimgs.

But God does want us to be rich if our desire to be rich is so we can help others.

I like Perry Stone who Focuses on Prophecy.

I like Johns Hagee who focuses on moral values and Loving Israel.

But some may like the firiy stile of Paula White or Jentzen Franklin

But all preach Christ died for our sins and is coming back to rule the earth and that is the Gospel(good news)
amen brother i remeber my daddy watching him every sunday night before the night service, i like john haggee to this day:)-glory and honor to his name
 
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Carey

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amen brother i remeber my daddy watching him every sunday night before the night service, i like john haggee to this day:)-glory and honor to his name
LOL
someone will give you a hard time cause it looked like you said glory and HONOR to John Hagees name.

I know what you meant but watch someone will want to argue with you .
That comes from the devil spirit messing with them
God bless,
carey
 
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ACADEMIC

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i like john haggee to this day:)-glory and honor to his name

Hagee drew $540,000 in compensation, as well as an additional $302,005 in compensation for his position as president of Cornerstone Church, according to GETV's tax statements.

He also received $411,561 in benefits from GETV, including contributions to a retirement package for highly paid executives the IRS calls a "rabbi trust," so named because the first beneficiary of such an irrevocable trust was a rabbi.

The John Hagee Rabbi Trust includes a $2.1 million 7,969-acre ranch outside Brackettville, with five lodges, including a "main lodge" and a gun locker. It also includes a manager's house, a smokehouse, a skeet range and three barns.

Taken together, his payment package, $842,005 in compensation and $414,485 in benefits, was one of the highest, if not the highest, pay package for a nonprofit director in the San Antonio area in 2001.

Hagee's compensation was among the highest pay packages for television evangelists in 2001, according to IRS 990 filings.

Paul Crouch, president of California-based Trinity Christian Center of Santa Ana, received $403,700. His wife, Janice Crouch, earned $347,500 as the vice president for the organization, which broadcasts sermons nationally on the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

For complete article see: http://www.rickross.com/reference/tv_preachers/tv_preachers7.html

And is salary has only been rising:

According to the latest GuideStar.org tax return (2003 return, filed on 11/15/04), Pastor Hagee was paid $371,000 as Senior Pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio Texas (pg. 19), and $949,000 as President of Global Evangelism Television (G.E.T.) (pg. 4). This is over $1 million from donors who intended the money to go into building God's kingdom. Please note that Pastor Hagee specifies that he works, on average, 16 hrs per week at G.E.T., which works out to over $1,000 per hour.

Also see http://www.prettygoodnews.com/form_990/hagee_spreadsheet.xls
 
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Carey

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Hagee drew $540,000 in compensation, as well as an additional $302,005 in compensation for his position as president of Cornerstone Church, according to GETV's tax statements.

He also received $411,561 in benefits from GETV, including contributions to a retirement package for highly paid executives the IRS calls a "rabbi trust," so named because the first beneficiary of such an irrevocable trust was a rabbi.

The John Hagee Rabbi Trust includes a $2.1 million 7,969-acre ranch outside Brackettville, with five lodges, including a "main lodge" and a gun locker. It also includes a manager's house, a smokehouse, a skeet range and three barns.

Taken together, his payment package, $842,005 in compensation and $414,485 in benefits, was one of the highest, if not the highest, pay package for a nonprofit director in the San Antonio area in 2001.

Hagee's compensation was among the highest pay packages for television evangelists in 2001, according to IRS 990 filings.

Paul Crouch, president of California-based Trinity Christian Center of Santa Ana, received $403,700. His wife, Janice Crouch, earned $347,500 as the vice president for the organization, which broadcasts sermons nationally on the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

For complete article see: http://www.rickross.com/reference/tv_preachers/tv_preachers7.html
why is it bad for someone to make more money than the average person?
 
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ACADEMIC

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why is it bad for someone to make more money than the average person?

The point is he makes several times more from donated ministry funds than any other ministry executive.

If you as an average person want to take part of your average income and give it into Hagee's income, be my guest.

Otherwise, I can point you toward millions of really impoverished people who are watching their children die for lack of 12 cents of food per day.

2Co 8:13 Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality.
2Co 8:14 At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality,
2Co 8:15 as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."
 
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Cajun Huguenot

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What does everyone think of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, the largest "Christian" television network?

Personally, I think that they are crooks (can I say that?). It's pretty obvious that Paul and Jan Crouch aren't in the ministry for God, but for money.
Ringo

You think more highly of them than I do. There are good things that appear there from time to time, but most of it is ... ahhh :sigh: . Mom always said if I can't say some thing good, then I need to keep quite, so that is all I can say.

In Christ,
Kenith
 
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Carey

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The point is he makes several times more from donated ministry funds than any other ministry executive.

If you as an average person want to take part of your average income and give it into Hagee's income, be my guest.

Otherwise, I can point you toward millions of really impoverished people who are watching their children die for lack of 12 cents of food per day.

2Co 8:13 Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality.
2Co 8:14 At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality,
2Co 8:15 as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."
I dont think that a preacher that has that kinda money continueing to take more .
But what his ministry does for the most part helps spread the Gospel.
So i tend to find the Good in things.
I am not a jealous pesimist.
 
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Ringo84

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You think more highly of them than I do. There are good things that appear there from time to time, but most of it is ... ahhh :sigh: . Mom always said if I can't say some thing good, then I need to keep quite, so that is all I can say.

In Christ,
Kenith
I doubt it. I HATE them with a passion. I know it's unchristian-like, but I can't help it. But I'm glad that there are people out there that aren't deceived. It actually makes me feel better.
Ringo
 
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