Tatoos, Piercings, Christian Grunge, etc. - do they have their place?

[holyrokker]

Context is very important.
Leviticus 19:26-28

You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes. You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard. You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the LORD.

From John Wesley's Commentary on the Bible

The corners of your heads - That is your temples, ye shall not cut off the hair of your heads round about your temples. This the Gentiles did, either for the worship of their idols, to whom young men used to consecrate their hair, being cut off from their heads, as Homer, Plutarch and many others write; or in funerals or immoderate mournings, as appears from Isa 15:2 Jer 48:37. And the like is to be thought concerning the beard or the hair in the corner, that is, corners of the beard. The reason then of this prohibition is because God would not have his people agree with idolaters, neither in their idolatries, nor in their excessive sorrowing, no nor so much as in the appearances of it.
Cuttings in your flesh - Which the Gentiles commonly did both in the worship of their idols, and in their solemn mournings.

Matthew Henry Commentary

IV. A law against the superstitious usages of the heathen, Leviticus 19:26-28....The rites and ceremonies by which they expressed their sorrow at their funerals... Leviticus 19:28. They must not make cuts or prints in their flesh for the dead; for the heathen did so to pacify the infernal deities they dreamt of, and to render them propitious to their deceased friends.

These are hardly "liberal" theologians attempting to "water-down" the Gospel to make it more appealing.

 

[holyrokker]

HolyRokker,

It also doesn't say anything about doing marijuana. "Wait", you say - "that one is obvious because of Biblical principle!" Precisely!! Though the Word of God covers everything, it does not address everything specifically. Let's be very careful not to ignore principles - and while we are at it - a very important thing called associations (Mr. ElderMike and youself, want to disregard the issue of tattoos with association with the dead and pagan worship. I do not see that as consistent with Scripture.)

By the way, Eph. 5 does tell me to "prove what is acceptable to the Lord." And it does tell me, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Food for thought. I will talk more about this later...

Marijuana is a good example. It is a activity, similar to drunkeness, that is an issue of conduct. It is part of that "unfruitful works of darkness".

Again - tattoos are not an issue of conduct.

 

[Oklahoman]

Marijuana is a good example. It is a activity, similar to drunkeness, that is an issue of conduct. It is part of that "unfruitful works of darkness".

Again - tattoos are not an issue of conduct.

Tattooing is an action that becomes permanent.

 

[holyrokker]

Never mind.

 

[eldermike]

ElderMike,

I don't want to speak down to you especially since I could be as old as your oldest. But... you missed the point. I am sorry that we have had these many posts on this thread and only now is someone explaining to you that we are not talking about whether tattoos, piercings, grunge music, etc. are acceptable for the unsaved. We expect unsaved sinners to act like unsaved sinners. I am SO sorry that you didn't catch that at the very beginning!!! :o We are actually talking about those who have been "called out of darkness into his marvelous light!" - 1 Peter 2:9 We are talking about those who have been called to walk in that light - Eph. 5:8. Surely, you would agree that one who has been made a new creature should live like one.

No, we are not called to be Pharisees, but nor are we called to be Do-as-you-please (oh, that is good - I need to copyright that! ) I never want to add to God's Word, but nor do I want to ignore precepts or principles that demand something from me. Boy, I hope that clears things up...

There is no way to do this in other words.

Why not do what you think pleases God, when you get that done tell me what I need to do. I am guessing you got work to do before you get to me.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

This is not an official mod hat. I am not assigned to this forum. Pay no attention to the M next to my name; this is only me as a regular poster stating my opinion in this thread.

Can we not have a flamewar please? If you disagree, just say you disagree, and why. If you think someone has violated a CF rule, don't say so, just report it.

Remember--attack the issue, not the person.

That's all.

 

[sealacamp]

There is no way to do this in other words.

Why not do what you think pleases God, when you get that done tell me what I need to do. I am guessing you got work to do before you get to me.

Matthew 7:3-5

These are the words of our Lord. They are applicable to us all no matter what our station.

“And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying to your friend, ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.

Sealacamp

 

[BlackSabb]

This is not an official mod hat. I am not assigned to this forum. Pay no attention to the M next to my name; this is only me as a regular poster stating my opinion in this thread.

Can we not have a flamewar please? If you disagree, just say you disagree, and why. If you think someone has violated a CF rule, don't say so, just report it.

Remember--attack the issue, not the person.

That's all.

Hey, no problem. In fact, I'm about to do that right now.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Healthy debate is allowed, and healthy debate means talking about issues, not other people. I won't address specifics, since this is not a forum I'm assigned to.

 

[DeaconDean]

Mod Hat On!

Sherman, set the way back machine to two weeks ago.

​

Over the last few pages, this thread has degraded quite a bit.

I am closing this thread temporarily whilest I do some Staff Clean up/editing of some posts.

If you have a post disappear, do not worry. If there is something wrong with it, I shall let you know.

When I am done, I will re-open this thread.
​

Mod Hat Off!
​

God Bless

Till all are one.​

 

[DeaconDean]

Mod Hat On!​

​

Sherman, set the way back machine to two weeks ago.​

Now I have deleted several posts that were "Off Topic" for this thread.​

The rules state:​

Disruptive Behavior

You will not disrupt the peace and harmony of the site. Disruptive behavior includes, but is not limited to, the rehashing of alleged grievances or disputes; publicly complaining about posts or threads submitted in forums throughout the site; or ranting about Christian Forums or its staff.

Off-topic
Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose (forum-specific guidelines will determine what is and is not relevant to that forum); submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion.​

Link

This thread was getting severally off topic.​

If you had a post that was deleted, it was because of this reason.​

Peoples convictions on these issues run deep. While some may not have a problem with it, some do. We will not all agree.​

So I ask you to respect the individual. Even though you may disagree with their standpoint, reply to the post and not the poster.​

If this thread gets off topic and out of control again, it may be closed permanantly.​

I am now reopening this thread, pleae heed my warning.​

Mod Hat Off!​

God Bless​

Till all are one.​

 

[holyrokker]

DeaconDean,

Thank you. I know it's time consuming.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

I have known several brothers in Christ with tats. They had them before. I am open minded to afterwards tats. I wouldnt do it myself however.

 

[Oklahoman]

Friends,

We have gotten off on one area - tattoos. The point of this thread was not to grind an axe on tattoos or piercings, etc. The point was to examine whether we need to participate in things of this world to reach the world. For instance... Are bikers the only ones who can reach bikers? Are rappers the only ones who can reach rappers? Are exhibitionists the only ones that can reach exhibitionists. Okay... you get the point. Is it necessary for us to use wordly or earthly means to reach the lost? Is that what Paul was saying in 1 Corinthians 9? We may have already tapped this thread out, but that was the point for this thread. Have a great day!!

 

[Hagios17]

Allow me to welcome you!

I think what Jesus said about eating food might be applicible here.

 

[BereanTodd]

Friends,

We have gotten off on one area - tattoos. The point of this thread was not to grind an axe on tattoos or piercings, etc. The point was to examine whether we need to participate in things of this world to reach the world. For instance... Are bikers the only ones who can reach bikers? Are rappers the only ones who can reach rappers? Are exhibitionists the only ones that can reach exhibitionists. Okay... you get the point. Is it necessary for us to use wordly or earthly means to reach the lost? Is that what Paul was saying in 1 Corinthians 9? We may have already tapped this thread out, but that was the point for this thread. Have a great day!!

The question that would follow then would be "are tattoos/piercings something inherantly 'of this world' as you term it, or are they acceptable and in and of themselves neutral forms of expression that may be acceptable for Christians who feel led to express themselves through."

 

[Oklahoman]

The question that would follow then would be "are tattoos/piercings something inherantly 'of this world' as you term it, or are they acceptable and in and of themselves neutral forms of expression that may be acceptable for Christians who feel led to express themselves through."

With all due respect, that is not the point of the thread, but allow me to use a question to answer your question: Is there anything "neutral" for a Christian? Does not God's Word say in Col 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." Paul also declares in 1 Cor 10:31 "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink , or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." I think music, dress, close associations, affiliations, you name it - ought to be considered in their relation to Him who should have all preeminence. May God help us to walk in holiness.

But back on point: Does God want us to act like the world to reach the world?

 

[eldermike]

Friends,

We have gotten off on one area - tattoos. The point of this thread was not to grind an axe on tattoos or piercings, etc. The point was to examine whether we need to participate in things of this world to reach the world. For instance... Are bikers the only ones who can reach bikers? Are rappers the only ones who can reach rappers? Are exhibitionists the only ones that can reach exhibitionists. Okay... you get the point. Is it necessary for us to use wordly or earthly means to reach the lost? Is that what Paul was saying in 1 Corinthians 9? We may have already tapped this thread out, but that was the point for this thread. Have a great day!!

It might be helpful if you would post some ideas on what a Christians looks like, how they dress and such.

Your post makes no sense to me, it a dog that will not hunt. An exhibitionists has a mental problem - a biker has just dropped out of your world, he/she is not crazy.

We are called to go into the hedges and byways of the world. This may come as a suprise but He's called bikers to go back into the biker community to witness for Him. Are these saved bikers living like the world............NO!, they are doing what God has called them to do.

God can and will put us in the belly of a fish to get his point across on what he's called us to do. I know men who you might call wordly who have been in the fish, they tried your world, but God called them to a different ministry, to talk to people that we Christians hate. Just like Jonah they went the wrong way, at first, but then they went back to where they were called.

Back to my question: Did Jonah do the right thing?
It's funny to me that he walked a day into a city of his enemy and stood and said "in 40 days, you are all dead"...........would you do that?

 

[holyrokker]

Friends,
The point was to examine whether we need to participate in things of this world to reach the world. For instance... Are bikers the only ones who can reach bikers? Are rappers the only ones who can reach rappers? ..

I am not a biker. I don't need to be a biker to talk to a biker about Christ.

I also don't need to be a Mexican to reach a Mexican for Christ. But if I feel God has called me to minister to people in Mexico, I'd better learn the language and culture. I'd better learn to eat the food, and the "does and don'ts" of the culture. I'd better learn the appropriate bribe for a Mexican police officer, etc.

In other words, if God calls me to minister to a particular culture, I need to become part of that culture.

Now, if I am in Mexico, ministering to Mexican people, and I come across someone from, say Japan, I don't need to "become Japanese" to share the gospel with that Japanese man.

 

[BereanTodd]

With all due respect, that is not the point of the thread, but allow me to use a question to answer your question: Is there anything "neutral" for a Christian? Does not God's Word say in Col 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." Paul also declares in 1 Cor 10:31 "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink , or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." I think music, dress, close associations, affiliations, you name it - ought to be considered in their relation to Him who should have all preeminence. May God help us to walk in holiness.

But back on point: Does God want us to act like the world to reach the world?

There are greys in the world. There are those things God says we should not do. There are those things that God said we should. Then there are areas where God is silent and the act in and of itself is not bad or good.

There is nothing inherantly worldly about tattoos. A tattoo can be a wonderful expression of our faith and love and life. The questions we must ask are "what is the content of the tattoo" and "what is the intent of the heart in getting that tattoo?"

Similarly for body piercing. How is body piercing any more or less sinful than any other form of jewelry? It isn't. Again it comes down to the heart attitudes and intentions behind getting these things.