Tarzan

[AV1611VET]

The fact that both gunmen are dead,

"Gunmen?!?

How gauche!

It's interesting, isn't it?

When it comes to abortion or s_x education, they're called "young adults."

But when it comes to a school shooting, they're called "children."

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Why? can't they be the animals they were told they were?

Well, some animals take care of their young and stay with one mate for life (ex. gibbons), but outside of this hypothetical example, I think we can all agree that failing to provide for your children if you're a human being makes you a deadbeat. Hence, I said "if they were total deadbeats". In a hypothetical moral system based solely off of propagating your DNA, they might not be considered as such, but there are very few people alive who would argue that that's actually a good ethical system, regardless of their religious beliefs. The veracity of evolution doesn't make it into one.

If we are being taught we are animals subject to flight-or-flight, what's the deal if some of us choose to actually believe it and act like one?

That's not fight-or-flight, but we are pretty much subject to fight-or-flight. Last year, when I was hiking in a strewn-field, I fell off of a rock and nearly fell onto another one with a jagged edge. My body automatically went into the sort of behavior patterns described by fight-or-flight (with a surge of adrenaline, and nearly automatic decision making) and, without being aware of it, I shoved myself away and managed to come out of a serious situation with only a bruise and an elevated heartbeat. We continued hiking, and had a great evening.

That has nothing to do with leaving your children unprotected and without any source of sustenance.

Why threaten them with prison?

In reality? Because killing your children is wrong. In this hypothetical scenario, they can't change the society by living according to the standards that they've chosen for themselves, so they're just working with what they have.

The term that evolutionists use in describing one that eats his young is filial cannibalism.

I'm sure evolutionists don't think it's a crime if a polar bear eats his young'uns.

Do you? It's a polar bear, not a moral agent.

Yet, for some reason, we Mangani are supposed to follow a set of rules and regulations that, for some, go against our nature.

I'm actually curious, where does the term "Mangani" come from? Is it related to Tarzan, because I hate to admit it, but I've never actually read it.

Are you suggesting there's a moral code that came to us outside of the Animal Kingdom that we should be following?

AV, I'm Catholic. Yes, I do believe that there's a moral code outside of just propagating DNA that we should be following.

The point is, even in a system where that was the only ethical code that you believed you should follow or that society believed you should follow, even if that society allowed for infanticide, Columbine would still be looked at as wrong because from an evolutionary standpoint, it had a negative impact.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

I notice Tarzan went feral too, but he didn't shoot anybody.

Well he was British, not murican.

 

[Strathos]

I was completely unsure what this was about, but from reading the first page apparently it's another thinly-veiled "evolution promotes immoral behavior" thread.

One thing I always wonder about, how come proponents of this argument always try to blame violence and killing on evolution, but not promiscuity? After all, if someone really had the idea to live their lives according to the principles of evolution, they wouldn't go around killing people, instead they would try to have sex with as many fertile partners as possible, in order to create more descendants and pass on their genes.

(Of course, if someone did blame promiscuous behavior on evolution, that would still be a poor argument, since evolution is descriptive and not prescriptive, but I'm still surprised I haven't seen creationists try this tactic).

 

[Split Rock]

I notice Tarzan went feral too, but he didn't shoot anybody.


SOURCE

Still pretending not to know what the word "feral" means, I see.

fe·ral (fîrl, fr-)
adj.
1.
a. Existing in a wild or untamed state.
b. Having returned to an untamed state from domestication.
2. Of or suggestive of a wild animal; savage: a feral grin.
feral - definition of feral by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[Split Rock]

Why? can't they be the animals they were told they were?

They are human animals and yes should act like human animals. Why didn't they act like moles and dig into the earth because they were told they were animals? Why didn't they swim in the ocean like dolphins because they were told they were animals? Could it be that the reasons they did what they did had nothing to do with being "told they were animals?" That wouldn't fit your precious little pet paradigm, though.. would it?

If we are being taught we are animals subject to flight-or-flight, what's the deal if some of us choose to actually believe it and act like one?

Flight or flight is not something you think about. It is instinct.

Why threaten them with prison?

Because they live in a human society of human laws.

The term that evolutionists use in describing one that eats his young is filial cannibalism.

I'm sure evolutionists don't think it's a crime if a polar bear eats his young'uns.

That's because polar bears are not human and can't be charged with a crime. They can be shot on sight if they are a danger to humans, however, so it is a two-edged sword, so to speak.

Yet, for some reason, we Mangani are supposed to follow a set of rules and regulations that, for some, go against our nature.

No. Our nature as social animals is to follow rules. So do chimpanzees and elephants.

What's the deal?

The deal is you continue to confuse "feral" behavior with criminal behavior. Most likely on purpose.

Are you suggesting there's a moral code that came to us outside of the Animal Kingdom that we should be following?

No. They are human laws created by humans. Just like humans wrote human laws for humans to follow in the bible.

 

[Split Rock]

I was completely unsure what this was about, but from reading the first page apparently it's another thinly-veiled "evolution promotes immoral behavior" thread.

One thing I always wonder about, how come proponents of this argument always try to blame violence and killing on evolution, but not promiscuity? After all, if someone really had the idea to live their lives according to the principles of evolution, they wouldn't go around killing people, instead they would try to have sex with as many fertile partners as possible, in order to create more descendants and pass on their genes.

(Of course, if someone did blame promiscuous behavior on evolution, that would still be a poor argument, since evolution is descriptive and not prescriptive, but I'm still surprised I haven't seen creationists try this tactic).

Oh, creationists do indeed blame immoral behavior like pre-marital sex and promiscuity on evolution as well. In addition to drug abuse, bestiality, pedifilia, murder, rape, robbery, stubbing their big toe, etc. .. basically anything "bad."

 

[Strathos]

I haven't actually seen that, more often I see the typical "Hitler did what he did because of evolution" lies...

 

[CabVet]

I haven't actually seen that, more often I see the typical "Hitler did what he did because of evolution" lies...

Oh, I've seen AV blaming what happened on Columbine on what was being taught in their classrooms.

 

[driewerf]

One thing I always wonder about, how come proponents of this argument always try to blame violence and killing on evolution, but not promiscuity?

Because the creationists' audience would leave the lecture at once and head for the local brothel -- after a visit to the local museum of natural history.

 

[Split Rock]

Oh, I've seen AV blaming what happened on Columbine on what was being taught in their classrooms.

What I find irritating is that he keeps saying they went "feral." They didn't go "feral." They went homicidal, which is hardly the same thing. It all has to do with the Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christian mindset that "animal" = "beast-like."

 

[CabVet]

What I find irritating is that he keeps saying they went "feral." They didn't go "feral." They went homicidal, which is hardly the same thing. It all has to do with the Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christian mindset that "animal" = "beast-like."

It also has to do with their mindset that if it wasn't for religion we would be cannibals and child murderers. What's funny though is that many examples of actual cannibals are related to religious beliefs.

 

[Strathos]

Oh, I've seen AV blaming what happened on Columbine on what was being taught in their classrooms.

Same thing basically

 

[CabVet]

Because the creationists' audience would leave the lecture at once and head for the local brothel -- after a visit to the local museum of natural history.

Take a look at this:

The Gospel-Driven Church: What You Do In Your Hotel Room Gives Witness: A Warning for Conference-Goers

"A number of years ago a national conference for church youth directors was held at a major hotel in a city in the mid-west. Youth pastors by the hundreds flooded into that hotel and took nearly every room. At the conclusion of the conference, the hotel manager told the conference administrator that the number of guests who tuned into the adult movie channel broke the previous record, far and away outdoing any other convention in the history of the hotel."

 

[Split Rock]

It also has to do with their mindset that if it wasn't for religion we would be cannibals and child murderers. What's funny though is that many examples of actual cannibals are related to religious beliefs.

True. As far as other religious beliefs, that is what AVET would call "Diabolical Mimicry," so stuff like canabalism would be expected.

 

[VirOptimus]

'Sigh' I wish that people learned the difference between moral values and scientific theories and why they doesnt really mix.

 

[AV1611VET]

Speaking of values, what's America coming to when you can't order freedom fries anymore without having to explain yourself?

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Speaking of values, what's America coming to when you can't order freedom fries anymore without having to explain yourself?

Indeed things have come to a pretty pass when once fashionable impotent expressions of jingoism through deep fried potato based products goes out of fashion.

 

[Split Rock]

Speaking of values, what's America coming to when you can't order freedom fries anymore without having to explain yourself?

So, are we done with the Columbine references... at least until the next time you mention how the Columbine boys "went feral and left scientists scratching their heads?"

 

[AV1611VET]

So, are we done with the Columbine references... at least until the next time you mention how the Columbine boys "went feral and left scientists scratching their heads?"

For now ... yes.

I expected you guys to fall back on scientific rhetoric and fancy PR to deny it and make me look like I don't know what I'm talking about; but for now, I'm done with it.