Talking about the same things?

[dms1972]

This is a bit of a conundrum for me.

Is it possible to have a discussion / debate when both sides are using terms differently, and perhaps sometimes even wrongly?

Are we just left with "what you mean by ...." and "what I mean by .... "
(insert disputed term) or can we reach a true understanding. What would this be based on or in?

I suppose its case of how can I know for sure the other fella knows what he is talking about, or understands what i am talking about.


What lead me to ask was that I wanted to ask what a 'concept' is, then looked it up and came across another term I wasn't sure the meaning of - 'reify' - and had to look that up too!

 

[Received]

This is a bit of a conundrum for me.

Is it possible to have a discussion / debate when both sides are using terms differently, and perhaps sometimes even wrongly?

Are we just left with "what you mean by ...." and "what I mean by .... "
(insert disputed term) or can we reach a true understanding. What would this be based on or in?

I suppose its case of how can I know for sure the other fella knows what he is talking about, or understands what i am talking about.


What lead me to ask was that I wanted to ask what a 'concept' is, then looked it up and came across another term I wasn't sure the meaning of.

Oh heck yeah that's possible. Which is why to a large degree analytic philosophy is all about (to the point of being annoying) defining your terms.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

All that is needed to resolve this conundrum is for one of the two participants to listen carefully, and perhaps ask a few questions.

 

[quatona]

This is a bit of a conundrum for me.

Is it possible to have a discussion / debate when both sides are using terms differently, and perhaps sometimes even wrongly?

If you don´t agree on the definition of the words used (and keep using them as though you meant the same) meaningful communication is hardly possible.

Are we just left with "what you mean by ...." and "what I mean by .... "
(insert disputed term) or can we reach a true understanding.

If you end up with "what you/I mean by" you do have reached understanding of what the other person intended to say.
I´m not sure what you mean by "true understanding".

I suppose its case of how can I know for sure the other fella knows what he is talking about, or understands what i am talking about.

You can never be entirely sure about that. Even if you guys define the keyterms, these definitions themselves consist of words which you might use in different definitions.
That´s a basic problem of verbal communication.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

My dad always cautioned me "not to argue with someone that you have to educate first".

 

[Star Adept]

I have a major literary background. I tend to understand words better than the masses. I can be wrong, of course. A lot of the times I feign ignorance (or humbly admit to it) and say "I'm confused by what you mean by X. This is the definition of X I know [quote dictionary]" In general, it allows an explanation from the other party where they aren't offended by what I often see as "you don't know what you're talking about."

Sometimes, it's easier to decide to switch terms altogether. I remember a conversation I was having with a good buddy of mine on this site about evolution. He was using the word "kind" in a manner I was not used to. We spent 2 pages trying to come up with an understanding before we decided that each of us should decide on a new word on our own (which mandates a separate search for a more appropriate term). Following that decision we got back on track.

I have also in my years learned to not be such a stickler for words in other people. There are many times where you can blank out a word in someone's response and look at context, syntax, and tone to figure out what they meant.

I suppose its case of how can I know for sure the other fella knows what he is talking about, or understands what i am talking about.

You can't. It's impossible to know somebody else's mind. Whether they claim to understand or they actually understand, you'll never know. You can assume, based on how easy a conversation is, I suppose.

Personally, I would never ask anybody to explain a word for me. Look up the definition yourself. As you said, you had to look up another word from that definition. Keep going down the rabbit-hole of definitions. Synonyms, antonyms, and etymology are all good supplements to understanding a word. Syn/antonyms give you a broad understanding of a word without a strict definition. Etymology will give you an understanding of how that word came into existence. It should make the term clearer for you.

My dad always cautioned me "not to argue with someone that you have educate first".

I was always taught to educate myself before starting an argument

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Ambiguity. Thats what its called.

 

[dms1972]

What i mean is understanding what one is talking about, not just bandying about terms, which is rather easy to do and I probably do it myself. Seems to me there are levels of knowledge, one can know a bit about something, or have picked up popular notions. And one can have depth of knowledge - learning. So I mean the tendency to assume to understand things.

Take an example Sigmund Freud : what did Freud say about personal responsibility for neurosis?. Did he say we are responsible or that we are not? Or something more complex.

I am not vastly well read, but as I have read more I have come to see some popular notions are sometimes at odds with what is actually the case. Things become over-simplified sometimes.

 

[dms1972]

Personally, I would never ask anybody to explain a word for me. Look up the definition yourself. As you said, you had to look up another word from that definition. Keep going down the rabbit-hole of definitions. Synonyms, antonyms, and etymology are all good supplements to understanding a word. Syn/antonyms give you a broad understanding of a word without a strict definition. Etymology will give you an understanding of how that word came into existence. It should make the term clearer for you.

Ok I should say I am not just using the forums for debate. I see them (rightly or wrongly) as as also somewhere to resolve difficulties, ask questions, get a better understanding. They seem to be used in various ways.

In asking about 'concept' its one of the basics, and I thought almost a philosophical discussion in itself.