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Scrivner said:It is not a parody. It is not a reductio ad absurdum, it is just hi-lighting the offense of the cross and the nature of the gospel which is like a sword, dividing men. An honest presentation of the Biblical gospel will necessarily divide the chosen from the reprobate, the obedient from the rebelious, the ones who want to place their fallen minds at the steering wheel or those who want to place the revealed expression of God's mind (the Bible) in control.
Scrivner said:It is not a parody. It is not a reductio ad absurdum, it is just hi-lighting the offense of the cross and the nature of the gospel which is like a sword, dividing men. An honest presentation of the Biblical gospel will necessarily divide the chosen from the reprobate, the obedient from the rebelious, the ones who want to place their fallen minds at the steering wheel or those who want to place the revealed expression of God's mind (the Bible) in control.
Scrivner said:The reason why God chooses a law enforcement policy of penal punishment of the law-breaker (rather than a policy of remedial punishment of the law-breaker) is that the suffering of the non-Christian which is generate by penal punishment is glorifying to God
This suffering is more glorifying than would be the joy of the non-Christian (which would be generated by a pedagogical punishement) -- if it had been otherwise, God could easily have re-adjusted his law-enforcement mechanism.
God glorifies himself by rendering rewards upon those who worship him and by rendering penalties upon those who would prefer not to. Neither group will ultimately be correctively transfigured (because there is no purgatory) but both groups will remain as they are as they are and alternately rewarded or penalized.
This is the good news that God tells humanity in the Bible. It is only the hardness of your heart if you don't perceive it as good or if you don't find it plausible.
Maybe you need to go back under the bridge.Scrivner said:It is not a parody. It is not a reductio ad absurdum, it is just hi-lighting the offense of the cross and the nature of the gospel which is like a sword, dividing men. An honest presentation of the Biblical gospel will necessarily divide the chosen from the reprobate, the obedient from the rebelious, the ones who want to place their fallen minds at the steering wheel or those who want to place the revealed expression of God's mind (the Bible) in control.
Scrivner said:One thing that I notice liberal Christians doing is to take the offense out of the cross -- avoid describing the true meaning of Christ's work on the cross, the awesome punishment-bearing substitution that God made for us.
The Bible teaches that the wages of sin is death and that Christ died in order to allow Christians to escape the coming wrath. God rendered an infinite penalty upon Christ on the cross -- a penalty that God would otherwise render upon us sinners. By having faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ, Christians are pardoned of the wages of sin.
Christ didn't die SIMPLY in order to be an example, or to defeat death (although his work included both these things). But, rather, Christ also died to propitiate the infinite and eternal wrath of God that burns against all iniquity and evil.
Any explanation of the meaning of Christ's suffering that ignores the fact that he bore a divine punishment in order to set aside the punishment of God guts the Good News of the Bible: There is a divine punishment for the violation of God's law that God would render upon the non-believing sinner or Christ as his substitute.
An understanding of the atonement that neglects the fact that God wants blood sacrifices in order to be appeased, is an understanding that completely lacks the power to save a person from God's eternal punishments which do in fact exist. A cross without penal substitution is a cross that does not save the one who holds it. God said it.
Scrivner said:God said that he would punish non-believing sinners who broke his law -- punish them in a manner that has their destruction as its end rather than their transfiguration. Like all things, he does this for his glory
Scrivner said:When God grants you salvation, he also grants you the ability to contemplate these thoughts honestly and analyticaly without going crazy or recoiling in horror.
Scrivner said:God said that he would punish non-believing sinners who broke his law -- punish them in a manner that has their destruction as its end rather than their transfiguration. Like all things, he does this for his glory
:: Starlight :: said:If Scrivner is right and God (who is supposed to be perfectly good) sends people to eternal torment just because they are not as perfect as he is, then would there be any difference if, instead of God, there was an infinitely powerful and infinitely evil being? What could such a being do which would be worse than torturing someone eternally?
I think that, if people who believe that God sends people to eternal hell, just because we aren't as perfect as holy as he is, are right, then it would mean that the supposed infinite goodness of God is indistinguishable from infinite evil...
Why not just pass the koolaidChrysalis Kat said:Oh man, I don't know if we should we laugh or cry.
It was Jesus who said that if the non-Christian did not assent to his divinity that the non-Christian would not see life because the wrath of God would abide on him. (John 3:36). "He that believeth not in the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him"BuddhistPitBull said:You know maybe if you spent more time actually reading the BIBLE including the RED PARTS where Jesus speaks
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