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[*]Where did Noah live before the Flood?
[*]Where are the flood waters now?
[*]Why were they taken there?
You guys haven't even come close to convincing me of anything.I am not against prayer. I am interested in determining why you will not give up on E.A. when it should be clear to you by now that it does not work. If I am correct about why, is it possible that you are mistaken about God providing the answer you sought out? Could E.A. be wrong?
Not bad --- now show my justification.I'll answer these since AVET doesn't want to (and yes I am serious):
New Jersey.
Neptune
To act as a warning to Fallen Angels
Does that mean you're gonna respond to my posts or just keep conveniently ignoring them?You guys haven't even come close to convincing me of anything.
To tell you the truth, it's hard to tell when you guys are serious, just pulling my chain, or have no clue what I'm talking about.
Your word choices, how fast you guys come back with an answer, desires to steer the conversation away from the points I make, refusals to answer my questions, pleas for definitions of words, etc., all show me you have no idea what I'm saying.
And asking me questions, then telling me I'm 'making it up' before you [guys] even hear my answer is pretty infantile.
No, you guys are a long way from convincing me I'm wrong.
Actually, it's you that doesn't have a clue as to what you're talking about. "EA" has been soundly defeated at every turn, and rather than concede defeat, or at the very least admit where EA could be wrong, you just stand in a corner spouting nonsense, and then are genuinely confused when we don't agree with you. Crazy, huh?You guys haven't even come close to convincing me of anything.
To tell you the truth, it's hard to tell when you guys are serious, just pulling my chain, or have no clue what I'm talking about.
Your word choices, how fast you guys come back with an answer, desires to steer the conversation away from the points I make, refusals to answer my questions, pleas for definitions of words, etc., all show me you have no idea what I'm saying.
And asking me questions, then telling me I'm 'making it up' before you [guys] even hear my answer is pretty infantile.
No, you guys are a long way from convincing me I'm wrong.
Well on that subject, you don't have to be deceptive to make a replicated apple. I mean, a replicated apple, assuming a perfect copy, would be an apple just like any others. There's no deception there. It is, in fact, an apple and it is in fact mature. If you're saying that you try to pass it off as an apple that fell from a tree, then that's specific intent. We would have to show that this Christian god had the intent of deceiving people into thinking the Earth is 4.5billion years old. And more to the point, it really would be, in the sense that it would have gone through all the transformations that it would have if it had taken 4.5billion year to get to this point. However, there's still history.
If, as AV is claiming, his god, through the Bible, indicated that world is only 6,000 years old, then there'd be no deceit as he would've specifically told us that the world is only 6,000 years old even though it appears much older.
I think that AV's idea would be more accurately described as Embedded Maturity: Maturity without Age. History is an inseparable part of maturity, however. No way around that.
thus at the very least, the age of the universe can be seen in the stars and i know its not 6100 years oldThe heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.
You guys haven't even come close to convincing me of anything.
To tell you the truth, it's hard to tell when you guys are serious, just pulling my chain, or have no clue what I'm talking about.
And asking me questions, then telling me I'm 'making it up' before you [guys] even hear my answer is pretty infantile.
Your word choices, how fast you guys come back with an answer, desires to steer the conversation away from the points I make, refusals to answer my questions, pleas for definitions of words, etc., all show me you have no idea what I'm saying.
Dear AV1611VETI'll take questions on Embedded Age Creation:
- Definition = maturity without history
Why link to a thread where you were refuted? Is it just to save yourself the time of being refuted again?
Okay, so just to clarify, AV, you would say that God created the world about 6000 years ago, and starting from the moment he created it, it was 4.5 billion years old. Correct?
Thanks. Now, another question...
Now imagine two universes. One was created 6000 or so years ago as we said just now with the "embedded age" of billions of years, and the other has actually existed for those billions of years (it was created/came into being/whatever term applies to this particular universe all those billions of years ago - for the sake of a term, we'll call this "actual age").
Is there anything that could happen in the universe with the embedded age (that was created by God 6000 years ago) that could not happen in the universe with actual age (that was created billions of years ago)?
Why? It's a perfectly valid question.
However, let me answer it for you. You'll be welcome to tell me that I am wrong, provided you tell me why I am wrong.
You yourself have said several times that there's no evidence that the world was created by God 6000 years ago, apart from the Bible. If it wasn't for the Bible, all our investigations would show that the world is billions of years old.
However, if there was something that could happen in a universe that was created only 6000 years ago with embedded age that could NOT happen in a billions of years old universe, then this would violate your position.
So, your claim that there's no evidence apart from the Bible for a 6000 year old universe indicates that anything that can happen in a universe created 6000 years ago with embedded age can also happen in a universe that is billions of years old.
Would you agree with this? If you don't agree, why not?
Tiberius, I don't know how to answer that question.I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
Why link to a thread where you were refuted? Is it just to save yourself the time of being refuted again?
Sophophile said:Unfortunately, as I explained above, the large amount of time you spent discussing this with Jester did not result in any reconciliation of our visual observations of supernovae with the young universe concept.
And thanks for your frank acknowledgement that you are "at a loss" to explain this. This leads to my crucial point: As an advocate of a 6000 year-old universe, you should be upfront about all the implications of your viewpoint. This includes the fact that your viewpoint necessarily requires that there be, throughout the universe, perfect illusions of events that never happened, or did not happen when and where we directly observe them to happen. In other words, the young-universe concept requires that we totally ignore directly observed evidence from the real world, sweep it under the rug, and pretend it doesn't exist.
The answer I'm giving is: "I don't know".The reason for this is, as I demonstrated, there is no way to reconcile our observations of the supernova with your Embedded Age concept. If there was a way to reconcile these things, your answer would be something other than "I don't know". So unless you can provide an answer other than "I don't know", I take it that you concede the point that Embedded Age does not reconcile with direct observations of reality.
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.
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