Taking questions of the Different state past (2)

[dad]

-_- even as committed as you are, you should still realize that saying "the bible is right because it says so" and nothing else wouldn't convince a kindergartner

Young kids are easy to teach about God actually. It is the old goats that have many 'buts' that can be a challenge.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Young kids are easy to teach about God actually. It is the old goats that have many 'buts' that can be a challenge.

Yes they are taught, but they are told more than that

 

[PsychoSarah]

As much as you like to identify yourself as being atheist, I seem to recall that you prayed for salvation once.



Ah...no! You see there is a thing known as providence. Some people hold that to be a much greater display of God's greatness than miracles. I think providence is sort of like how God can have every detail work out perfect as a plan.


I may have chose according to what was in me and what God made me to like and have abilities for...etc.


No. God is more powerful than that. It is almost like He knows the end from the beginning, and can answer before we even call, and set things up in advance! That includes people who are also being set up for another plan, that also fit in to ours against their knowledge or even will in many cases...etc etc.



People and circumstances can and are used regardless of whether they know it or not, or are a willing part of the plan

So, you do not believe in free will then. So god set up murderers and rapists to be trash then? Or are you going to mention demons as a cop-out?

Prayed for salvation ONCE?! Do not insult me my good man, I have been praying for that almost once a week for the past 6 years (how often and how regularly I pray for that has no consistency). The only "once" is in a specific prayer you suggested I do. I pray for belief, which obviously I do not have. I pray that the entity I view as nonexistent shows me that I am wrong, did you not understand the first time we talked about this? I could have sworn you are someone who knows how long I have been seeking faith. Nevertheless, in case you aren't aware, despite never attaining belief in any deity, that has never stopped me from making honest attempts at contact. Even earlier than 6 years ago, interested kid that I was, should all else have failed in some random endeavor, I would pray for help. Silly, childish things, like the return of a hopelessly lost toy, dropped under the stands at a hockey game, never to be seen again. I never believed anything would come of such prayers even when I was really young, but I was of the mindset that it couldn't hurt to try. I was a weirdly skeptical little kid, figured out Santa Claus wasn't real by age 4-5, much to my mother's dismay, the Tooth Fairy disproved when I lost a tooth in the middle of the night and put it under my pillow, only to of course wake up and find the tooth was still there. Little me did not appreciate the deception. I guess that is why I ended up always taking stuff like that with extreme skepticism. Life story over I guess with that, I shouldn't derail this thread.

 

[dad]

Yes they are taught, but they are told more than that

It is the duty of believers to teach children the right way. The best way they can or know how.

 

[dad]

So, you do not believe in free will then.

Yes I do, but not unrestricted. Man will not be allowed to destroy the planet and all life.

So god set up murderers and rapists to be trash then? Or are you going to mention demons as a cop-out?

They got where they are by giving in to evil too much I would suspect. Every man is a potential murderer, in fact if we hate our brother we are a murderer, even if the deed is not carried out.

Prayed for salvation ONCE?! Do not insult me my good man, I have been praying for that almost once a week for the past 6 years (how often and how regularly I pray for that has no consistency).

Good for you. Far as I know, He heard the first time though. Might want to include other stuff in the chat times with Him.

The only "once" is in a specific prayer you suggested I do. I pray for belief, which obviously I do not have.

Good for you. I think you are on the right track. Relax though, belief may not come as fast and large to us as you may have thought. Reading or hearing the word of God causes faith to grow. I guess there is a time before it grows when it may be too small to see

Lu 13:19 -It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.


Mr 9:24 - And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

I pray that the entity I view as nonexistent shows me that I am wrong, did you not understand the first time we talked about this?

Apparently not. But the funny thing is, that for me to be shown wrong, and probably a lot of other folks, it can take considerable time. I tend to cling to my notions to the bitter end. Like the same state past, which I think is a right notion...good luck getting me to dump that

I could have sworn you are someone who knows how long I have been seeking faith. Nevertheless, in case you aren't aware, despite never attaining belief in any deity, that has never stopped me from making honest attempts at contact.

Mt 7:7 -Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Mt 7:8 -For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Even earlier than 6 years ago, interested kid that I was, should all else have failed in some random endeavor, I would pray for help. Silly, childish things, like the return of a hopelessly lost toy, dropped under the stands at a hockey game, never to be seen again.

Mt 18:3 -And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I never believed anything would come of such prayers even when I was really young, but I was of the mindset that it couldn't hurt to try.

He heard.

I was a weirdly skeptical little kid, figured out Santa Claus wasn't real by age 4-5, much to my mother's dismay, the Tooth Fairy disproved when I lost a tooth in the middle of the night and put it under my pillow, only to of course wake up and find the tooth was still there. Little me did not appreciate the deception. I guess that is why I ended up always taking stuff like that with extreme skepticism. Life story over I guess with that, I shouldn't derail this thread.

The problem with teaching kids fables as truth is that they lose ability to some degree to differentiate truth from fable. I could see also how someone getting saved that comes from a totally atheist background might take awhile longer to grow in faith.

 

[Kylie]

To insult a godless truth opposing body of philosophy and methodology, and belief system is not to launch a personal attack.

Never said it was the same, did I? But anyone who thinks that using insults is a valid way of conducting a discussion is pretty pathetic, don't you think?

You should support your 'science' claims regardless of what claims others have that may or may not be supported. Cop out!

Again, I ask why I should support my claims when you refuse to support yours.

I claim science doesn't know about the state of the past, and has no evidence for a certain state, namely the one they claim and use!

And you claim this because you refuse to actually learn what you are talking about. Your argument stems from your ignorance.

So when I look for evidence and knowledge, it must be without the domain of science. When we leave science in the dust, we are no longer bound by it's little criteria of what is acceptable evidence.

You are an example of the Dunning Kruger effect in action, dad.

You do not leave that little domain, so you must pony up.

When you make claims about reality, you must produce evidence to support them. WHy don't you do this? Because there is none.

The real future and real past are not evidenced here. That is your great mistake, in thinking they should be.

Again, you are claiming this from your ignorance.

Scripture got where it did for reasons that impacted billions, and were experienced and seen through great time. Nothing compares to it.

Please. You want to use the argument from popularity? Then almost 70% of people think Christianity is wrong.

 

[Kylie]

Rather than display a general lack of knowledge on history and Scripture, it might be better if you tried to peddle the armchair denial games elsewhere.

Rather than display a general lack of knowledge on reality and science, it might be better if you tried to peddle the armchair denial games elsewhere.

 

[Kylie]

Young kids are easy to teach about God actually. It is the old goats that have many 'buts' that can be a challenge.

Only because they take everything as truth. Mummy said this, and mummy is right, therefore what she said is right.

Please, when my daughter was younger, she learnt about Santa Claus and believed in him.

Then she grew up and thought for herself.

 

[Kylie]

It is the duty of believers to teach children the right way. The best way they can or know how.

SUch a shame that, even among Christians, people can't agree on which is the right way. Isn't that why there are so many different denominations of Christianity, dad?

Oh, let me guess. YOUR way just so happens to be the right way. How lucky for us that we have you to tell us the TRUTH.

 

[dad]

Rather than display a general lack of knowledge on reality and science, it might be better if you tried to peddle the armchair denial games elsewhere.

I deny nothing, ever. I simply question why evos deny spiritual realities usually, and invent godless and baseless stories.

 

[dad]

Only because they take everything as truth. Mummy said this, and mummy is right, therefore what she said is right.

Please, when my daughter was younger, she learnt about Santa Claus and believed in him.

Then she grew up and thought for herself.

You taught her falsehoods?

 

[dad]

Never said it was the same, did I? But anyone who thinks that using insults is a valid way of conducting a discussion is pretty pathetic, don't you think?

No, sometimes, as Jesus showed us, it is needed, funny, and educational, and alerts us to dangerous lies.

Again, I ask why I should support my claims when you refuse to support yours.

Your claims are supposed to be science which is supposed to have certain types of support. This is news?

And you claim this because you refuse to actually learn what you are talking about. Your argument stems from your ignorance.

If you knew what you were talking about you would not say that.

You are an example of the Dunning Kruger effect in action, dad.

No. I ain't. So called science is an example of Freddy Krueger gone ape on the truth!

When you make claims about reality, you must produce evidence to support them. WHy don't you do this? Because there is none.

Jesus did that. You should try to work on that denial thing.

Again, you are claiming this from your ignorance.

You are, nya nya.

Please. You want to use the argument from popularity? Then almost 70% of people think Christianity is wrong.

It all depends on what 70% they are!

 

[Kylie]

I deny nothing, ever. I simply question why evos deny spiritual realities usually, and invent godless and baseless stories.

Oh rubbish. You've rallied against any ideas that disagree with your own and claimed they were false.

 

[Kylie]

You taught her falsehoods?

Yes, because a parent is the ONLY place in the entire universe where a child is exposed to the idea of Santa Claus.

Please. Start thinking before you post, okay?

 

[Kylie]

No, sometimes, as Jesus showed us, it is needed, funny, and educational, and alerts us to dangerous lies.

And you aren't any of those things.

Your claims are supposed to be science which is supposed to have certain types of support. This is news?

ANd you are incapable of recognising that support when it is provied.

If you knew what you were talking about you would not say that.

I am talking about you are your continued demonstration that you are totally ignorant of science.

No. I ain't. So called science is an example of Freddy Krueger gone ape on the truth!

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? You certainly don't know what I am talking about, otherwise you'd be able to actually respond to the post instead of trying to make a bad joke.

Jesus did that. You should try to work on that denial thing.

Correction: you are told that Jesus did that.

But you seem incapable of realising that you can be told something that is not true.

You are, nya nya.

Oh, wow. What a devastating response.

It all depends on what 70% they are!

They think you are wrong. That's all that matters.

 

[dad]

Yes, because a parent is the ONLY place in the entire universe where a child is exposed to the idea of Santa Claus.

Please. Start thinking before you post, okay?

So it was not possible to teach them what was true, because Santa was preached as real in other places?

 

[dad]

Oh rubbish. You've rallied against any ideas that disagree with your own and claimed they were false.

If they were false they need not be denied, just exposed.

 

[dad]

And you aren't any of those things.

Am to.

ANd you are incapable of recognising that support when it is provied.

I recognize religion and fluff for what they are.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? You certainly don't know what I am talking about, otherwise you'd be able to actually respond to the post instead of trying to make a bad joke.

The effect you referred to is of less interest than the one I alluded to.

Correction: you are told that Jesus did that.

Correction. Those who knew Him told us that, and He told us that His words would never pass away. Where else do you think they may be??

But you seem incapable of realising that you can be told something that is not true.

False. See, you are wrong, I spotted it.

They think you are wrong. That's all that matters.

Not to God. Not to me. Not in the big picture of eternity. Let the waves roar, and let the heathen rage. Whooopee do.

 

[Kylie]

So it was not possible to teach them what was true, because Santa was preached as real in other places?

My daughter learnt about Santa Claus and was told he is real. Later, she started using logic and reason and concluded that Santa is not real.

How is this difficult for you to understand?

If they were false they need not be denied, just exposed.

And you have never provided a single shred of evidence to show that any of the ideas I have presented are wrong.

Am to.

Oh, how mature.

I recognize religion and fluff for what they are.

You recognise them as what you want them to be. I doubt you are capable of an unbiased opinion.

The effect you referred to is of less interest than the one I alluded to.

To you, maybe. But your interest is not related to the importance of things.

Correction. Those who knew Him told us that, and He told us that His words would never pass away. Where else do you think they may be??

Correction: You are TOLD these things were said by the people you are told knew him.

False. See, you are wrong, I spotted it.

Oh, nonsense. Being able to say something is wrong does not mean that you are able to reliably determine if something is wrong.

Not to God. Not to me. Not in the big picture of eternity. Let the waves roar, and let the heathen rage. Whooopee do.

And let God come and show me the truth, and I will convert!

I'll get back to you when I convert, okay? But don't hold your breath...

 

[dad]

My daughter learnt about Santa Claus and was told he is real. Later, she started using logic and reason and concluded that Santa is not real.

Great. That is a common story, except that in most cases it seems the parent is the one that affirms the belief, or teaches it even. How is this difficult for you to understand?

And you have never provided a single shred of evidence to show that any of the ideas I have presented are wrong.

How can I have evidence that you did or did not teach a child about Santa??

You recognise them as what you want them to be. I doubt you are capable of an unbiased opinion.

That doesn't seem to be a fair statement.

To you, maybe. But your interest is not related to the importance of things.

God and Scripture and the actual basis of science is of interest to some.

Correction: You are TOLD these things were said by the people you are told knew him.

Correction: The record was passed down, don't retreat into last Thursdayism on us.

Oh, nonsense. Being able to say something is wrong does not mean that you are able to reliably determine if something is wrong.

If you find something wrong, and can reliably prove it, do let us know then, I guess.

And let God come and show me the truth, and I will convert!

If we do not believe the Scripture, neither would we believe if one came to us from the dead.