Taking questions of the Different state past (2)

[justlookinla]

Belief is not a decision.

Have you decided to believe or not believe in santa? And why?

 

[Davian]

But you're an atheist after considering all the options and evidence, aren't you?

I am, and always have been.

Have you decided to believe or not believe in santa? And why?

My belief in Santa was not preceded by a conscious decision.

I think that gives me insight into why you believe in your god. Belief is not a conscious choice.

 

[justlookinla]

I am, and always have been.

My belief in Santa was not preceded by a conscious decision.

I think that gives me insight into why you believe in your god. Belief is not a conscious choice.

And your believe in santa now isn't after thoughtful and conscious consideration of the claim?

 

[Davian]

And your believe in santa now isn't after thoughtful and conscious consideration of the claim?

I was unable maintain that belief when I found it to be internally inconsistent. Again, no conscious decision to believe or disbelieve.

Is that how you find your belief in your god to be, not a conscious decision?

 

[justlookinla]

I was unable maintain that belief when I found it to be internally inconsistent. Again, no conscious decision to believe or disbelieve.

Is that how you find your belief in your god to be, not a conscious decision?

How did you know that it was inconsistent without a thoughtful consideration? And you were not conscious of your subsequent decision?

 

[Davian]

How did you know that it was inconsistent without a thoughtful consideration?

It was thoughtful consideration that brought me to the conclusion that there were inconsistencies.

And you were not conscious of your subsequent decision?

No.

Is that how you find your belief in your god to be, not a conscious decision?

 

[justlookinla]

It was thoughtful consideration that brought me to the conclusion that there were inconsistencies.

No.

Is that how you find your belief in your god to be, not a conscious decision?

Then it was after a thoughtful and conscious decision that you rejected God.

 

[Davian]

Then it was after a thoughtful and conscious decision that you rejected God.

Not at all. I have never had a coherent concept of "God" to reject in this manner. You might as well have said "Then it was after a thoughtful and conscious decision that I rejected Spider-Man". You are trying to tell me what I think, and what I experienced, and failing at it.

I ask again, is that how you find your belief in your god to be, not a conscious decision?

 

[justlookinla]

Not at all. I have never had a coherent concept of "God" to reject in this manner. You might as well have said "Then it was after a thoughtful and conscious decision that I rejected Spider-Man". You are trying to tell me what I think, and what I experienced, and failing at it.

I ask again, is that how you find your belief in your god to be, not a conscious decision?

Don't you reject the concept of the Christian God? That requires a thoughtful and conscious decision on your part.

 

[Davian]

Don't you reject the concept of the Christian God? That requires a thoughtful and conscious decision on your part.

You are using a faulty premise. I did not "accept" the concept of Santa Claus, I just.... believed. You continue to fail at telling me how I think. It was not a conscious decision.

The best that I can answer your question is that all of the god concepts that have been presented to me to date appear, in varying degrees, incoherent, inconsistent, and/or ridiculous.

Do you feel that you are exempt from answering questions put to you? Is your faith so fragile? I ask again, is that how you find your belief in your god to be, not a conscious decision?

 

[justlookinla]

You are using a faulty premise. I did not "accept" the concept of Santa Claus, I just.... believed. You continue to fail at telling me how I think. It was not a conscious decision.

No, you REJECT the concept of santa claus. You don't mindlessly reject it, flip a coin to decide if you believe or not, you have a level of consideration and then from that consideration you make a decision.

The best that I can answer your question is that all of the god concepts that have been presented to me to date appear, in varying degrees, incoherent, inconsistent, and/or ridiculous.

You say that because you've made a thoughtful and conscious decision.

Do you feel that you are exempt from answering questions put to you? Is your faith so fragile? I ask again, is that how you find your belief in your god to be, not a conscious decision?

My belief in God is a conscious decision.

 

[Davian]

No, you REJECT the concept of santa claus. You don't mindlessly reject it, flip a coin to decide if you believe or not, you have a level of consideration and then from that consideration you make a decision.

You continue to fail at telling me how I think. It was not a conscious decision.

You say that because you've made a thoughtful and conscious decision.

No, I can say that because "God" has not even been defined in a coherent, consistent manner other than as a character in a book. Got a testable definition of "God"? No? Anything that might show that gods are even possible? Still no?

My belief in God is a conscious decision.

Cool. So you can now decide to be an ignostic atheist, such as myself, for the next 24 hours. Of course, without a coherent idea of "God", you probably will not be able to get back to where you are now. Care to give it a try?

 

[Kylie]

Great. That is a common story, except that in most cases it seems the parent is the one that affirms the belief, or teaches it even. How is this difficult for you to understand?

You want me to understand that I affirmed my daughter's belief in Santa, even though I didn't?

What are you going on about?

How can I have evidence that you did or did not teach a child about Santa??

Yeah, you are missing the point here. Basic English comprehension is all that is needed. If you can't do that, you're in the wrong part of the internet.

That doesn't seem to be a fair statement.

But accurate, I think.

God and Scripture and the actual basis of science is of interest to some.

I suspect that the actual basis of science is of a great deal of interest to, you know, SCIENTISTS. And funnily enough, they don't use the Bible as a source.

Correction: The record was passed down, don't retreat into last Thursdayism on us.

Yeah, you keep trotting that out. I don't think you actually understand what last thursdayism means, because it certainly doesn't apply here.

I am saying that we cannot verify WHO they were passed down from. We do not know the original source of the texts.

If this was Last Thursdayism, I would instead be claiming that the records were created last week with the appearance that they had been around for thousands of years, and all of our memories were altered.

Seriously, you aren't doing yourself any favours by talking about things you don't understand.

If you find something wrong, and can reliably prove it, do let us know then, I guess.

Something which you have never been able to do to my arguments. Your arguments, on the other hand, are intentionally kept vague because any specific information you provide would quickly be shown false. Actually, I take that back. You have claimed something specific: that the rate of radioactive decay in the DSP was zero. And I showed that was false because it could not produce the ratios of parent to daughter to granddaughter material we see.

Your response to that was to invoke a MASSIVE coincidence that ALL the rocks we date just so happen to have gotten EXACTLY the right amount of daughter material in relation to parent material so as to APPEAR to have been formed by radioactive decay, even though you've never been able to explain why ALL the rocks all around the world got exactly the right ratios.

If we do not believe the Scripture, neither would we believe if one came to us from the dead.

Oh rubbish. If God wants me to believe, I'm sure he could deliver something to convince me.

 

[PsychoSarah]

But you're an atheist after considering all the options and evidence, aren't you?

But it still isn't by choice, I can't decide how I perceive information, and even if I could I know I would be altering how I think in order to believe something rather than it actually meeting my basic requirements for belief.

 

[Kylie]

But it still isn't by choice, I can't decide how I perceive information, and even if I could I know I would be altering how I think in order to believe something rather than it actually meeting my basic requirements for belief.

Exactly. A person who can look at a clear blue sky and see green with flashing purple polka dots is not all there. Likewise, a person who can be shown the evidence for something and still claim it never happened isn;t all there either.

 

[justlookinla]

But it still isn't by choice, I can't decide how I perceive information, and even if I could I know I would be altering how I think in order to believe something rather than it actually meeting my basic requirements for belief.

You can take information, analyze it and decide if the information is correct or not, can't you?

 

[Davian]

You can take information, analyze it and decide if the information is correct or not, can't you?

Sure. So can you. You have no objective, independently verifiable information for the existance for gods, yet you claim to have made this "conscious decision" to believe in one. Why is that?

 

[Kylie]

You can take information, analyze it and decide if the information is correct or not, can't you?

And if all the information says it is correct, if it withstands all attempts to prove it wrong, then you aren't just "deciding" that it's correct. You have no choice but to conclude that it is correct.

It's not a decision like what shoes you are going to wear today.

 

[justlookinla]

Sure. So can you. You have no objective, independently verifiable information for the existance for gods, yet you claim to have made this "conscious decision" to believe in one. Why is that?

You, on the other hand claim to mindlessly, without conscious consideration, to not believe in God. When you actually give thought to your decision, get back with me.

 

[justlookinla]

And if all the information says it is correct, if it withstands all attempts to prove it wrong, then you aren't just "deciding" that it's correct. You have no choice but to conclude that it is correct.

It's not a decision like what shoes you are going to wear today.

You're taking information and making a conscious decision, a choice, to accept or deny the information.