Taking questions of the Different state past (2)

[dad]

Obviously true. Everytime I disagree with YOU, you claim that I am disagreeing with God.

If you considered God in your little schemes rather than godless speculation, I might consider your stuff godly. Until then, it is what it is.

Jesus said nothing about the laws of nature being different in the past.

He said that this world would pass away, and He affirmed Noah and the flood and the first created man and woman.

You think the garden of Eden could exist in this nature? Try planting a garden and feeding all creatures in the same week with the fruit of it! Do not try to pretend Jesus and His words are on your side.

You are not Christ.

Wow, you are clever. You figured that one out. Good job.

 

[dad]

Yes, there is a claim a prophecy was made, and a claim that the prophecy was fulfilled. Very convincing.

Last Thursdayism is not appealing.

Funnily enough, not a single person other than you has found fault with my posts about radioactive decay supporting a present state past.

Do not mistake not being corrected with being correct.

No, that was not the question. You asked for "one Christian." You never specified that it had to be someone from the bible.

Name one prophet or apostle...(you missed that?) who dared to question the flood or Adam or creation? You will find none. Be sure of that. If some poor believer does today, what does that say about them?

Ah yes. Insulting the position you disagree with is a sure sign of someone who has no rational argument against it.

That was friendly advice, you don't want to see insults!

And you accept the old stories as true with no basis for doing so. If they are true, there would be supporting evidence from reality. But you can not provide any.

The basis for Scripture is rock solid and ancient. You show yourself clueless.

I do know it, and you've never referred to it.

In plain English (or Australian if you prefer) tell us what this "it" is!?

 

[Loudmouth]

If you considered God in your little schemes rather than godless speculation, I might consider your stuff godly. Until then, it is what it is.

Once again you prove that you will not even consider a same state past. How can you claim there is no evidence for a same state past when you will not even consider it?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Better to put faith in God and His word. That is what I specialize in here, notice?

No, considering the bible doesn't suggest creation changing in the way you describe

 

[Split Rock]

Better to put faith in God and His word. That is what I specialize in here, notice?

The only faith I see you put in here is in your own erroneous interpretation of scripture.

 

[dad]

Once again you prove that you will not even consider a same state past.

I considered it and it came up short. Not just short, but invisible and very short!

 

[dad]

The only faith I see you put in here is in your own erroneous interpretation of scripture.

You see only so much. The different plant growth rates, lifespans, light, thermodynamics, spirits living on earth directly, all suggest drastic differences actually. Other differences can also be inferred such as rapid evolution. There is a known time for the flood and all evolving of present species had to have happened in that time.

 

[dad]

No, considering the bible doesn't suggest creation changing in the way you describe

Does too!

 

[Kylie]

Does too!

And that's about the most honest argument I've ever seen from you, dad...

 

[Kylie]

Last Thursdayism is not appealing.

And I wasn't talking about that. All convincing me even more that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Do not mistake not being corrected with being correct.

I'm closer to correct than you are. Your claims disagree greatly with everything we have from reality.

Name one prophet or apostle...(you missed that?) who dared to question the flood or Adam or creation? You will find none. Be sure of that. If some poor believer does today, what does that say about them?

You never said that. You said:

No. I am saying Jesus the prophets, and apostles and writers of Scripture all accepted creation. Name me one Christian who can say the bible is wrong when it says that the world was made by him (Jesus)!!?​

You clearly said "one Christian." You never specified it had to be from the Bible. The fact you were talking about people in the Bible in the previous sentence is irrelevant.

That was friendly advice, you don't want to see insults!

Ah yes, the NON-insulting way of saying, "What you believe is utter balony."

The basis for Scripture is rock solid and ancient. You show yourself clueless.

No it isn't. There are many gaping holes in the Bible and countless contradictions.

In plain English (or Australian if you prefer) tell us what this "it" is!?

Oh, dad, did you forget we were talking about reality? Is this the best you can do? Pretending to have amnesia to get out of actually responding to something? That's just terrible.

 

[dad]

And that's about the most honest argument I've ever seen from you, dad...

I had just answered that same question in the previous post, so I kept it short. However, here was the previous post..

"The different plant growth rates, lifespans, light, thermodynamics, spirits living on earth directly, all suggest drastic differences actually. Other differences can also be inferred such as rapid evolution. There is a known time for the flood and all evolving of present species had to have happened in that time."

An honest argument (despite the opinion of some evolution dunnit proponents) does not have to exclude the facts of history or Scripture.

 

[dad]

And I wasn't talking about that. All convincing me even more that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Those who refuse to deal in the reality of Scripture and historically known characters of Scripture, or events and places etc indeed are engaging in a form of Last Thursdayism.

I'm closer to correct than you are. Your claims disagree greatly with everything we have from reality.

Reality includes more than the little circle some draw to keep God out.

You never said that. You said:

No. I am saying Jesus the prophets, and apostles and writers of Scripture all accepted creation. Name me one Christian who can say the bible is wrong when it says that the world was made by him (Jesus)!!?​

You clearly said "one Christian." You never specified it had to be from the Bible. The fact you were talking about people in the Bible in the previous sentence is irrelevant.

Well, we can extend that idea once you admit that Jesus and the apostles, and prophets and kings and priests of the bible, to a man or woman no less, all refrain from denying the creation or the flood in any way.

I am aware that some nominal christians today actually are so far removed from the Scripture and what Jesus was about, that they engage in being the mouthpieces of doubt in creation itself. I have no comment that can be posted here about that. Connect the dots. Some Scribes in Jesus day did not believe in the resurrection even...yet they were men of the cloth. Whoopee do.

No it isn't. There are many gaping holes in the Bible and countless contradictions.

I have not seen one yet. I have seen people claim there were some, and have always found that it was they...not God...that were actually in error. This has happened so often and with 100% reliability, that I now am forced to disrespect such claims.

Oh, dad, did you forget we were talking about reality?

Ah..so the "it" you were referring to is 'reality'. The manufactured biased and partial 'reality' that so called science has peddled has been unmasked to be nothing more than doubts from the dark side dressed up as science. Very superficial. True reality involves more than trying desperately to run from God and history and Scripture, and insist on trying to explain the universe in terms of 'under the nose' physical only, present state, near earth temporary laws. --I kid you not.

 

[Kylie]

Those who refuse to deal in the reality of Scripture and historically known characters of Scripture, or events and places etc indeed are engaging in a form of Last Thursdayism.

Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Reality includes more than the little circle some draw to keep God out.

Oh, fancy colours and a larger size must mean you are correct!

Give me some evidence that it includes more, and I'll accept it.

When will you learn this, dad? Claims mean nothing. Claims are garbage. EVIDENCE is all that matters. Without evidence, you have nothing.

Well, we can extend that idea once you admit that Jesus and the apostles, and prophets and kings and priests of the bible, to a man or woman no less, all refrain from denying the creation or the flood in any way.

Stop trying to twist your own words. You said ANY Christian, and I provided you with one.

I am aware that some nominal christians today actually are so far removed from the Scripture and what Jesus was about, that they engage in being the mouthpieces of doubt in creation itself. I have no comment that can be posted here about that. Connect the dots. Some Scribes in Jesus day did not believe in the resurrection even...yet they were men of the cloth. Whoopee do.

Translated from dad-speak: They disagree with me, therefore they are wrong.

I have not seen one yet. I have seen people claim there were some, and have always found that it was they...not God...that were actually in error. This has happened so often and with 100% reliability, that I now am forced to disrespect such claims.

That's because you have been blinkered and taught for so long that the Bible is correct in every way, you find incredible excuses to explain away contradictions, even if they aren't justified by any evidence whatsoever.

Ah..so the "it" you were referring to is 'reality'.

Yes. If you had trouble figuring that out (and apparently you did, since you needed me to explain it to you), then you really shouldn't be in a debate forum. And that is obvious, since you have been soundly defeated again and again.

The manufactured biased and partial 'reality' that so called science has peddled has been unmasked to be nothing more than doubts from the dark side dressed up as science. Very superficial. True reality involves more than trying desperately to run from God and history and Scripture, and insist on trying to explain the universe in terms of 'under the nose' physical only, present state, near earth temporary laws. --I kid you not.

Big claims, and then a second claim that you're not kidding when you made the first claim.

Wow, that's so convincing...

How about you provide some evidence? I have tremendous respect for the evidence. I have no respect for unsupported claims.

 

[Kylie]

I had just answered that same question in the previous post, so I kept it short. However, here was the previous post..

"The different plant growth rates, lifespans, light, thermodynamics, spirits living on earth directly, all suggest drastic differences actually. Other differences can also be inferred such as rapid evolution. There is a known time for the flood and all evolving of present species had to have happened in that time."

An honest argument (despite the opinion of some evolution dunnit proponents) does not have to exclude the facts of history or Scripture.

So, all those things were different, you say?

Where is your evidence to show that plant growth rates were different? And how were they different? Were they faster or slower, and by how much? How did they photosynthesize at a greater rate to provide the energy needed for a faster growth? How were their root systems different to account for the different amount of nutrients they needed to extract from the soil?

Where is your evidence to show that lifespans were different? How did they survive the illnesses that older people suffer from? How could the towns support such a large population (they had to house and feed and support not only the current generation, but the one before that, and the one before that and so on going back several centuries if the Bible is to be believed).

Where is your evidence to show that light was different? In what way was it different? Was it still made up of photons? Was the energy carried by a single photon different to what it is today? If so, was it a smaller or greater amount of energy, and by how much was it different? Did light travel at a different speed? If so, was it faster or slower, and what was the speed it travelled at? What process or mechanism caused it to change speeds to the one we see today?

Where is your evidence to show that thermodynamics were different? Which laws were different? The zeroth, first, second or third law? If so, please explain how it was different to what we have today. Also explain the mechanism which changed the law to what we have today.

Please define spirit and provide evidence that spirits have ever lived on earth.

Please explain what mechanism allowed the genetic changes that occur in evolution to proceed at a more rapid speed in the past state. Please also explain why this rapid evolution is no longer possible today.

Please show me the evidence to indicate that all of the surface of the world was covered by water at one time. Please do so by providing sources from multiple places around the world which all show signs of submergence and all date to the same time period.

When you answer those questions, THEN I will consider the idea that you are being honest about this.

 

[Loudmouth]

I considered it and it came up short. Not just short, but invisible and very short!

Baloney. Whenever I use a hypothetical same state to predict what we would see if that same state were real you rule it out of bounds.

 

[Split Rock]

You see only so much. The different plant growth rates, lifespans, light, thermodynamics, spirits living on earth directly, all suggest drastic differences actually.

Most of that is dadology nonsense, not scripture. Scripture does claim that our ancestors (or those of the Hebrews at least) lived longer in the past, but that was an adoption of Sumerian/Babylonian legends, where the kings of old reigned for hundreds of years. The simplest explanation, is that these ages are exaggerated.

Other differences can also be inferred such as rapid evolution.

Funny how you guys don't mind making up "rapid evolution" to cover up flaws in your timelines, but claim that evolution can't do anything otherwise.

There is a known time for the flood and all evolving of present species had to have happened in that time.

Wrong. There was no flood, and your timelines are way too short. Period.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Does too!

Find me the verse that states the laws of physics changed in any way.

 

[dad]

Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about.



Oh, fancy colours and a larger size must mean you are correct!

Thanks. I agree I am correct.

Give me some evidence that it includes more, and I'll accept it.

Those who ask for more than what God gave man, and reject what was given seem to be making a hollow little call for help, as I see it.

When will you learn this, dad? Claims mean nothing. Claims are garbage. EVIDENCE is all that matters. Without evidence, you have nothing.

You claim this? You agree with science claims? Guess where than leaves you by your own standards? Hoisted. Patard...meet KTS.

Stop trying to twist your own words. You said ANY Christian, and I provided you with one.

No Christian can disagree with Jesus. The apostles and prophets clearly say the world was created. No way round it.

That's because you have been blinkered and taught for so long that the Bible is correct in every way, you find incredible excuses to explain away contradictions, even if they aren't justified by any evidence whatsoever.

False. I learned that Scripture was right by the prophesies and evidences we have...despite what I was taught.

Yes. If you had trouble figuring that out (and apparently you did, since you needed me to explain it to you), then you really shouldn't be in a debate forum. And that is obvious, since you have been soundly defeated again and again.

If you ramble on occasionally to where we have to ask what "it" refers to in a post, don't blame others. Your version of reality was put in it's place.

How about you provide some evidence? I have tremendous respect for the evidence. I have no respect for unsupported claims.

You apparently do not even know what evidence is, forget some respect for it. You seem to want to pigeonhole all that can be called evidence into a little circle you draw. No, KTS, it doesn't work that way.

 

[dad]

Find me the verse that states the laws of physics changed in any way.

Think bigger. Verse??!! Get serious. The BOOKS that talk of the future and far past outline differences, not some verse.

 

[dad]

So, all those things were different, you say?

Where is your evidence to show that plant growth rates were different?

The evidence is in the record. The Scripture record. Man cannot know by science or any other way.

And how were they different? Were they faster or slower, and by how much?

Faster. A tree could grow in weeks to bear fruit, even less.

How did they photosynthesize at a greater rate to provide the energy needed for a faster growth?

Who says that was the way growth happened? Have you some proof of that claim?? If so we can look at it. Light exhibited different properties, so even if you were correct, that would be child's play to answer.

How were their root systems different to account for the different amount of nutrients they needed to extract from the soil?

Got any root systems from pre KT layer? If so, we can look at that.

Where is your evidence to show that lifespans were different?

You cannot know by science that people even lived at all!!! They did not leave remains as we would in this state, so science foolishly has thought there were no people!!!!!!! You guys are in kindergarten.

How did they survive the illnesses that older people suffer from?

How will they survive soon in the time right after Jesus returns to rule forever? How does the tree of life work? What laws and forces work together when a new state exists that includes spiritual matter? Many questions are just too big for science! The bible does give some clues though.

How could the towns support such a large population (they had to house and feed and support not only the current generation, but the one before that, and the one before that and so on going back several centuries if the Bible is to be believed).

If plants grew fast how hard would it be to grow food in days??

Where is your evidence to show that light was different?

Adam saw stars.

In what way was it different?

In the future a rainbow can have an emerald appearance. Light also comes from God, and we will not need the sun.

Was it still made up of photons? Was the energy carried by a single photon different to what it is today? If so, was it a smaller or greater amount of energy, and by how much was it different?

Apparently the light of eternity doesn't burn like our light. It can be invisible to the eyes now also, and beyond our range and usual spectrum. Paul saw a great light, but those with him saw nothing.

Did light travel at a different speed?

It may not be the speed that matters. You see if time does not exist, or exists in another way, then the time it takes light to move would be different!

If so, was it faster or slower, and what was the speed it travelled at? What process or mechanism caused it to change speeds to the one we see today?

As above, perhaps time was a factor. Also, the universe is linked to God and His will. So we need not have one universal speed of light! It may depend on how fast we or God want it to get there!?

Where is your evidence to show that thermodynamics were different?

The water and land on the planet was separated and no great heat produced.

Which laws were different? The zeroth, first, second or third law?

Who says these existed as we know them?? Proof?

If so, please explain how it was different to what we have today. Also explain the mechanism which changed the law to what we have today.

God is not a mechanism.

Please define spirit and provide evidence that spirits have ever lived on earth.

A spirit is a being that has a body that is not physical, and has certain properties, largly unknown to man. Some properties are known, such as an ability to pass through matter.

Please explain what mechanism allowed the genetic changes that occur in evolution to proceed at a more rapid speed in the past state. Please also explain why this rapid evolution is no longer possible today.

Science doesn't know. Some knowledge, if wicked mankind knew, they would be too dangerous.

Please show me the evidence to indicate that all of the surface of the world was covered by water at one time.

My current guess for the aprox layer where the flood was at or near is the KT layer. The iridium comes from space or deep in the earth, just as the flood waters came from the same places!


Got any tough ones now?