Taking questions of the Different state past (2)

[Andy 998]

I've forgotten where I read it now, but a quick google indicates that Josephus mentions that there were many messiah claimants at the time, and even the gospels warn against the false messiahs. Messianic figures were quite the thing at the time apparently.

I was really interested in your sources for your statement that "the romans were crucifying lots of these religious cult leaders at the time."

I'm not aware of Josephus writing about that.

If you read other writers about that period reports of magic and miracles were common place, every leader of every sect or cult was at least expected to be able to perform miracles, the kings of the time all employed a few wizards and magicians and as we know word of mouth will exaggerate simple things to the extreme, one single cough can become death within a few days after 20 telling's.

 

[justlookinla]

If you read other writers about that period reports of magic and miracles were common place, every leader of every sect or cult was at least expected to be able to perform miracles, the kings of the time all employed a few wizards and magicians and as we know word of mouth will exaggerate simple things to the extreme, one single cough can become death within a few days after 20 telling's.

Since I'm a living miracle, I have no problems with Jesus and His miracles.

 

[dad]

If you read other writers about that period reports of magic and miracles were common place

,


With all the recorded spiritual happenings in history, it is strange that so called science chose to isolate itself in a corner and plug it's ears to it all.

every leader of every sect or cult was at least expected to be able to perform miracles,

Oh? So Barabbas performed miracles? No. His sect simply committed acts of terror.

the kings of the time all employed a few wizards and magicians and as we know word of mouth will exaggerate simple things to the extreme,

Name say, 4 wizards and 3 magicians Herod employed?

one single cough can become death within a few days after 20 telling's.

Frightful little diversion there.

 

[dad]

I've forgotten where I read it now, but a quick google indicates that Josephus mentions that there were many messiah claimants at the time, and even the gospels warn against the false messiahs. Messianic figures were quite the thing at the time apparently.

Scripture is crystal clear on the signs that would follow the arrival of Messiah. The virgin birth in Bethlehem, healing the blind and the deaf and the lame, etc etc.

The return of Christ is also clear, so we will not be fooled either. The being fooled and deceived bit is for those that never came to the Light, the insincere, and so called science.

 

[CabVet]

Scripture is crystal clear on the signs that would follow the arrival of Messiah. The virgin birth in Bethlehem, healing the blind and the deaf and the lame, etc etc.

Yes, so crystal clear that the real people of God (the Jewish) don't think the prophecies were fulfilled.

The return of Christ is also clear, so we will not be fooled either. The being fooled and deceived bit is for those that never came to the Light, the insincere, and so called science.

Yes, so clear that people have been saying that we are on the "last days" since day 1 after the crucifixion.

 

[dad]

Show us what the general rules are as they related to the ratio of any element in the rocks including Fe, Ni, Al, K, Ar, etc.

I think even so called science can tell us what patterns creation exhibits in this time and place. The only issue is whether we accept the dead and physical only zombie science religious based interpretations of why that is so, or whether we chose to believe the Living God.

Having more (what is now) parent material does not need to mean anything like what you try to lead us to feel obligated to believe it means!

Be free people. Get yourself free from the pedlars of death.

 

[dad]

Yes, so crystal clear that the real people of God (the Jewish) don't think the prophecies were fulfilled.

False. All the apostles and early disciples were Jews. Jesus was a Jew. They believed something fierce.

Yes, so clear that people have been saying that we are on the "last days" since day 1 after the crucifixion.

Don't confuse the latter days with the very last several years of man's rule on earth. If the world is over 6000 years and Jesus came about 2000 years ago, guess what part of the history of earth we live! The latter times.

With such an antichrist leadership in the US, and therefore western world (Roman empire remains) it is obvious that people who know Scripture are aware that we are now likely near to entering, or even have entered the final stages of those latter years. Be ready.

 

[CabVet]

False. All the apostles and early disciples were Jews. Jesus was a Jew. They believed something fierce.

Jews that became Christians. The other 99% of them didn't.

Don't confuse the latter days with the very last several years of man's rule on earth. If the world is over 6000 years and Jesus came about 2000 years ago, guess what part of the history of earth we live! The latter times.

With such an antichrist leadership in the US, and therefore western world (Roman empire remains) it is obvious that people who know Scripture are aware that we are now likely near to entering, or even have entered the final stages of those latter years. Be ready.

Keep making up excuses and telling people to be "ready". Every generation has done that, it's called an empty threat.

 

[Andy 998]

Don't confuse the latter days with the very last several years of man's rule on earth. If the world is over 6000 years and Jesus came about 2000 years ago, guess what part of the history of earth we live! The latter times.

You are a little off there, the earth is billions of years old and we have only been here as humans for a very very short time, your beliefs are just one of a long list of beliefs that came before Christianity all making the same claims, virgin birth, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection and returning.
You closing your eyes to everything that contradicts your beliefs changes nothing.

 

[dad]

Jews that became Christians. The other 99% of them didn't.

The plan of God included the few, or remnant of Jews that would get saved. It also included the whole world. There is a time coming when Scripture says all of Israel will be saved, those that survive to that point, of course. God always knew His first nation/people would rebel and that only later would they join the ranks of the saved.

Keep making up excuses and telling people to be "ready". Every generation has done that, it's called an empty threat.

Not at all. People in Noah's day called the coming flood an empty threat. People in the end period will also, Scripture says. That is par for the course.

 

[dad]

You are a little off there, the earth is billions of years old and we have only been here as humans for a very very short time,

We don't count imaginary time, or the inability of science to detect humans were actually here as long as anything else. Your silly billions of years is merely a magic unprovable pixie you invoke to make a lie believable, and try to credit creation with.

your beliefs are just one of a long list of beliefs that came before Christianity all making the same claims, virgin birth, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection and returning.

That shows you are speaking from deep ignorance.

You closing your eyes to everything that contradicts your beliefs changes nothing.

Scripture opens our eyes to the truth you close your eyes to actually. Scripture indicates a future that is both different from the present and also a future that is similar to the past. You have based it all on today, and left out the most important Part.

There is no way a same state past could be proven in a court of law.

 

[Loudmouth]

I think even so called science can tell us what patterns creation exhibits in this time and place. The only issue is whether we accept the dead and physical only zombie science religious based interpretations of why that is so, or whether we chose to believe the Living God.

Having more (what is now) parent material does not need to mean anything like what you try to lead us to feel obligated to believe it means!

Be free people. Get yourself free from the pedlars of death.

You didn't address my post. Here it is again.

Show us what the general rules are as they related to the ratio of any element in the rocks including Fe, Ni, Al, K, Ar, etc.

To refresh your memory, this is what you wrote in post 210:

"Name the specific pattern that was predicted, that doesn't follow the general rules of what was created??"

What are those general rules? You are claiming that there are these rules that produce the same relationships between the ratios of K/Ar, Rb/SR, and U/Pb. What are those rules? Why can I use the K/Ar ratio to predict the Rb/Sr ratio of rocks in a given layer? Why is there a relationship between these ratios?

 

[Loudmouth]

In addition to the consilient dates between radiometric dates which clearly support a same state past, we also have an absence of short lived nuclides on the Earth.

If elements started decaying recently, as dad claims, then why can't we find certain isotopes that have a short half life? They should still be there, right? We humans can still make them through artificial means, so why don't we find them in the Earth?

Extinct Nuclides, Why are they extinct? Why is the U238 Series in Equilibrium?

Let's take Cesium-135 as our example. 135Cs has a half life of 2.3 million years, and 135Cs is not produced by the decay of any other unstable isotope or other natural processes. Therefore, if these isotopes have only been decaying for 4,000 years or so, where is 135Cs? It should still be there.

The reason that we don't have any 135Cs is because it has been billions of years since those isotopes were produced in the supernova responsible for the heavy elements in our solar system. 135Cs, and the rest of the short lived nuclides, are clear evidence for a same state past.

 

[dad]

You didn't address my post. Here it is again.

Show us what the general rules are as they related to the ratio of any element in the rocks including Fe, Ni, Al, K, Ar, etc.

To refresh your memory, this is what you wrote in post 210:

"Name the specific pattern that was predicted, that doesn't follow the general rules of what was created??"

What are those general rules? You are claiming that there are these rules that produce the same relationships between the ratios of K/Ar, Rb/SR, and U/Pb. What are those rules? Why can I use the K/Ar ratio to predict the Rb/Sr ratio of rocks in a given layer? Why is there a relationship between these ratios?

The essential question is NOT what 'produces'. The only question that matters at all is what "produced"!! NOTHING produces creation or things that were created, they were already produced by God. You seem to be grasping at straws here..trying to imagine what had to produce things and do so by our current laws no less!!! How small minded.

 

[dad]

In addition to the consilient dates between radiometric dates which clearly support a same state past, we also have an absence of short lived nuclides on the Earth.

There are no dates. There is a created world that you fanatically fantasize represents great time that did the creating! Don't you get it..you are busted. Really.

If elements started decaying recently, as dad claims, then why can't we find certain isotopes that have a short half life? They should still be there, right? We humans can still make them through artificial means, so why don't we find them in the Earth?

Simple!!!! Better sit down and take a deep breath. Those missing isotopes were never here!!! Prove they were? You are peddling religion, plainly!! Thanks for that. You want to claim they were here and demand we believe you by pure unadulterated faith alone!!! --Or have you proof? Ha. Lurkers watch this..

Let's take Cesium-135 as our example. 135Cs has a half life of 2.3 million years, and 135Cs is not produced by the decay of any other unstable isotope or other natural processes. Therefore, if these isotopes have only been decaying for 4,000 years or so, where is 135Cs? It should still be there.

No!! The earth is 6000 plus years old I assume, so why would we expect some same state production millions of years ago of this? Either it is here/was here, or it is not. I don't see it, do you? Where is it? Hiding? Vanishing act? How convenient.

The reason that we don't have any 135Cs is because it has been billions of years since those isotopes were produced in the supernova responsible for the heavy elements in our solar system. 135Cs, and the rest of the short lived nuclides, are clear evidence for a same state past.

Gong!! They were never here is what I suspect. Either prove they were or preach elsewhere your strange godless religion.

 

[Loudmouth]

There are no dates. There is a created world that you fanatically fantasize represents great time that did the creating! Don't you get it..you are busted. Really.

I have showed you the dates multiple times now. Pretending they don't exist is not an argument.

Why would dates derived from modern decay rates and measured ratios of isotopes be the same for different sets of isotope pairs? Where is your explanation?

Simple!!!! Better sit down and take a deep breath. Those missing isotopes were never here!!! Prove they were?

Why would those isotopes be missing? Please explain.

Why do we only see the isotopes that have long half lives and not the ones with short half lives? Why would the initial makeup of the Earth be determined by decay rates that you claim didn't exist at the time? As William of Conches put it . . .

"[They say] "We do not know how this is, but we know that God can do it." You poor fools! God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so."--William of Conches

No!! The earth is 6000 plus years old I assume, so why would we expect some same state production millions of years ago of this? Either it is here/was here, or it is not. I don't see it, do you? Where is it? Hiding? Vanishing act? How convenient.

Why do we only see the isotopes we would expect to see from a present state that extends back billions of years?

How do you explain this? Why is the evidence consistent with a same state past?

 

[Loudmouth]

The essential question is NOT what 'produces'. The only question that matters at all is what "produced"!! NOTHING produces creation or things that were created, they were already produced by God.

You have never offered any evidence that this is true. None. All you do is repeat the claim.

 

[dad]

I have showed you the dates multiple times now. Pretending they don't exist is not an argument.

Name any of these so called dates that are not based on how much parent and daughter material exist??!

If you can't, you are just offering a belief that all the daughter materials were created or came to exist BY decay. That is not dates, that is faith.

Why would dates derived from modern decay rates and measured ratios of isotopes be the same for different sets of isotope pairs? Where is your explanation?

There ARE NO dates derived from present decay rates that go beyond the time this state existed. You want us to believe by purest faith alone, that this state always existed and basically created all we see!

Why would those isotopes be missing? Please explain.

I never claimed they were ever here!!! You did! Why would they need to be here??

Why do we only see the isotopes that have long half lives and not the ones with short half lives?

We actually see some of both. We just do not see some YOU would expect according to YOUR religion. Tough. That is your problem.

Why would the initial makeup of the Earth be determined by decay rates that you claim didn't exist at the time? As William of Conches put it . . .

It was not dictated by decay at all. You are the one who peddles the belief that daughter materials all got here that way! Not me. Not God. By Scripture. Not fact. Not any proof.

Why do we only see the isotopes we would expect to see from a present state that extends back billions of years?

You see what your religion allows apparently. I see no missing materials at all. No one does, because they were not here, save in your head! You had a chance to prove they were. What happened? You choked.

Come on over to the true religion.

 

[dad]

You have never offered any evidence that this is true. None. All you do is repeat the claim.

No man has evidence of where created things came from, and least of all science. You claim that all daughter materials came not by God creating, but by the present state process of decay. Is that not right?

If that is right you sure as hell will not be able to prove it.

 

[Loudmouth]

Name any of these so called dates that are not based on how much parent and daughter material exist??!

Why do dates based on different isotope pairs with different half lives produce the same dates?

Where is your explanation for this?

Here is the equation used for determining the age of a rock.

For each set of isotopes, the half life and ratio of daughter and parent isotopes are different, yet they all result in the same t, the same age. How do you explain the fact that when we plug in the observed ratios and the observed half lives we get the same t on the other side of the equation for different sets of isotopes?

I never claimed they were ever here!!! You did! Why would they need to be here??

Why wouldn't they be there?

Where is your explanation? Why is the absence of presence of isotopes in the Earth determined by their modern decay rates and modern sources of production? Why do we see this relationship?

It was not dictated by decay at all.

Then how do you explain the relationships between absence or presence and modern decay rates?

You are the one who peddles the belief that daughter materials all got here that way! Not me. Not God. By Scripture. Not fact. Not any proof.

I am showing you the proof. I am showing you that all of the evidence is consistent with a same state past.

How do you explain the fact that all of the evidence is consistent with a same state past?

You see what your religion allows apparently. I see no missing materials at all.

Then show me where we find naturally occurring Cesium-135.