Taking Offense

[SpiritPsalmist]

I don't think it's right to blanket offense as always wrong, sinful, and something we can just avoid if we really wanted. I think the big point is what do we choose to do and why.

Its seems to me like some people "google" a word in the Bible and take it for what it says blankly, without putting it into conext.
I do not think being Christian and attaining to Psalm 119:165 means nothing will ever offend us, and if it does it's our sinful fault.
I think however, refering to my interlinear Bible, the "offense/stumbling block" that is talked about is not people's reaction of sadness/being hurt/shocked at what has happened -> many reactions are normal, and lets consider righteous anger, Jesus' reaction at the temple. Jesus was offended, and he did something about it, but it is the reason why He did it. He wasn't getting justice, He was standing up for purity and holiness of God.

Consider these verses
Psalms 119:161-164 NASB
Princes persecute me without cause,
But my heart stands in awe of Your words.
162I rejoice at Your word,
As one who finds great spoil.
163I hate and despise falsehood,
But I love Your law.
164Seven times a day I praise You,
Because of Your righteous ordinances.


I agree we shouldn't get bitter, or refuse to forgive, but honestly, who can actually "make" themself forget completely and numb all "bad" emotions to a person who has wronged them. Are we not instructed to admit and show our brother his wrongdoing? (Matthew 18:15) and if he doesn't listen to us we include a 3rd party, and if he still doesnt we go to leadership.

What I'm saying is why take a extreme anti-offense=evil stance when it isn't a black & white issue when surveying scripture.

What is wrong about knowing the fact someone has wronged us/God, as long as we know we should not let it become a wedge between us and our joy in God?
This verse points us to God and His word for comfort, it doesn't comdemn our reaction or actions for righteousness, especially if we are standing up for an offense against God's holiness.

Looking forward to replies, and please don't come on too harsh personally - just a warning. I am open to what you have to say about my ideas and Gods word!

Kind regards,
Emma

I'm reminded of an old proverb of sorts: We cannot keep the birds from flying over our heads, but we can keep them from building nests in our hair.

I remember a particular period where I was spending a great deal of time with the Lord and He was doing a lot of healing in my life. There was one particular coworker whom I always seemed to be offended with. She seemed to go out of her way to do things that were offensive...and I would bite. However, as I began to allow God to move in my heart I began to notice that I was not as bothered by her antics as I had been. One day she did something that was particularly mean (I can't remember what it was now) and I remember that I noticed it but it seemed to just float right over my head. I responded to her without even a hint that I'd even seen it. She later came to me and apologized and from that day on, we got along fairly well.

Every single time I have found myself offended over what someone did or said to me, the Lord reminds me of the verse I posted in the OP. To me, me being offended is due to "my pride", "my ego", being bruised. Especially when someone claims to know my heart and my intent and by their words only show they know nothing at all. God shows me though, that if I let "their ignorance" with their words take the joy of Jesus away then that happens because there is still an opening where His Word is not permeating. Of course we ALL have those openings...and for me anyway, the fact that I've taken offense (basically allowing the birds to start building a nest in the hair) is the light shining on that part of me that I need to give over to the Lord to take care of.

I disagree that Jesus was offended. His actions were based on the who HE was and His responsibility to His Father and the people He came to set free. He hated and despised what the money changers were doing in the Temple. It was against the law but those who were supposed to have run them off before had not done their jobs.

1 Cor. 13: 4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

​

Thanks for sharing. I hope that you don't think my response is harsh. Sometimes I am accused of that but really I'm just writing from my heart and mean no harm to anyone.

​

 

[EmmyLu]

Hi,
Thanks for sharing, and no you weren't harsh.
I agree that God will work that we won't get as offended. But I don't think we'll ever achieve not ever being offended, even if we are offended for a few seconds. That's more what I'm talking about. Where-as what happened to you, and I guess what usually happens is that people hold onto it.

It's just a little frustrating for Christians to say its wrong to have a feeling for justice -ever, not in the situations like above where yeah you shouldn't have got annoyed with a person. But what about when people have done something wrong, and it's our responsibility to do something. For instance if a child swears to their parent, a parent is offended. Is that wrong? Is it still wrong if the parent forgives thier child afterwards, but still is a little disheartened they did it.
I feel like it's a wrong thing to say we should never get offended, because being offended can have a different meaning to different people. You might laugh but defining the word "offense" are numerous circumstances. It seems definitions of the word are meaning an action of someone commiting a relationship crime or hurting another.
1 a obsolete : an act of stumbling b archaic : a cause or occasion of sin : stumbling block
2 : something that outrages the moral or physical senses
3 a : the act of attacking : assault b : the means or method of attacking or of attempting to score c : the offensive team or members of a team playing offensive positions d : scoring ability
4 a : the act of displeasing or affronting b : the state of being insulted or morally outraged <takes offense at the slightest criticism>
5 a : a breach of a moral or social code : sin, misdeed b : an infraction of law; especially : misdemeanor

Reading the above definitions I can see circumstances where it can be "offense" is describing the person who offends or the person getting offended. In the case of number 1 & 5 it merely describes what has been done: ie. someone has offended someone by doing something wrong, and it doesn't define offense by the reaction of that person. I see this type of offense unavoidable (unless we let our moral code become non-existant).
However in number 2, 3 & 4, the person who is offended is described because of their negative reaction to the person offending.

Yes we shouldn't be outraged (#2) but we can't be in the wrong if we think it is wrong because someone broke our moral/social code and our reaction is that we recognise this, harbour no bad feelings, forgive them.
We shouldn't be offeded at the people, but I don't see what is wrong about being offended by their action: "love the sinner, hate the sin".

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Hi,
Thanks for sharing, and no you weren't harsh.
I agree that God will work that we won't get as offended. But I don't think we'll ever achieve not ever being offended, even if we are offended for a few seconds. That's more what I'm talking about. Where-as what happened to you, and I guess what usually happens is that people hold onto it.

It's just a little frustrating for Christians to say its wrong to have a feeling for justice -ever, not in the situations like above where yeah you shouldn't have got annoyed with a person. But what about when people have done something wrong, and it's our responsibility to do something. For instance if a child swears to their parent, a parent is offended. Is that wrong? Is it still wrong if the parent forgives thier child afterwards, but still is a little disheartened they did it.
I feel like it's a wrong thing to say we should never get offended, because being offended can have a different meaning to different people. You might laugh but defining the word "offense" are numerous circumstances. It seems definitions of the word are meaning an action of someone commiting a relationship crime or hurting another.
1 a obsolete : an act of stumbling b archaic : a cause or occasion of sin : stumbling block
2 : something that outrages the moral or physical senses
3 a : the act of attacking : assault b : the means or method of attacking or of attempting to score c : the offensive team or members of a team playing offensive positions d : scoring ability
4 a : the act of displeasing or affronting b : the state of being insulted or morally outraged <takes offense at the slightest criticism>
5 a : a breach of a moral or social code : sin, misdeed b : an infraction of law; especially : misdemeanor

Reading the above definitions I can see circumstances where it can be "offense" is describing the person who offends or the person getting offended. In the case of number 1 & 5 it merely describes what has been done: ie. someone has offended someone by doing something wrong, and it doesn't define offense by the reaction of that person. I see this type of offense unavoidable (unless we let our moral code become non-existant).
However in number 2, 3 & 4, the person who is offended is described because of their negative reaction to the person offending.

Yes we shouldn't be outraged (#2) but we can't be in the wrong if we think it is wrong because someone broke our moral/social code and our reaction is that we recognise this, harbour no bad feelings, forgive them.
We shouldn't be offeded at the people, but I don't see what is wrong about being offended by their action: "love the sinner, hate the sin".

I guess when I say offended I'm thinking of "yelling, screaming, throwing fits, making false accusations, holding grudges, etc.. When I see a wrong being done, especially to the innocent, such as when I worked with abused and neglected kids, I would not necessarily say I was offended, yet I would stand up for them in a heartbeat. If I saw someone being abused, I would be there in a minute to help...so I see what you're saying there. I think the scripture in the OP was dealing mostly with the offenses we take just because our pride or ego gets hurt and then we react in kind.

 

[He put me back together]

For modern English, "offend" is a poor translation choice in this passage. Jesus was offended when He saw what was going on in the Temple. Who's fault was that?

A proper translation would read more like this: "...nothing causes them to stumble." The point is not that the righteous will never get angry or flipped out. Jesus got flipped out about a good number of things! But He didn't stumble in His righteousness. That is the difference. He got angry--He didn't sin. We are to be the same way. There are lots of things in this world to be angry about. But He is able to keep us from stumbling.

 

[freeport]

Greetings Happy Thursday 09/10/09 to all.

Here is a scripture verse I found myself pondering earlier this morning as I was driving home from a trip.

PS 119:165 "Great peace have they who love thy law: and nothing shall offend them."

​

Question: According to this verse, who's fault is it when we take up offenses? Feel free to explain your thoughts on the issue.

I never get offended... even my wife admits that.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

For modern English, "offend" is a poor translation choice in this passage. Jesus was offended when He saw what was going on in the Temple. Who's fault was that?

A proper translation would read more like this: "...nothing causes them to stumble." The point is not that the righteous will never get angry or flipped out. Jesus got flipped out about a good number of things! But He didn't stumble in His righteousness. That is the difference. He got angry--He didn't sin. We are to be the same way. There are lots of things in this world to be angry about. But He is able to keep us from stumbling.

That's interesting because there's a comparison of the word "venom" (??) I think it was that showed that the same word from the OT meant a reaction unsimilar to that of the NT where it merely caused grief less the reaction.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I never get offended... even my wife admits that.

I wonder if women find it easier to get offended or if men do or if there is no difference?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I never get offended... even my wife admits that.

I very rarely get offended. I use to get offended a lot, but when the Lord started reminding me of that verse every time I did I was spending so much time in His word that He's worked quite a bit of it out of me. Of course I know there are probably some crevices He has not revealed to me yet, but I just keep in His Word and He keeps doing His thing on me. He's good at that.

 

[EmmyLu]

I guess when I say offended I'm thinking of "yelling, screaming, throwing fits, making false accusations, holding grudges, etc.. When I see a wrong being done, especially to the innocent, such as when I worked with abused and neglected kids, I would not necessarily say I was offended, yet I would stand up for them in a heartbeat. If I saw someone being abused, I would be there in a minute to help...so I see what you're saying there. I think the scripture in the OP was dealing mostly with the offenses we take just because our pride or ego gets hurt and then we react in kind.

I agree. And yeah, I would say when people have wronged the innocent and you stand up them is a good example of offense that some people dont think of as offense, and its good.
It's just frustrating when the church come up with restricting one-liners "a Christian should never be offeneded" - I have come to know a few of them and this one has been brought up at my church recently so thanks for the chat about it, now I have an easy way to explain it to others.
Bless you,
Emma

 

[ELSHADDAI]

John Bevere says that offense is the "bait of satan". We can choose to take the "bait" or not.

An awesome book, Offense is taken and not given

 

[probinson]

I had a vision.

A while back, I was reading these forums, and I was highly offended. People were saying all kinds of things about me and my beliefs that were just flat out untrue and offensive.

Then, my computer screen vanished before my eyes, and I was standing at Calvary.

I saw Jesus standing there as they spit on Him, lied about Him, beat Him, accused Him, laughed at Him... and with a Love that I can only begin to comprehend, the only thing my Lord and Savior said in response to all of that was, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Then, my computer screen was in front of me again, and I was reading the same offensive things, but now my internal response was very different...

The problem with taking offense is that it is self-serving and all about "me" and "my" offense. OTOH, when someone says something hurtful or offensive to us, it is a very different approach for us to say, "They must really have some hurt inside of them to respond to me like that. Forgive them Lord. They don't know what they're saying."

So no matter how offensive someone is being toward us, if we are "offended", it is our fault. Ultimately, we decide whether the offensive actions of others will "offend" us or not.

Can we do this? Not on our own. But by the Love of God that is alive on the inside of us, we have the ability to "pay no attention to a suffered wrong".

 

[nephilimiyr]

Excellent post Pete!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I had a vision.

A while back, I was reading these forums, and I was highly offended. People were saying all kinds of things about me and my beliefs that were just flat out untrue and offensive.

Then, my computer screen vanished before my eyes, and I was standing at Calvary.

I saw Jesus standing there as they spit on Him, lied about Him, beat Him, accused Him, laughed at Him... and with a Love that I can only begin to comprehend, the only thing my Lord and Savior said in response to all of that was, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Then, my computer screen was in front of me again, and I was reading the same offensive things, but now my internal response was very different...

The problem with taking offense is that it is self-serving and all about "me" and "my" offense. OTOH, when someone says something hurtful or offensive to us, it is a very different approach for us to say, "They must really have some hurt inside of them to respond to me like that. Forgive them Lord. They don't know what they're saying."

So no matter how offensive someone is being toward us, if we are "offended", it is our fault. Ultimately, we decide whether the offensive actions of others will "offend" us or not.

Can we do this? Not on our own. But by the Love of God that is alive on the inside of us, we have the ability to "pay no attention to a suffered wrong".

Thank you Pete. That was very encouraging.