Taking it out of context?

[Logicalthinker]

Goodbye, and God bless. Your interpretations are what I reject, and not you as a person or even as a believer, since Jesus did say that "whoever is not against us is for us." I wish you well, and no, it's not that I can't discuss the Bible with you, it's just that we see eye to eye on so few points that it becomes long and tedious doing explanations. And it becomes even more so in re-explaining positions after you have posted responses that were far afield from my actual comments.

I prefer to depart in peace rather than pursue this further, that's all.

In Christ

God Bless Rev. Wayne

 

[goodnewsinc]

is not a book of prose like the writings of human literature where "context" is a tool used to give better understanding. The Word of God is a scramble gram .. deliberately designed by God to prevent unauthorized men from discovering its contents! The very thing you charge is the WAY Father teaches those He "authorizes" as His own students. You can go to all the Bible schools and seminaries that you want and THEY CANNOT TEACH YOU THE TRUTH! There is a SEAL over the Word and no man can break it!

Isaiah 29:10. For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. 11. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: 12. And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. 13. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: 14. Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

Revelation 5:1. And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3. And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

So men claiming to be teachers and flashing "credentials" from man's Bible schools is human foolishness! You nor they can break the scriptures! God teaches His students the Word doing the very thing you noticed! He "hop scotches" though the texts "cherry picking" as He moves! If this offends anyone ... that fact is proof that God has not taught him the scriptures!

Isaiah 42:14. I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once. 15. I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools. 16. And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

Isaiah 28:9. Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11. For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It is that "here a little and there a little" style that you have noticed! You call it "taking scriptures out of context". Go to any of Paul's writings and you will observe THIS PATTERN when you document the PROOFS he used in his teaching. He "cherry picked" the OT in his arguments with the Jews and those whom he taught! Have a great learning day! If you look for the GOLDEN WORD, you will have to sift through Biblical writings and "separate the good from the bad" and the not so good. God has taught us that GOLD is rarely found among all the material substances that make up the earth. Blessed are those who PAN for it and are lead in their searching by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 20:1. For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2. And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3. And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4. And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5. Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. 6. And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7. They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

Isaiah 40:10. Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. 11. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

John 3:27. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Whatsoever is wrong men have received from human teachers and devils.

Isaiah 43:26. Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified. 27. Thy first father hath sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me. 28. Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.

Blessed are all those who have been taught the scriptures by the Father rather than men for they shall learn the lovingkindness of the Father and marvel at His "AMAZING GRACE"!

Psalm 31:18. Let the lying lips be put to silence; which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous. 19. Oh how great is thy goodness, which thou hast laid up for them that fear thee; which thou hast wrought for them that trust in thee before the sons of men!

1 John 2:27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

And men must be careful of "who" they hear. The devil has been known to imitate as a fake "holy spirit"! 2 Thessalonians 2:2-11.

John,
GOOD NEWS, Inc.

 

[elman]

Do we take your word for this or can you prove it without using sourses that are "tainted by man"?

All sources are tainted by men, but the Bible says God is a spirit.

 

[Ratiocination]

All sources are tainted by men, but the Bible says God is a spirit.

Well elman, we seem to have hit a road block, you can't say the bible is authored by man and then use it to prove something about God, that would lead to human kind picking and choosing from the scriptures the parts they like best and discarding the rest, and by your logic this would be perfectly acceptable to our creator who is capable of producing an entire universe the depth of which we can only guess, yet, according to you, he can't write a book.

What is the bible if it's not the work of the almighty God Jehovah.

 

[elman]

Originally Posted by elman
All sources are tainted by men, but the Bible says God is a spirit.

Well elman, we seem to have hit a road block, you can't say the bible is authored by man and then use it to prove something about God, that would lead to human kind picking and choosing from the scriptures the parts they like best and discarding the rest, and by your logic this would be perfectly acceptable to our creator who is capable of producing an entire universe the depth of which we can only guess, yet, according to you, he can't write a book.

The issue is not God's ability to write a book. The issue is did He write everything or anything in a book? Where did this rule come from that we cannot pick and chose what is from God and what is not from God? Is that your rule?

What is the bible if it's not the work of the almighty God Jehovah.

It is the work of men who were servants of God in some cases and inspired by divine truth in some cases and in other cases, not inspired by God and not servants of God. One can reasonably arrive at the possibility of God being non physical or supernatural without having to read it in the Bible, but the Bible does contain a lot of divine truth and when it says God is spirit and when it says God is loving and cannot lie, I believe it to be true.

 

[Ratiocination]

The issue is not God's ability to write a book. The issue is did He write everything or anything in a book? Where did this rule come from that we cannot pick and chose what is from God and what is not from God? Is that your rule?

Rev. 22:18.

You could argue that this only refers to the book of Revelation, and that would be a sound argument, but the you'd have to conceed that the book of revelation is the innerant teaching of God! would you do that?

It is the work of men who were servants of God in some cases and inspired by divine truth in some cases and in other cases, not inspired by God and not servants of God.

Perhaps you've never found answers to questions that you feel contradict other portions of the bible. Scripturally speaking that's no reason to disregard the authority of the entire scripture, or even a part of it.

One can reasonably arrive at the possibility of God being non physical or supernatural without having to read it in the Bible,

100% agreed! but this is whether the bible has the authority to teach such things, the arguments for "God" in the world are not scriptural they are scientific, mans sciences change almost day by day, but the bible remains the same.

but the Bible does contain a lot of divine truth and when it says God is spirit and when it says God is loving and cannot lie, I believe it to be true.

Thats the point. How do you know these things are not the mere teachings of man unless you accpet the bible as the inerrant word of God. You seem to look at the world for support of the bible! Where does it say we should do this in the scriptures?

 

[elman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by elman

The issue is not God's ability to write a book. The issue is did He write everything or anything in a book? Where did this rule come from that we cannot pick and chose what is from God and what is not from God? Is that your rule?

Rev. 22:18.

You could argue that this only refers to the book of Revelation, and that would be a sound argument, but the you'd have to conceed that the book of revelation is the innerant teaching of God! would you do that?

Or I could argue that is not from God or at least it is not in the sense you are interpreting it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
It is the work of men who were servants of God in some cases and inspired by divine truth in some cases and in other cases, not inspired by God and not servants of God.

Perhaps you've never found answers to questions that you feel contradict other portions of the bible. Scripturally speaking that's no reason to disregard the authority of the entire scripture, or even a part of it.

If I believe that God never lies, then I have reason to disbelieve a so called scripture that says God sent lying spirits from His throne to decieve men. How did the authority of the entire scripture get established? Who established it? When?


Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
One can reasonably arrive at the possibility of God being non physical or supernatural without having to read it in the Bible,

100% agreed! but this is whether the bible has the authority to teach such things, the arguments for "God" in the world are not scriptural they are scientific, mans sciences change almost day by day, but the bible remains the same.

Science books don't change either. They simply replace them with updated versions. The arguments for God in the world are not scientific. Science argues against the existence of God for the most part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elnam
but the Bible does contain a lot of divine truth and when it says God is spirit and when it says God is loving and cannot lie, I believe it to be true.

Thats the point. How do you know these things are not the mere teachings of man unless you accpet the bible as the inerrant word of God. You seem to look at the world for support of the bible! Where does it say we should do this in the scriptures?

I don't know but I accept on faith, just as you don't know the Bible to be inerrant but you accept that theology on faith. Paul said we were to seek God Acts 17 and He is not far from us. When He said that I don't recall His saying you were to seek Him by reading the New Testament. How did Paul expect the people in Athens to seek God?

 

[Ratiocination]

Or I could argue that is not from God or at least it is not in the sense you are interpreting it.

I see a serious flaw in your logic elman. A couple of posts back I used Matthew 23:33, you couldn’t understand why I used that text so I thought I’d explain it a bit better now.
That text has Jesus telling those disobedient Scribes and Pharisees that they couldn’t escape the judgement of Gehenna, they interpreted Jesus Christ as being a false prophet of the law, and they eventually played a part in his death. As we know Jesus fulfilled everything written about him proving them to be utterly wrong, now if we follow your logic those Pharisees were completely innocent of any blame, all they did was interpret the scriptures their way, accepting what sounded good, and disregarding what sounded bad!
According to you the bible is a pick ‘n’ mix of truth and the Pharisees decided to not pick the parts that taught that Jesus was the messiah, but chose to pick the parts that they liked the sound of. Where they wrong for killing the greatest man to ever live? If so why?

If I believe that God never lies, then I have reason to disbelieve a so called scripture that says God sent lying spirits from His throne to decieve men. How did the authority of the entire scripture get established? Who established it? When?

If you’re referring to 1kings 22:23 then a quick lesson in Hebrew may well be needed. There it says that God put a lying spirit in to them, but the Hebrew verb “put” is often translated as “allowed”, “permitted”. Etc. Jehovah has been allowing wickedness for the last 6000 years and this verse explains that.

P.S. The bible gets it’s authority from it’s inerrant contents, if there are errors then the whole bible in untrustworthy and our faith in it is easily crushed by questions from opposes such as “are you sure that’s the part that God authored”, it’s a very weak faith!!!

The bible does contain some copyist errors in the early books, but these just involve the transmission of numbers (not the book)through hundreds of years of transmission as their numbers were written using dots that easily faded and became unreadable. The languages of the bible are not made up of dots but comprehensible words that were distintive and unique and to date have not become unreadable.

 

[elman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
Or I could argue that is not from God or at least it is not in the sense you are interpreting it.

I see a serious flaw in your logic elman. A couple of posts back I used Matthew 23:33, you couldn’t understand why I used that text so I thought I’d explain it a bit better now.
That text has Jesus telling those disobedient Scribes and Pharisees that they couldn’t escape the judgement of Gehenna, they interpreted Jesus Christ as being a false prophet of the law, and they eventually played a part in his death. As we know Jesus fulfilled everything written about him proving them to be utterly wrong, now if we follow your logic those Pharisees were completely innocent of any blame, all they did was interpret the scriptures their way, accepting what sounded good, and disregarding what sounded bad!
According to you the bible is a pick ‘n’ mix of truth and the Pharisees decided to not pick the parts that taught that Jesus was the messiah, but chose to pick the parts that they liked the sound of. Where they wrong for killing the greatest man to ever live? If so why?

So is your interpretation the same as the Pharisee's or is mine, if my interpretation is we should be loving each other and not killing each other? It was not the pick and choose parts of scripture that got the Pharisees in trouble with Jesus. It was their being unloving to people and being hypocrites and it was not misinterpretation of scripture that was their problem but their actions in an effort to preserve their position of power. My interpretation of Jesus Chirst is not the same as the Pharisees.


Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
If I believe that God never lies, then I have reason to disbelieve a so called scripture that says God sent lying spirits from His throne to decieve men. How did the authority of the entire scripture get established? Who established it? When?

If you’re referring to 1kings 22:23 then a quick lesson in Hebrew may well be needed. There it says that God put a lying spirit in to them, but the Hebrew verb “put” is often translated as “allowed”, “permitted”. Etc. Jehovah has been allowing wickedness for the last 6000 years and this verse explains that.

Yes God has always allowed us to do the wrong thing. Read closer, this lying spirit came from the throne of God and was on a mission from God, not just allowed by God.

P.S. The bible gets it’s authority from it’s inerrant contents, if there are errors then the whole bible in untrustworthy and our faith in it is easily crushed by questions from opposes such as “are you sure that’s the part that God authored”, it’s a very weak faith!!!

I disagree. I think it is a weak faith that is not willing to think for yourself and wants someone to tell you what is true and what is not.

The bible does contain some copyist errors in the early books, but these just involve the transmission of numbers (not the book)through hundreds of years of transmission as their numbers were written using dots that easily faded and became unreadable. The languages of the bible are not made up of dots but comprehensible words that were distintive and unique and to date have not become unreadable

.
That is only one of the reasons for errors. Another is such things as we do not even know the defintions of some 25% of the original Hebrew and must guess at the defintion of some words based entirly on context. Note I said guess. There are many reasons for the errors that exist and it does not serve the cause of Christianity to know of these errors and deny their existence based on remaining true to a doctrine of man that the Bible is inerrant.

 

[Ratiocination]

So is your interpretation the same as the Pharisee's or is mine, if my interpretation is we should be loving each other and not killing each other? It was not the pick and choose parts of scripture that got the Pharisees in trouble with Jesus. It was their being unloving to people and being hypocrites and it was not misinterpretation of scripture that was their problem but their actions in an effort to preserve their position of power. My interpretation of Jesus Chirst is not the same as the Pharisees.

You must admit that it does sound like your interpretation of the scripture was very similar to the Pharisees seeing that Jesus never made excuses for scripture but used the scriptures to reason logically with the people he was teaching.
Yes it was the “pick and choose” parts that got then into trouble elman, they thought that the messiah had come to “fulfil the law and finish off sin” in their way. They misinterpreted the scriptures and finally had their part in killing the Son of God. Your argument was that God would forgive us for erroneous doctrine, did God hint that these one would be forgiven???

Yes God has always allowed us to do the wrong thing. Read closer, this lying spirit came from the throne of God and was on a mission from God, not just allowed by God.

Allowed by the throne of God, or God’s mission to allow wickedness for a time. What’s the problem here elman?
BTW, where do you get “mission” in this verse?

I disagree. I think it is a weak faith that is not willing to think for yourself and wants someone to tell you what is true and what is not.

Everything you profess to believe is weak because it rests on the premise that YOU are correct that God authored the scripture that YOU believe in, that basically means that your faith rests on the chance that you are right!!!!!!
.

That is only one of the reasons for errors. Another is such things as we do not even know the defintions of some 25% of the original Hebrew and must guess at the defintion of some words based entirly on context. Note I said guess. There are many reasons for the errors that exist and it does not serve the cause of Christianity to know of these errors and deny their existence based on remaining true to a doctrine of man that the Bible is inerrant.

25%! Who on earth told you that? Lets not forget the bible was not the only thing to be written in original Hebrew.

 

[elman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
So is your interpretation the same as the Pharisee's or is mine, if my interpretation is we should be loving each other and not killing each other? It was not the pick and choose parts of scripture that got the Pharisees in trouble with Jesus. It was their being unloving to people and being hypocrites and it was not misinterpretation of scripture that was their problem but their actions in an effort to preserve their position of power. My interpretation of Jesus Chirst is not the same as the Pharisees.

You must admit that it does sound like your interpretation of the scripture was very similar to the Pharisees seeing that Jesus never made excuses for scripture but used the scriptures to reason logically with the people he was teaching.

I don't admit Jesus was unhappy with them for picking and choosing out of scripture. Jesus was unhappy with them for being hypocritical and unloving.

Yes it was the “pick and choose” parts that got then into trouble elman, they thought that the messiah had come to “fulfil the law and finish off sin” in their way. They misinterpreted the scriptures and finally had their part in killing the Son of God. Your argument was that God would forgive us for erroneous doctrine, did God hint that these one would be forgiven???

It was not erroneous doctrine that was the problem for the Pharasees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
Yes God has always allowed us to do the wrong thing. Read closer, this lying spirit came from the throne of God and was on a mission from God, not just allowed by God.

Allowed by the throne of God, or God’s mission to allow wickedness for a time. What’s the problem here elman?
BTW, where do you get “mission” in this verse?

If a lying spirit is sent from God and His thone, why would that not be a mission for God?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
I disagree. I think it is a weak faith that is not willing to think for yourself and wants someone to tell you what is true and what is not.

Everything you profess to believe is weak because it rests on the premise that YOU are correct that God authored the scripture that YOU believe in, that basically means that your faith rests on the chance that you are right!!!!!!

My faith does rest on the assumption that God is loving and that He created me to me loving. What does your faith rest on that is contrary to that?
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
That is only one of the reasons for errors. Another is such things as we do not even know the defintions of some 25% of the original Hebrew and must guess at the defintion of some words based entirly on context. Note I said guess. There are many reasons for the errors that exist and it does not serve the cause of Christianity to know of these errors and deny their existence based on remaining true to a doctrine of man that the Bible is inerrant.

25%! Who on earth told you that? Lets not forget the bible was not the only thing to be written in original Hebrew.

That was a percentage I read, I think from some notes in the NIV. What percentage do you claim we don't now know the meaning of and have to guess at? Do you believe there are no original Hebrew words the meaning of which has been lost in antiquity?

 

[Ratiocination]

I don't admit Jesus was unhappy with them for picking and choosing out of scripture. Jesus was unhappy with them for being hypocritical and unloving.

So when they killed the Son of God for being a false prophet according to their interpretation of the law, this was all good?

Matthew 22:41-45 41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together Jesus asked them: 42 “What do YOU think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him: “David’s.” 43 He said to them: “How, then, is it that David by inspiration calls him ‘Lord,’ saying, 44 ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’? 45 If, therefore, David calls him ‘Lord,’ how is he his son?” ​

Was their doctrine true or false?

Romans 10:1-2 . . .. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge; ​

My faith does rest on the assumption that God is loving and that He created me to me loving. What does your faith rest on that is contrary to that?
.

That’s about all your faith does rest on elman, therefore it’s weak. My faith rests also on Jehovahs power, his perfect knowledge, his right to rule, his sovereignty, his Justice etc. I don’t stop at a wishy washy faith in God that may or may not be true, my faith is complete, it needs some fine tuning but the foundation is well established.

That was a percentage I read, I think from some notes in the NIV. What percentage do you claim we don't now know the meaning of and have to guess at? Do you believe there are no original Hebrew words the meaning of which has been lost in antiquity?

0%, as the entire Hebrew text was translated thousands of years ago into Greek, commonly known as the Septuagint, therefore original meanings could have easily been disputed among the early Greek/Hebrew speaking Christians… they weren’t! This was an original copy from one language to another, at a time when both languages were spoken. It’s like arguing that because someone translated German to English, the original meaning of the German was unknown.

perhaps you could tell everyone what the Greek meaning for the word "put" was?

 

[stranger]

A religion is the place where people learn about God. It is not to defy God at all. Or it is not his religion.

Rather a religion [in this world] is where one can hear one of tens of thousands of tales by Satan in place of God's truth , since Satan is in power now [Rev 13:3-8] over the secular and over religion ,BOTH!

It is simple to prove by the division of religion which woud speak one truth if it came from God... since it does not speak just one truth it is not the one truth of God..

and ironically when religion finally does speak with one voice, some three and a half years before Jesus' return, religion will be united i teaching Satan's image of a saviour , not God's gospel in scripture of the Messiah of Israel. [even though the antichrist will eb a Jew, as Jesus was a Jew]

Thus religion simply never is where to learn about God, the saints are taught by God :-

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

by baptism of the spirit to know the truth [John 16:13]

And the saints alone then could teach teh truth to sinners, but men have elected sinners to teach men, established whole priesthoods of sinners who are not of Jesus' order of Melchisedec , but of orders invented by men of which the bible says NOTHING WHATSOEVER ! ...

why believe sinners by following any religion of sinners ?

rqually the bible gives some of teh truth of God, but it cannot give it all, one will not know God until spirit baptsm , which is promised to all men -Joel 2:28- so why not be patient, learn what one can from scripture, ignore religion of men, and wait on God to give one His truth at the RIGHT time.... patience, required by saints too ! One cannot gatecrash heaven , patience is the name of this task and men mostly do not have it...

 

[elman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
I don't admit Jesus was unhappy with them for picking and choosing out of scripture. Jesus was unhappy with them for being hypocritical and unloving.

So when they killed the Son of God for being a false prophet according to their interpretation of the law, this was all good?

No Killing people based on their disagreement with you on scripture is always bad.
Originally Posted by elman
My faith does rest on the assumption that God is loving and that He created me to me loving. What does your faith rest on that is contrary to that?
.

That’s about all your faith does rest on elman, therefore it’s weak.

That is what my faith rests on and therefore it is storng.

My faith rests also on Jehovahs power, his perfect knowledge, his right to rule, his sovereignty, his Justice etc. I don’t stop at a wishy washy faith in God that may or may not be true, my faith is complete, it needs some fine tuning but the foundation is well established.

Do you agree with James (3:2) that we all make many mistakes in our theology? Where are your mistakes? How do you know this is not one of them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elman
That was a percentage I read, I think from some notes in the NIV. What percentage do you claim we don't now know the meaning of and have to guess at? Do you believe there are no original Hebrew words the meaning of which has been lost in antiquity?

0%, as the entire Hebrew text was translated thousands of years ago into Greek, commonly known as the Septuagint, therefore original meanings could have easily been disputed among the early Greek/Hebrew speaking Christians… they weren’t! This was an original copy from one language to another, at a time when both languages were spoken. It’s like arguing that because someone translated German to English, the original meaning of the German was unknown.

No it is not like that at all. I suspect there are original Hebrew words, the meaning of which have been lost and I suspect the reason you are unaware of this is you don't have a complete knowledge of history on this point.

perhaps you could tell everyone what the Greek meaning for the word "put" was?

Nope it all greek to me.

 

[Logicalthinker]

posted wrong place. Sorry.

 

[stranger]

I have noticed that a lot of the things that have been posted to support Universal Salvation have been taking out of context. Are there any full verses that support it?


(I am now Agnostic and awaiting icon change, therefore I might not be able to complete the conversation, I will PM).

There are many, but this yielding of all power to Jesus as Lord of all is rather more emphasised in that it emphsises that all creation, not just men, is redeemed to God thrugh accepting Jesus eventually [just not all at the same time] :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

 

[Boxmaker]

There are many, but this yielding of all power to Jesus as Lord of all is rather more emphasised in that it emphsises that all creation, not just men, is redeemed to God thrugh accepting Jesus eventually [just not all at the same time] :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

And there is another verse taken out of context to support universal salvation.

No, there is not a single verse that directly supports universal salvation

 

[stranger]

And there is another verse taken out of context to support universal salvation.

No, there is not a single verse that directly supports universal salvation

In what sense can that be out of context ?