So first it was all sorts of churches over 33 years of life, and now when questioned further, it’s just the one Baptist minister, and up into your 20’s? Why does the story take on a different tack from one page to the next?
Like I said the JW's told me about it. I still have not heard any other religions say any thing about it, until you said you teach it. That's the first other than JW's
I'm going to be 34 soon and most religions teach that as soon as you die off to heaven with you., "Don't worry Grandmas in heaven" What ever. That is a lie people tell their children all the time. The truth is she is sleeping until judgment day.
So then, when he said “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father,” what He was really saying was, “If you have seen my goal, you have seen the Father’s goal?” That hardly seems likely.
Well if you see me you have seen my father. Does not make us one.
An irrelevant point, for what is the word that went out? “TO ME every knee will bow.” The same thing that is said of Jesus. By focusing on the first part of the verse and ignoring the last, you have not taken into consideration what the verse says at all. It clearly has Jehovah saying, “TO ME every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall take an oath,” the same thing that is said of Jesus in the NT.
That is right every knee will bow to both of them. Jesus is the King of Kings. He will be bowed to. Jehovah will be bowed to even by his son. So yes every knee will bow to them both. But not as a combined God Head.
How so? If Jesus is God, He is not a mere man, which is what the verse speaks of. Besides, If Jesus is God, then your objection is saying that it’s a contradiction for God to see God, which makes no sense at all. (And don't blame me for it, I'm simply applying the logic you use in your objections).
I was not talking about God seeing God. I was talking about all the humans that saw Jesus. That would mean they saw God. That would make John a liar.
Lets not get confused, Let's track my logic with man made doctrine. People call Mary, the mother of God. So therefore Jesus is God. Humans saw Jesus. Which means humans saw God. Which than makes John a liar.
I know he is not a liar. No man has ever seen God. Ever. Not even a little. Never. Not even once.
Like I said if a religion contradicts the bible it is a false religion.
How did you miss “one body, and one SPIRIT?” And after all this running around that you did, did you really think I would forget that the starting point at which you did this circumlocution was Isaiah 9:6, where Jesus is called the “everlasting Father?” You still haven’t shown anything of any substance to counter the fact that the Son is called by the same appellations as are common to the Father. Another one comes to mind as well
.
I didn't. That is talking about man not Jesus, God, or the holy spirit.
Man has one body and spirit. I didn't think you would miss anything nor am I trying to mislead anyone. I just want people see false religion.
Rev. 1:8---“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Rev. 1:11---“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last”
Rev. 1:17-18---“I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.
These are all said by Jesus Christ.
You got these verses from the apostate bible. The King James Bible. Which is fine, the truth is still in it. You just have to dig deeper.
Any ways if Jehovah's name was still in there where it belongs you would see that this is God Speaking not Jesus. Look up the Greek. and cross reference. You will be surprised. They took Gods name out only in the places that it would interfere with man made doctrine, But kept his name in other places in the bible. If it is good in some places it should have been good for all places. That is man's attempt to confuse who is talking so they can prove the man made doctrine of the trinity. They would rather save face than be wrong. We saw that same philosophy with the pedophile incident.
Where Jehovah was left in the King James Bible.
Exodus 6:3, Psalms 83:18, Isaiah 12:2, 26:4, Genesis 22:14, Exodus 17:15 and Judges 6:24.
Why not keep his name in the whole bible? Why take it out only in some places? If they did not like his name, they would have taken it out everywhere. Smells like a cover up.
Isa. 41:4---“I, the Lord, am the First; and with the last I am He.”
Isa. 44:6---“I am the First and I am the Last; beside me there is no God.”
Isa. 48:12---“I am the First; I am also the Last.”
These are all said by Jehovah. There’s more.
Yep this is Jehovah too.
Isa. 43:11---“I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no Savior.”
Hosea 13:4---“I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and you shall know no God but me; for beside me there is no Savior.”.
Agreed. Without God there would have been no Savior. He did make Jesus and send him. Jesus says he did not send himself but the father sent him. So truly God is the Savior. If he never sent Jesus where would we be?
These are said by Jehovah. They state that there is no Savior but God
John 8:24---“If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
John 3:18---“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, for he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
These are said by Jesus. They state that He alone is Savior.
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You talked down to me for only highlighting somethings in a verse and you totally skip stuff. You post John 8:24 as though he is saying he is God. Who truly takes things out of context here. Lets look at the verses.
John 8:23-27 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you
from the beginning. ( he is the son of God.) 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but
he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of
him.
See he was not claiming to be God. He was claiming to be the Messiah. God sent him. What did he call himself from the beginning. Son, Word or Lord. Not Jehovah.
John 3:18
I agree that you have to believe in Christ to have everlasting life. That verse does not say he is God. It does say he is the son of God. Or was he lying.
Of course he doesn't lie so he must be the son of God.
But the JW’s, of course, have their own version of this verse in the NWT, which is how they get around what it truly says.
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Use the bible to interpret itself. All interpretations are Gods. So you use Gods word to interpret what is said. Mans interpretations are not welcomed by God. Hence the Trinity.
Genesis 40:8 And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them,
Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.
John 10:30-36 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said,
Ye are gods? 35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said,
I am the Son of God?
It was ok to call ministers gods. Jesus was a minister, high priest, and anointed. Plus the son of God. Yes he did deserve to be called a god.
I can’t believe this. Are you suggesting that by “no other doctrine" in verse 3, Paul was referring to what he had just said in verse 2?? There are two obvious problems with that, automatically: (1) Verse 2 is not a doctrinal statement at all, it is a formal greeting. You can’t formulate a rejection of Trinitarian doctrine with a freewheeling analysis of a verse of greeting; and (2) Your interpretation violates the very spirit of this thread, because you have incorrectly removed Paul’s introductory phrase of verse 3 from its true context which follows in vv. 3 and 4, about standing against attempts of others to teach fables and genealogies..
Whats the problem with it. No one is to teach other doctrine. If you don't like that verse here.
2 John 1:9-10 9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
Matthew 15:9-11 9 But
in vain they do worship me,
teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Following the doctrine of man over the doctrine of God.
Can you show me where I would find the word Trinity in the bible?
Can you show me where I could find the word Godhead attached to Jesus in the bible?
Can you show me a verse where the holy ghost is seen or speaks?
The holy Ghost is Gods influence and power on man. It is God.
Nobody said “Jesus is His own Father.” There is the separation of personalities within the Godhead, but not a separation of essence. Jesus is no less God for being the Son of God, but He is distinctly the Son of God, and yet is God. The same pronouncements are made in many places about Jesus as are made about God, as has been shown. The same is true of the Holy Spirit, He is referred to as the “Spirit of God,” and as the “Spirit of Christ.”.
Can you show me a verse where the holy ghost is seen or speaks?
Jesus in His pre-incarnate existence was “in the form of God” and “equal with God.” Yet He chose to “take the form of a servant,” and being thus willing, “emptied Himself.” He surrendered temporarily the prerogatives and the “form” He had in co-existence with God, and came to be born upon the earth. The exaltation was a restoration of what He already had before, with the addition that now His name is exalted above all others..
He was not God. Look.
John1:1-3 1 In the
beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was god. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
He was in the beginning with God. It clearly states he was in the beginning with God. He did not choose to come here. God sent him.
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and
sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
God sent Jesus. plus notice the clear separation of the two. Notice he claims to be the son of God. Not God. So is he being dishonest?
If I went to my sons birthday party and claimed to be him, and took all the glory and presents for myself, would that not be dishonest. Wouldn't that be deceiving people? Why would Jesus not be honest about himself being God? Why?
I don't think Jesus lied to us or ever tried to deceive us. He would not break Gods laws.
And your objections are of the straw man variety. No one is saying God “exalted Himself,” He of course exalted God the Son, who is of the same essence though separate in personality. No one is saying “God is Jesus,” as per your objection, so “how can He be Jesus” is a challenge to something not even claimed. They are of the same divine essence, and so many things are said of them interchangeably. Jesus in the prediction in Isaiah 9:6 is called “everlasting Father.” That does not thereby “make Him the Father,” it just makes valid the use of Father with Him on account of His co-essence in God. God says “beside me there is no Savior.” That does not thereby make Him the one who endured death on the cross, as says Patripassianism, it simply means that He shares in the role of Savior because of His co-essence with the Son. The Holy Spirit is called both “Spirit of God” and “Spirit of Christ” because of His co-essence with both.
At his baptism is where his pre-existence came back to him. That is why he took off in the wilderness for 40 days. To get his thoughts together.
It is very clear that Jesus knew what was going to happen to him, his mission and fulfillment of prophecy. He knew things about heaven, the father, Satan and much much more. It is very clear he knew of his pre-existence. He was exalted after he was crucified and raised from the dead. The King of Kings, Redeemer and Avenger of God.
Yes the holy Spirit is in all living things. Some listen to it and some don't. But yes, God is in everyone of us, including Jesus.
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