Taking every thought captive? An impossibility? Not on your life!

marshaka777

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Thank you. I don't believe in 'extreme grace' either in the sense some people explain it. They take Paul's remarks out of context when he is comparing the works of the Mosaic Law with the grace and forgiveness of God in Christ. Forgiveness was an unheard of concept to the people in the hour of Christ in the world. There was only the works of the law and the sacrifices for sin established in the law. Christ introduced 'forgiveness'. Which Paul also pointed out, if a man sin willfully after receiving that grace, there remained no more sacrifice for sin but a fiery looking forward to judgment. As another writer penned, 'faith without the works of faith is dead'.
The original post, I'm clueless about what that could be.
 
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Alithis

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OP= original post I think.

'Extreme grace' I think means those who believe salvation is not by works, rather the grace and gift of God.

:)

almost... but thats Grace.

extreme grace is more what you find on the libera forums.
it is a stance i believe to be greatly erroneous .
it is when people teach that you can do whatever you like ,carry on in sin etc because you have been saved and cannot lose salvation.

yes i think the op is against it..
i oppose the extremepart also,knowing that obedience in christ is the basis of how one remains "in"him.
 
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Alithis

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Thank you. I don't believe in 'extreme grace' either in the sense some people explain it. They take Paul's remarks out of context when he is comparing the works of the Mosaic Law with the grace and forgiveness of God in Christ. Forgiveness was an unheard of concept to the people in the hour of Christ in the world. There was only the works of the law and the sacrifices for sin established in the law. Christ introduced 'forgiveness'. Which Paul also pointed out, if a man sin willfully after receiving that grace, there remained no more sacrifice for sin but a fiery looking forward to judgment. As another writer penned, 'faith without the works of faith is dead'.
The original post, I'm clueless about what that could be.

marshaka777 when folks say "the OP" , we are referring to the first post in this thread . hence "original post.abbreviated.

the person who began this particular thread is called the "op" ,for short.
their post governs the general course of the thread topic.
so in this thread we try to stay on the topic of "taking every thought captive"

hope that helps:)
 
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marshaka777

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Michael, so nice to hear from you. Hope you're still doing well too. I see we agree on the 'grace' issue. Thanks for the explanation about the 'op' too.
In Jeremiah's day, those people who were pouring out drink offerings did it because they were receiving what they please. I see a parallel between that group and the self proclaimed Christians who are not Christians today. That is, they've been rewarded in some way or ways and that's why it doesn't shake their posture. Which is essentially what you described. Like as was true in Jeremiah's day, we're going to see the same 'reversals' take place soon. Neither shall it be of any short duration either. There is definitely a spirit in the matter. A false covering. Once God said, "They're soon going to find another lover under their covers that isn't the one I please." I've seen one such man close up and he went by what he 'felt'. He felt energized to do what Christ wills not to fulfill, and vice verse. He kept saying he was 'saved in '78'. Then he settled with a woman who believes in transmigration. She told him that we believe in a 'lesser God'.
Last I heard he said he didn't think God likes him any more. I only get out about twice a year, so I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of what's happening in the world. But I do read the news, and a lot of comments from people, and I don't like how many people call belief in God believing in fairy tales. It does not bode well for the nation. The only news from us three 'golden girls' is that sometimes when people ask God for something, it comes from an unexpected source. This links up with 'not discerning the body of Christ' too. Two weeks ago I was shown that Cindy needs to stop wearing the shoes she had on that day. The next time I saw her she was still wearing them. Came to learn that she had been having lower back pain and had asked God what she could do to alleviate it. So He showed to me she needed to stop wearing those shoes. It wasn't the way she expected to get an answer. That was our lesson for the week. Any news on your end?
 
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Alithis

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i am doing well,though without my saviour i am absolute in loss and with him absolute in hope.
while i was ill i had many turmoiled thoughts even of worse scenarios the i care to consider.
such thoughts were difficult to capture but during that time i listened to charles price preaching on romans ch 8.. and was reminded that God was not punishing me ,as some thoughts accused ,but would work his good in me according to his benevolence to his glory .
so it was notable afterwards that my blood pressure needfully dropped 10 points and my weight by 6 kg.. (13lbs) both results extremely advantageous to my over all health.
the reason this is so notable is ,i was reminded that i had prayed a while back asking the lord to give me wisdom in regard to my (personal) overweight state... but had not(shameful stubborn man) listened to his prompting .so refusing his wisdom i had asked for,my weight ballooned and health deteriorated accordingly.

we learn too often the difficult way ..
so many thoughts in need of discernment .

needless to add,my entire eating has turned about to nil processed sugar,& 90% of what i eat is fresh fruit and vegetable... a feat many thoughts had told me i could not achieve.. believing such thoughts deluded me ,barring the way to Gods greater good and perfect will.

all interesting in a most eternally beneficial manner .
 
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marshaka777

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Over weight issues have hounded me since a pituitary tumor ballooned me to 300 lbs when I was 28. The problem with weight gain, regardless of how it happened is that they say once you have fat cells, they want to be 'filled'. Making it too easy to gain after you've lost it. I lost that weight before I began trucking, but a few years ago I gained 50 lbs out of the blue. A PET scan revealed Adrenal nodes causing the same type of problem the pituitary tumor caused. And the gain came after a spinal fusion. I've recently lost 18 lbs and need to lose more. My 'thin' weight was 170 lbs due to muscle mass from body building. Now I'm guessing it's more like 150 bottom weight, so I need to lose 58 lbs probably. God told the three of us that He was going to regulate our eating and He has been doing so. We three were all over weight for 3 different reasons. He took us off of processed foods years ago. We chiefly do organics. I don't think our personal interactions are welcome here. If you email me at 'marshaka777@msn.com' I would be pleased to tell you the many great and simple recipes He's given to me. Very tasty stuff, and always learning more.
Thoughts have not been 'my' issues with food or anything else. They have however been plaguing my friends in the food arena especially. I told you about our long time cook. She was runway model tall & thin until she had kids. My roommate however was always heavy, and it has always been from food love. Now this IS on talking point here. She would spend her days at work thinking about food and what she wanted to make for dinner. Many times being told, "Stop seeing what you please to receive instead of what I'm willing you to fulfill." We're supposed to just 'wait' until He shows to us what to eat. It's not supposed to be a part of our thought process. In real terms, that is a huge part of their 'old wine' which God calls the devil's wills they were still not willing not to fulfill.
Renewing the mind is important, and an uphill battle when people won't let go of the steering wheel and let Christ drive. God is more than willing and able to take over every tiny aspect of our lives if we're more than willing to let Him do so. I PREFER the smart one, Him, to be in charge of all I do. Or think for that matter. For my friends it's been a struggle. Part of their issues is that God doesn't always do things according to our wisdom or understanding. Not mine either for that matter. He had me get a dish of ice cream the other day and I was SOoo thinking it would work against my weight loss. Obedience is key in all things, so I did get it, reluctantly. and again in my life He repeated, "When it's what I'm willing you to fulfill, it CAN'T do what you're not willing." Very true, I lost more weight anyway.
Lastly, God is not about punishing us sincere followers, but at times we do need correcting. I always look for personal responsibility in a matter first. It's not a bad thing to do that. Like for example if I got a headache I would ask if I had thought something that gave Him a pain so I got one in return. Long ago I learned that our bodies can show signs of spiritual issues. Like for example maybe arthritic knees that can't bend pointing to an unwillingness to bow the knee to Christ in spirit. He taught me that a spirit of drunkenness is what needs to be addressed and the sign of alcoholism passes for the using. Christ's healing was spiritual first and foremost. The spiritually blind eyes were opened and the flesh eyes sign followed suit. The man unable to walk could not do so spiritually. Christ does a complete work. If you recall I pointed out to you that Paul's failing vision was a 'sign' he wasn't seeing well spiritually. I was physically blinded to show me specifically 'where' Paul missed the spiritual point. The husband is Christ and all His followers of both genders are the 'wife'. Not the carnal rendering Paul gave to it. ALL people of both genders are commanded to be under obedience to the husband 'Christ' at all times. By your criteria in this forum, thoughts contrary to that fact are not according to the knowledge of Christ. Yes, we three here are losing weight now. God dos not put us on diets and we need give no thought to calories or carbs or whatever. We just eat what He sets before us and He does the rest. He appoints the menus. He's never placed a limit on the amount we eat, but I've noticed that we've never wanted more than what was put on the plate or in the bowl. I studied nutrition for 2 1/2 years and have lots of worthless wisdom on the topic. God over turns the wisdom of man, even in that venue. The key is always obedience in all things at all times.
 
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Alithis

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a lot to take in ..i may reply later to parts.
one thing that came to mind just now is the absence of blinding neck head aches..wow i thought they were linked to a social anxiety.. perhaps rather to blood pressure and weight and a yoke of self condemnation i have carried..-i see that now due to things you just shared. i desire to praise him now.
for our lord and savior Jesus ,the living speaking of the father is forever our wondrous deliverer amen.
His thoughts are higher then ours his ways greater ,oh that we learn to trust his thoughts for they are beyond our grasping
 
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marshaka777

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We all suffer in similar and different ways what the Bible has called the 'flight of afflictions'. You notice that the things I shared about headaches for example are 'child' simple connect the dots? It would be dishonest to deny that I had an infantile mind. Until God was able to bring me to a greater maturity, He met me on that level. I once asked Him if He made people because He was lonely. He replied, "The devil is My only lonely". In years later as I traveled across Quebec I observed nothing but cathedrals dotting the landscape. When I wondered about it He said, 'That's My only lonelies one and only." Over the course of time I began to learn about 'signs' and symbols. You must remember that there is always persecution for righteousness sake too. But when it comes to headaches, that's when I always search my thought history. Or just ask if it was something I said. This was my first thought on your reply to me. You mentioned the weight of self condemnation. See, that is taking me full circle back to what my point was to the other fellow about his being too hard on himself. In this thing Paul was correct too, we cannot judge ourselves. Further, it is very important to not grab the steering wheel out of Christ's hands when it comes to our spiritual condition and our flesh condition. His agenda does not always line up with ours. He has differing priorities of what He wants to deal with. There have been things which greatly troubled me that I spoke to Him about and He would say, "When I will you to do My will, I won't will you to do those things." During one of my fat spells I asked Him about my losing weight. In turn He asked ME, 'why' did I want to lose weight? In a flash that question uncovered it was because I wanted to avoid job discrimination which He'd already proven to me years earlier He could thwart no matter what I looked like. As soon as I saw that, I dropped the subject. All of that said, I was shown years ago that excess weight can be a sign of a 'fat pride', carrying too much responsibility (not letting go of that steering wheel) 'eating' of too much sweets 'spiritually' (some folks day dream about 'sweet things' like winning the lottery, or what you and even I would call some wicked thoughts) and there is just plain persecution for righteousness sake too. He paralleled a junk food diet spiritually with a junk food diet in the flesh. The junk food diet spiritually being predominantly that of 'eating' TV, movies, fiction novels, etc. He explained that people are willed to "show what they know" in signs and symbols. More in depth on the topic, God uses that same 'system' to 'hide' people from higher powers. The young and tender sprouts, or what He once called, 'danger from the stranger in the manger'. IF that is the case of the excess weight, it is sending a MISLEADING sign to higher powers for our safety sake. There is a tremendous amount to learn about the war and some of the strategies God uses.
I can tell you're deeply devoted and sincere and would make yourself exactly like Christ if you could, as would I and many others. But there is a very real war that has heated up that tender sprouts are no match for it at this hour. God reminded me that Christ was born without sin and He was in training and upbringing for 30 years before His ministry. There is much He MUST do with and in us to do what He calls, 'prepare us for our unveiling'. Once you're unveiled, you would NOT be hidden from higher enemies. That takes huge preparation that likely few other than Christ have had.
Neither condemn nor congratulate yourself and let God handle your upbringing to Him. Most importantly of all, Christ's sacrifice gave to all people the opportunity to become sons of God and to ENJOY God. What a thrill to be able to know God Almighty as our Father!! Enjoy His companionship and His marvelous simplicity of mind that presents to us ingenious solutions to things daily. Years ago I resolved what seems to have been your struggle by realizing that God sees the hearts. He knows my devotion. Even if I was a total screw up, I KNOW that some day He can make me be whatever He wants me to be. Lastly it seems to me that what we shall be and where we shall be can be compared to our start here in the womb. In the womb we dwelt in darkness and we couldn't see the world we would emerge into which bears no resemblance to the womb. We couldn't 'see' our father, but we could hear His voice. We could become comfortable with our Dad's before we were birthed. So it is likely true of our birth out of the world and its darkness and into a new world that does not resemble this one. Though all in that new world would be unfamiliar to us, we shall KNOW our Father's voice and be comfortable with Him.
 
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marshaka777

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He just showed to me that you need to understand where I began to understand where I arrived. When Christ said we could become sons of God, to me that meant that God could be our Dad like He was Christ's Dad. I didn't have a bad Dad, or a mean Dad, but he wasn't always honest, and when kids were throwing rocks they said I did and I didn't, and he believed them and not me. I knew God is perfect and He knows everything and He can't make the mistakes Dad's make. Christ told Nicodemus to become as a child again and I signed up for that. That was what I wanted. For God to re-raise me like He raised Christ here. I didn't like to talk and my vocabulary was limited and terrible. I went through a very painful rough spot and I kept getting Bible passages to "Wait on the Lord"
I was a waitress at the time and I thought it meant serve and it was the only thing I truly did with all my heart. So I didn't 'get it'. God doesn't stoop to our colloquialisms just to be better understood and I had to learn what the word 'wait' meant. I always said, "Hang in there'. So there were some bumps in the road. But what 'I' understood the life of a child was, was total dependency upon the parents. No authority to even open the fridge much less grab food out of it. Whatever I had belonged to God and what He distributed to 'me'. Now I can see that differs little from what Christ meant by calling a man a 'steward'. One day God said to me, "The world is a mansion in the corner of My mind". Wow! I could tell He was very 'young'. At the end of all that He said I said, "Wow! You're so cool!! Preachers make you sound like an antiseptic cotton ball in the sky when they thunder, "God is SO holy He can't even LOOK upon sin!!" (God's own words in the Old T. refutes that) but the experience made me realize there is nothing God doesn't know and can't understand and nothing I couldn't talk to Him about. I then asked how come old Israel didn't get to 'see' Him the way I did? He said, "Daddy cool was not the will they could will then." A pivotal point for me was another hard spot when I was wishing Paul was around to talk to at the time. I saw myself something was very wrong with that picture since God was available all the time. Why would I prefer to talk to Paul?
God has greatly expanded my vocabulary since the gate with Him, and greatly enlarged my understanding of many things. But the one constant remains to be the total dependency. In the world we have a concept of growing up that should not be applied to our life with God. No matter how far I've come, there's still much further to go. I mean think about it. GOD , not a man, but GOD with His incomprehensible knowledge, wisdom, and power. We can't just easily grow into Christ's shoes as Christ now is. The greatest amount of time spent in the lives of most people is 'perfecting their obedience'. People are not allocated nearly enough time to grow to the stature Christ attained in the world. No matter who they are there are bumps in everyone's roads too. Bumps that God knows are not YOUR fault. God can do what I call plug His mind into ours and give us to understand perfectly as He understands a matter, in a flash. I LIKE that. But it's not the only way He teaches or reaches us. He's got an enormous job to undertake in a very anti-Christ world where w are raised to admire and taught to aspire to the very traits that thwart His progress with us. It's not a life of sacrifice and constant discipline when you love and enjoy God. There is a passage that reads, "Though shouldest BE content with what thou has." That describes a state of being, not a work of discipline. If I wasn't content I'd be asking Him 'why'? We can't make ourselves 'BE' what only God can form us to become. Christ is our bench mark. He is our measuring stick. Christ led a life of total submission and obedience to God. That is our whole duty. God orchestrates the rest of it. You do the first commandment and God does the rest. I often wonder if the other commandments were there as a way to see if you are where you're supposed to be. Nobody doing the first, and it has a two fold nature too, would even think about doing some of the other things on the list. Christ fulfilled the two fold nature of the commandments. He neither coveted nor caused or tempted another to covet. We can be led to do what pleases God by Christ. But it doesn't come naturally, easily, or even possibly to us to even be able to do the Golden Rule well. So don't be so hard on yourself either.
 
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Alithis

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He just showed to me that you need to understand where I began to understand where I arrived. When Christ said we could become sons of God, to me that meant that God could be our Dad like He was Christ's Dad. I didn't have a bad Dad, or a mean Dad, but he wasn't always honest, and when kids were throwing rocks they said I did and I didn't, and he believed them and not me. I knew God is perfect and He knows everything and He can't make the mistakes Dad's make. Christ told Nicodemus to become as a child again and I signed up for that. That was what I wanted. For God to re-raise me like He raised Christ here. I didn't like to talk and my vocabulary was limited and terrible. I went through a very painful rough spot and I kept getting Bible passages to "Wait on the Lord"
I was a waitress at the time and I thought it meant serve and it was the only thing I truly did with all my heart. So I didn't 'get it'. God doesn't stoop to our colloquialisms just to be better understood and I had to learn what the word 'wait' meant. I always said, "Hang in there'. So there were some bumps in the road. But what 'I' understood the life of a child was, was total dependency upon the parents. No authority to even open the fridge much less grab food out of it. Whatever I had belonged to God and what He distributed to 'me'. Now I can see that differs little from what Christ meant by calling a man a 'steward'. One day God said to me, "The world is a mansion in the corner of My mind". Wow! I could tell He was very 'young'. At the end of all that He said I said, "Wow! You're so cool!! Preachers make you sound like an antiseptic cotton ball in the sky when they thunder, "God is SO holy He can't even LOOK upon sin!!" (God's own words in the Old T. refutes that) but the experience made me realize there is nothing God doesn't know and can't understand and nothing I couldn't talk to Him about. I then asked how come old Israel didn't get to 'see' Him the way I did? He said, "Daddy cool was not the will they could will then." A pivotal point for me was another hard spot when I was wishing Paul was around to talk to at the time. I saw myself something was very wrong with that picture since God was available all the time. Why would I prefer to talk to Paul?
God has greatly expanded my vocabulary since the gate with Him, and greatly enlarged my understanding of many things. But the one constant remains to be the total dependency. In the world we have a concept of growing up that should not be applied to our life with God. No matter how far I've come, there's still much further to go. I mean think about it. GOD , not a man, but GOD with His incomprehensible knowledge, wisdom, and power. We can't just easily grow into Christ's shoes as Christ now is. The greatest amount of time spent in the lives of most people is 'perfecting their obedience'. People are not allocated nearly enough time to grow to the stature Christ attained in the world. No matter who they are there are bumps in everyone's roads too. Bumps that God knows are not YOUR fault. God can do what I call plug His mind into ours and give us to understand perfectly as He understands a matter, in a flash. I LIKE that. But it's not the only way He teaches or reaches us. He's got an enormous job to undertake in a very anti-Christ world where w are raised to admire and taught to aspire to the very traits that thwart His progress with us. It's not a life of sacrifice and constant discipline when you love and enjoy God. There is a passage that reads, "Though shouldest BE content with what thou has." That describes a state of being, not a work of discipline. If I wasn't content I'd be asking Him 'why'? We can't make ourselves 'BE' what only God can form us to become. Christ is our bench mark. He is our measuring stick. Christ led a life of total submission and obedience to God. That is our whole duty. God orchestrates the rest of it. You do the first commandment and God does the rest. I often wonder if the other commandments were there as a way to see if you are where you're supposed to be. Nobody doing the first, and it has a two fold nature too, would even think about doing some of the other things on the list. Christ fulfilled the two fold nature of the commandments. He neither coveted nor caused or tempted another to covet. We can be led to do what pleases God by Christ. But it doesn't come naturally, easily, or even possibly to us to even be able to do the Golden Rule well. So don't be so hard on yourself either.

emailed you..
 
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marshaka777

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Do hope it isn't too inconvenient for you to resend. This seems to be a new reply format here. Not sure how to use that either yet. Got some more on the 'thoughts' topic. Some things are what I guess you'd call 'battles' centered in the mind. Smoking and some eating 'habits' are mentally triggered when a person wants to stop them. Most folks recognize the cigarette after a meal, but once the person stops smoking they soon see there are dozens of other mental triggers or associations. I call it 'marriages' when food is the issue. Like if I can't have coffee without thinking 'donut', those two are a marriage. People usually can't think coffee, or tea without cigarette either. God's point to me is that the triggers fade out when the person is serious. We don't have to avoid coffee because we want to avoid a donut. We just have to wait it out and remind ourselves the donut message will fade away.
Long ago He explained to me 'why' people have issues in these areas. IF He wills a person not to do something, then that something becomes what the power of the air regards to be a 'no-no' across the board for all people. God doesn't want people 'condemned' or 'punished' for eating a donut or smoking
a cigarette.
 
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Alithis

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Do hope it isn't too inconvenient for you to resend. This seems to be a new reply format here. Not sure how to use that either yet. Got some more on the 'thoughts' topic. Some things are what I guess you'd call 'battles' centered in the mind. Smoking and some eating 'habits' are mentally triggered when a person wants to stop them. Most folks recognize the cigarette after a meal, but once the person stops smoking they soon see there are dozens of other mental triggers or associations. I call it 'marriages' when food is the issue. Like if I can't have coffee without thinking 'donut', those two are a marriage. People usually can't think coffee, or tea without cigarette either. God's point to me is that the triggers fade out when the person is serious. We don't have to avoid coffee because we want to avoid a donut. We just have to wait it out and remind ourselves the donut message will fade away.
Long ago He explained to me 'why' people have issues in these areas. IF He wills a person not to do something, then that something becomes what the power of the air regards to be a 'no-no' across the board for all people. God doesn't want people 'condemned' or 'punished' for eating a donut or smoking
a cigarette.

oh im short on time will read later..

Do this- click on the user name at the top of their post. a drop down list appears... choose "send private message" ..then type and send and only that person will see it .:)
 
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