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Taking Communion

K

Kolya

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Hi all my friends, and new members of TAW. I know I don't come here often anymore for personal reasons, but I'm still Othodox, and growing Spiritually slowly but surely by God's Mercy.

I don't wish to start an unneccessary controversy here, but I just want to share something I witnessed at Communion during Divine Liturgy today.

A bit of background first. Those who know me are aware that I belong to the Russian Orthodox Church MP. I had the priveledge of meeting our present Patriarch one week before he became the Patrarch while he was still our Metropolitan.

Back to today. Those who know the Russian Church are aware that they are very strict about how and when you may take the Eucharist. The MP is very strict that the Communicant does a confession no longer than 24 hours before taking Communion, and that the Communicant adheres to a strict fast from midnight before till they take part in Communion.

Before every Communion, our Priest states quite clearly in Russian, English and often in Greek too the conditions under which we may take the Eucharist. Today was no exception. But to our absolute amazement, one young lady chose to challenge our Priest on this. In front of a full church, with people still waiting in line, she proceeded to argue with our Priest for nearly five minutes why she should be allowed to take Communion.

The alter-boy holding the Red "wipe cloth" lives with us, so I know a lttle of the conversation between our Priest and the young woman. A few words were in English, though the major part of the altercation was in Greek. Father is fluent in Greek too. She stated that she needed the Eucharist, and was willing to confess after Divine Liturgy. Father stated the obvious that there was a Confession before DL and he did a second Confession for late comers just before the Communion too. She had no excuse really. But after this incident she ripped off her scarf (Yes she had put on a scarf, though most Greek woman visitors do not) stormed out of chruch in obvious embaresment, and left.

I know the Greek church are not as strict as we MP are over Confession before Communion, and I'm not throwing stones over our differences of belief. But the "Ground Rules" were addressed to the Parish before Communion. Was it necessary to go and "Test" the Priest over this matter in front of the assembly?

Forgive me

Kolya
 

Andrew21091

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I agree with Protoevangel. The woman was totally out of line when she did this. It shows a lack of respect for the customs of the parish and the priest and also the Eucharist.

Also, just like Protoevangel, I come from a diocese that also has more lenient rules concerning this.
 
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K

Kolya

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Let us be careful not to judge this woman who none of us other than Kolya have ever met, lest we be found guilty of a sin worse than the one she may have committed.

Well said Michael my old friend! I'm not judging her myself. I have no
right to. I've just put this out for personal self examination of our own behavior.
 
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Protoevangel

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Let us be careful not to judge this woman who none of us other than Kolya have ever met, lest we be found guilty of a sin worse than the one she may have committed.
Indeed!

We can know that the action was wrong, but we do not know her situation. We cannot judge her, but we can learn from what happened.
 
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Michael G

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Kolya, my attitude toward communion and confession and priests totally changed last year after an experience I had. I do not wish to state here what happened as I know I will be judged quite harshly. However, it was made very clear to me by the priest that is now my spiritual father that unless he tells me to not be at the chalice that he expects to see my face there every week. He then went on to express anger toward 2 priests who had denied me communion. Thus I think priests need to be very careful about how they behave and what kind of signals they send the faithful. The damage this priest might have caused to this woman's spiritual life and her trust in the Church may have been catastrophic. Priests are there for the salvation of their parishoners, not to act as judge and jury.
 
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Michael G

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Indeed!

We can know that the action was wrong, but we do not know her situation. We cannot judge her, but we can learn from what happened.


We do not know if this priest's stand on this matter is out of line. The priest has to worry about the salvation of this woman. His action might be wrong as he may have caused catastrophic damage to her spiritual life. If she doesn't return to church because of the action of this one priest then not only will she have to answer to God for it, but the priest will as well.
 
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K

Kolya

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Michael, I totally agree with your Spiritual Father, and I am praying for this woman in question.

BTW, we will have a new Priest before MP Nativity; our Priest is going to Zurich, Switzerland.

I wish and pray so often that we had a monastary near to us where I could find a real Spiritual Father. Alas, I live in the wilderness of Africa. So I have to make do with what God sends to me.:)
 
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ikonographics

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The problem with this strict Russian practice is when they refuse communion to people who have their spiritual father's blessing to commune. It happened to a group of Orthodox youth attending an official Orthodox youth event in Moscow some years ago.
 
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Michael G

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Michael, I totally agree with your Spiritual Father, and I am praying for this woman in question.

BTW, we will have a new Priest before MP Nativity; our Priest is going to Zurich, Switzerland.

I wish and pray so often that we had a monastary near to us where I could find a real Spiritual Father. Alas, I live in the wilderness of Africa. So I have to make do with what God sends to me.:)

My priest is a tonsured monk, inspite of being a parish priest. There are those on TAW who might not agree with me, but my priest is a very wise, humble and holy man.
 
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Protoevangel

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We do not know if this priest's stand on this matter is out of line. The priest has to worry about the salvation of this woman. His action might be wrong as he may have caused catastrophic damage to her spiritual life. If she doesn't return to church because of the action of this one priest then not only will she have to answer to God for it, but the priest will as well.
I see your point, I really do. I am not arguing with you in my post, I am just expanding my own thoughts on the subject.

I do think that challenging the priest at the challace was absolutely improper. If the priest had allowed communion to one he did not know, and did not know the spiritual state of, the consequences could have been even more catastrophic to her soul. Perhaps the priest could have offered to confess her and commune her immediately following the Divine Liturgy. Perhaps he did. I don't know.

I am not saying one model of confession/communion is right or wrong. I just mean that these conversations need to take place outside of the Divine Liturgy. If I am going to be at another parish, I will always try to contact the priest beforehand, especially if I am expecting to take Communion. With the number of jurisdictions in any single country now, the differences in practice can definitely be troubling. The conversation needs to happen.
 
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Protoevangel

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The problem with this strict Russian practice is when they refuse communion to people who have their spiritual father's blessing to commune. It happened to a group of Orthodox youth attending an official Orthodox youth event in Moscow some years ago.
Come on, let's not start taking swipes at other Jurisdictions practices. That's totally unnecessary.
 
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