Taking a break from the forum

[£amb]

When I was in seminary, I took one course entitled "Southern Baptist Heritage." I loved it, BTW, but it in this class that I learned just how bad liberalism was slipping into the Southern Baptist Seminaries. Dallas Theological Seminary, from what I learned, was once a strong Conservitive college. But from what I have seen come out of it here lately makes me wonder. But it's not just Dallas that it is getting to, I found out that nearly half of the professors at Southereastern Baptist Theological Seminary, in old Wake Forest Univeristy, did not sign the schools confession. Traditional Baptist teachings are being pushed aside to make room for more liberial, modern line of thought. There is even a push lately, to have a change to the new gender neutral Bible. Roger Whitefield would be rolling over in his grave if he was in it.
It really scares me to think just how far away the world is pulling the church away from Biblical teachings. That is why I stand up for the conservitives in the SBC. I want to start a trend of going back to the "old fashioned" values we were raised up on. Lets get back to "worship" where His name is lifted up in the service and in our lives. Let us not be afraid to go stand out on the street corner and proclaim the "acceptible year of the Lord." Let us stand up in the pulpits and preach pure doctrine based on Biblical teachings and not as it is directed from someone else. Liberialism in all its froms is evil because it seeks to undermind Biblical teachings and doctrine. The move to modernize the bible in light of modern times is wrong in my opinion. The Bible as a whole has lasted 2000 years in the from we have it, it has saved billions of lives, and will continue to save until He returns. Why tamper with what God has perfected?

Dmckay, I learned a valuable lesson here on the forums. I will stand on time honored tradition. I will stand up for what I believe. I may come under fire or it, but the way I see it,

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me." John 15:18-21

If they persecuted Jesus for what He taught, then they'll persecute me for what I teach. I'm not a KJV only type of person, but it is the prefered version I use. And being as such, I believe that that book is God's word to the world. It's teachings are true, inspired, and will not led us astray. I will not compromise one single word in that book for in my opinion, if you compromise those words, you'll compromise Him. That's just how I see it. It may hurt some people, it may make some people mad, it may even upset some on this area of the threads, but that is what God said, that's what I believe, and as said before, I'll not compromise it for you, for the moderators, not anybody. I mean no disrespect for the moderators of this forum, please don't think I do. That is just how strongly I feel for His word.

Between you and I friend, and whoever else reads this thread, let it be said of us that we have:

"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses." -1 Tim. 6:12

I want to be able to stand up in front of the Lord and be able to say as Paul did:

"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:" 2 Tim. 4:7

And as a result:

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." -2 Tim. 4:8

God bless you brother.

I don't mean to jump into your conversation here, but this is something that is starting to happen within our church. My pastor is what you call an "old-school" southern baptist. Very conservative and traditional. I enjoy him because this is how I was raised within my family. Anyway, over a course of 20 years, there have been some very liberal minded people who have come into our staff at church. At first people were excited because they thought it was new and refreshing, but now the church is reaping what they have sown. People in our church are not being edified, and there have been so many different theologies coming in our church that it's watered down the gospel. It's almost sickening. Our pastor has seen this and has been "letting-go" of certain staff members that have brought in this mind set. Of course, their followers aren't happy and are leaving the church. That's fine by me. Our church is trying to cleanse itself of these teachings, and getting back into having people hearing the message.

 

[Flynmonkie]

<snip> that it's watered down the gospel.

What does this mean???I hear people say it all the time and for the life of me I cannot figure out what "watering down the gospel" means?

 

[MrJim]

What does this mean???I hear people say it all the time and for the life of me I cannot figure out what "watering down the gospel" means?

It's like watering your soup. You keep adding something that dilutes the original until you have something that is frankly worthless. But you have lots of it

And all the original is still in there, but it is drowned out by the dilution.

 

[Flynmonkie]

Clear as mud! Maybe I need some definining structure to what this encompasses for people? How can you dilute “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life; he that believith in me though he were dead, yet shall he live; I am the way truth and the light, no man comes to the father but by me. For whosoever believith in me shall have everlasting life"? This is the gospel; is it not? The message that Christ has bought, through his death on the cross and resurrection from the dead forgiveness of sins for all who cling to him in faith. Or is it considered the four books in entirety of the bible? Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? Totally lost on this one.

Even Wikipedia has varying definitions of the “gospel.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel

The Gospel in a nutshell; God sent His son as a sacrifice, a covenant to us because He loved US (the world) so much, He died for our mistakes (sin) and whomever believes, those that get the fact that IS how much God loves us and believes this and the lessons He teaches shall have everlasting life. I would say the opposite, that people have more faith in their ability to teach than the sovereignty of the guiding of Holy Spirit or God to handle His job.. IMHCO. To this would be a diluting of the "gospel" by adding to? No?

 

[£amb]

I'm glad someone had an explanation for it! I was trying to figure out how to explain something I know, but couldn't put it in words. The people I was talking about in my post were taking God's message and making it an appealing/feel good message. I actually heard my Director of the Preschool tell a lady, who was applying to the Preschool and was wondering how she could work there, that all she had to do was accept Jesus in her heart, become a member and would be able to work there. I was stunned when I heard this. She was selling out God just so this lady could work there. Makes me ill

 

[53Isaiah]

Revelation 3
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 

[Dmckay]

What does this mean???I hear people say it all the time and for the life of me I cannot figure out what "watering down the gospel" means?

It's actually quite simple. The message of Jesus was not for salvation. He never called anyone to salvation. Search the Scriptures you will find that it is true. The only one that He talked to about salvation was the rich young ruler. Jesus challenged the young man's assertions about his devotion by challenging him to go, sell all he possessed, give it to the poor and follow Him. The young man wasn't willing to pay the price and went away unsaved.

In Luke 14 Jesus laid out the cost of discipleship. Large crowds were following Him, but Jesus issued this challenge to those who were considering His teachings: "5 Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,
26"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. (The language here is comparative, in other words unless our love and devotion to Jesus is such that by comparison it is as if we hate those we have been commanded to love he cannot be My disciple 27"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. (Die to yourself daily or you cannot be My disciple)

28 "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? 29"Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, 30saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'

31"Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32"Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.

33 "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions. 34 "Therefore, salt is good; but if even salt has become tasteless, with what will it be seasoned? 35 "It is useless either for the soil or for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

ANYTHING that stands between us and Jesus is as an idol and keeps us from living for Him alone. The pain of our Christian walk comes as G-d has to force open our fingers and make us release those things that stand between us and Christ. Any other message is watering down the Gospel.

Today, many churches are preaching a Gospel that merely calls for mental ascent to the facts of the Gospel. James, the step-brother of Jesus says that this isn't enough. In fact it isn't any different from the "belief" of demons. James 2:18 "But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." 19You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless." James wasn't teaching faith + works = salvation as some assert. He was teaching the Biblical faith "pistis" binds the belief to the life of the "believer" in such a manner that it can't be distinguished from believer. Their faiith is their life to the extent that they will work.

This isn't any different from Paul's teaching to the Ephesians in chapter 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. [But we can't stop here the thought is continued in verse 10 completing Paul's thought concerning this Christian life that is received by grace through Faith] 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

The old 4-Spiritual Laws was a good example of a watered down Gospel. How did they start? G-d Loves You and has a Wonderful Plan for Your Life. Was there any mention at all about the teachings of the Apostles that they received from Jesus, that the Christian life will be one of trials and hardship to conform the believer into the image of Christ? Not a bit. Was there a mention of the love and devotion that Christ said we MUST have or we're not worthy to be His disciple? Not a bit. At best, many chhurches have resorted to calling discipleship a second blessing or a recommitment of the life to Christ after becoming frustrated with being a baby christian for what could be years. A watered down Gospel, and NOT the message of Jesus.

Any Gospel that does not include the act of repentance as the Greek term really means is a watered-down gospel.

 

[arunma]

Aw...we're not talking about Transformers anymore? Maybe I should start a new thread.

 

[Dmckay]

Aw...we're not talking about Transformers anymore? Maybe I should start a new thread.

I don't speak for anyone else my brother, but I was certainly transformed when I gave my life to my Lord and Savior. Not just transformed, but become a whole new creation.

 

[arunma]

I don't speak for anyone else my brother, but I was certainly transformed when I gave my life to my Lord and Savior. Not just transformed, but become a whole new creation.

That's certainly a most important thing for us all to share. But I, the youngin' that I am, was talking about those robots from the planet Cybertron.

 

[Dmckay]

That's certainly a most important thing for us all to share. But I, the youngin' that I am, was talking about those robots from the planet Cybertron.

I know what they are. My son used to collect them. I believe that he still has a few of them around his house. I know that he still has GI Joes, Star Trek figures and Star Wars figures and ships.

 

[Flynmonkie]

The message of Jesus was not for salvation. He never called anyone to salvation. Search the Scriptures you will find that it is true. The only one that He talked to about salvation was the rich young ruler. Jesus challenged the young man's assertions about his devotion by challenging him to go, sell all he possessed, give it to the poor and follow Him. The young man wasn't willing to pay the price and went away unsaved.
<snip>

Ephesians in chapter 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. [But we can't stop here the thought is continued in verse 10 completing Paul's thought concerning this Christian life that is received by grace through Faith] 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.The old 4-Spiritual Laws was a good example of a watered down Gospel. How did they start? G-d Loves You and has a Wonderful Plan for Your Life. Was there any mention at all about the teachings of the Apostles that they received from Jesus, that the Christian life will be one of trials and hardship to conform the believer into the image of Christ? Not a bit. Was there a mention of the love and devotion that Christ said we MUST have or we're not worthy to be His disciple? Not a bit. At best, many chhurches have resorted to calling discipleship a second blessing or a recommitment of the life to Christ after becoming frustrated with being a baby christian for what could be years. A watered down Gospel, and NOT the message of Jesus.

Any Gospel that does not include the act of repentance as the Greek term really means is a watered-down gospel.

I don't necessarily agree here. We were all babes once, some of us were presented with "the gospel" or the teachings of Christ at a young age, we understood. As we grew our knowledge grew. Did this knowledge grow because of something we are, or we did? I feel that it is an act of God. Based on OT scripture including NT scripture that enforces the concept that God will give knowledge if we seek it. We cannot seek this in perfection; there is no one righteous - not one. We are incapable of seeking Him in any perfection, that perfection will not be attained until glorification. So what we are left with is a walk, a walk of sanctification. What some of us come to know at 5 years old, others are taking their first step toward knowledge at 55, or 75 even. The basics are simple, if you seek (through Christ) you will find, If you knock - HE will answer you. I am a bit on a bend as of late with the "mature" Christians attitude of cramming something down ones throat and forgetting that it is not our job. Our role here is to share the promises of God, the teachings of Christ, with love, by example and word of mouth etc.. We have nothing, I repeat nothing to do with ones inner heart condition/conviction, we have no knowledge of the level one is at in their learning. Of course repentance, in a biblical sense, is a turning as we have discussed before. Turning toward Christ and asking God what and why is a great start, if you believe His promises to us. I have been told (besides the comments toward my egalitarian views) that I water down the gospel. No, I disagree. I tell others about what God has done for me, What Christs purpose here was:

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Hebrews 6:9
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Should we disregard implications on Christs purpose because Jesus did not speak of salvation and the presence of the word is not written in red? Wouldn&#8217;t the acknowledgement of Christs purpose for salvation be tying something else to the gospel and producing a stumbling block for new believers or seekers? Letter vs. Spirit again!

The Spirit of what Christs purpose here is clear to me, one purpose only Gods eternal covenant with us as believers. I believe Christ was Gods sacrifice to us, in a nutshell saying Ok, I have shown you over and over how much I love you and that I want you to choose life eternal with me, but you just didn&#8217;t get it. So here is my Son (myself) as a final act to reach out to you in your choice. (I know I will hear a headache of comments on this seemingly elementary summation but it is about that simple)

Once one believes, the Holy Spirit takes over. It is a promise. Generalist statements about &#8220;watered down gospel&#8221; after I have investigated usually have resulted in Christians, however well versed on many things of the Bible, are becoming &#8220;bean counters&#8221; of others sins and sanctification process (that is not directed at you lamb at all!! I am still trying to pin down this illusive terminology your post sparked my interest only!)

My concern is first and foremost &#8211; are we quenching the Spirit in the process of a presumed slight based on our own frame of reference (personal experiences), or are we truly correcting an incorrect theological teaching; if that makes sense?

I think it dangerous to sling phrases around such as this without specific details to why (an understanding of reason), in effect we could be negating good and working against each other, a deterrent to the gospel. You will hear me time and time again say, work out your own salvation, God has everyone covered! Again back to my thought at times it seems that Christians have placed too much esteem on themselves and not enough on the sovereignty of God. Sure if you see a specific issue presented it is our responsibility to explain and elaborate. If churches are out there giving the gospel to babes and we know there is much to understand (and we still do every day) we should use the wisdom that God is in control. Let me pose this question; is conviction to repent (turn) an act of us, or an act of the Spirit?

1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


(The four gospels web site http://www.greatcom.org/laws/english/flash/ was a tremendous help for me bridging the gap of misunderstanding, leading to my now &#8220;Bible junkie&#8221; habit of seeking out information and of course the Good Lord delivering it when needed! It does speak of a Christ centered life, which in turn points people to Christs teachings) It left me wondering how, and here I am&#8230;.


Sorry for my late night rambling on this, thanks for lending me your "eyes"..