Take the Jesus Challenge

[Lance E.]

A pastor once told me that he had a friend who was an atheist. His friend thought that believing in a god or Jesus was childish and he didn't see a point in it. So this pastor asked his friend to try living life as a Christian for one month and see if he changed his opinion. His friend agreed. He spent one month praying and reading the bible regularly and going to church. He made an honest effort to love Jesus and to show kindness and compassion to his neighbors. The next month he was baptized and became a Christian.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer makes the point in The Cost of Discipleship that obedience and faith are inseparable. Not only does faithin God lead to obedience to God, but obedience to God leads to faith in him.

I'm not asking anyone to post their opinions to this thread, though you may if you wish. And I'm not "daring" anyone to meet this challenge. But if you are a non-believer or struggling with doubts about Christianity, and this is something you'd be willing to undertake, I encourage you to do so. Not for me. Partially for Jesus, but mostly for you.

 

[GarrickBrewer]

You know, I think that I know a few people who could take this challenge and leanr from it. Thanks for telling us about it.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

A pastor once told me that he had a friend who was an atheist. His friend thought that believing in a god or Jesus was childish and he didn't see a point in it. So this pastor asked his friend to try living life as a Christian for one month and see if he changed his opinion. His friend agreed. He spent one month praying and reading the bible regularly and going to church. He made an honest effort to love Jesus and to show kindness and compassion to his neighbors. The next month he was baptized and became a Christian.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer makes the point in The Cost of Discipleship that obedience and faith are inseparable. Not only does faithin God lead to obedience to God, but obedience to God leads to faith in him.

I'm not asking anyone to post their opinions to this thread, though you may if you wish. And I'm not "daring" anyone to meet this challenge. But if you are a non-believer or struggling with doubts about Christianity, and this is something you'd be willing to undertake, I encourage you to do so. Not for me. Partially for Jesus, but mostly for you.

I used to be a Christian. To return to it, even just for one month, would be intellectual suicide. I'd literally have to put aside all of the things I've learned about evolution, science, history, etc since leaving the Christian faith.

 

[Soothfish]

I used to be a Christian. To return to it, even just for one month, would be intellectual suicide. I'd literally have to put aside all of the things I've learned about evolution, science, history, etc since leaving the Christian faith.

Intellectualism should be a tool, not a religion in and of itself. There is no such thing as "intellectual suicide" because you'll be thinking throughout the whole process no matter what you do. There are people who believe that all the things you mentioned are compatible with the Bible and they are very good at arguing. How can you be certain that you won't one day meet one of these people who changes your mind?

When talking about theism in particular, how can anyone be so sure that God(s) don't exist? Human beings have only discovered an infinitesimal portion of the universe (and possibly multiverse). The most that any unbelieving scientist should say is "I don't know" or "we don't know". Even the pronouncement that "we can't know" is pretty illogical.

 

[xNIHILISTx]

Intellectualism should be a tool, not a religion in and of itself. There is no such thing as "intellectual suicide" because you'll be thinking throughout the whole process no matter what you do. There are people who believe that all the things you mentioned are compatible with the Bible and they are very good at arguing. How can you be certain that you won't one day meet one of these people who changes your mind?

When talking about theism in particular, how can anyone be so sure that God(s) don't exist? Human beings have only discovered an infinitesimal portion of the universe (and possibly multiverse). The most that any unbelieving scientist should say is "I don't know" or "we don't know". Even the pronouncement that "we can't know" is pretty illogical.

I agree with what you said for the most part although I think he meant that believing in the Christian God and the Bible is not intellectual as it contains many historical and scientific errors.

 

[Soothfish]

I agree with what you said for the most part although I think he meant that believing in the Christian God and the Bible is not intellectual as it contains many historical and scientific errors.

I'm probably not qualified to counter that claim as I am fairly new to the religion scene and could end up saying something stupid. There are sub-forums here that can address these claims of "historical and scientific errors" if either of you care to look into them further.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Interesting challenge, could work for certain people, especially those who have strayed off the path a bit.

 

[razeontherock]

I used to be a Christian. To return to it, even just for one month, would be intellectual suicide. I'd literally have to put aside all of the things I've learned about evolution, science, history, etc since leaving the Christian faith.

Wow is this ever a false dichotomy! There are many many believers here who hold the same views that you do re: these items you mention, none of which are articles of Faith. We have working scientists who are Christians too! You haven't encountered even one?

 

[ephraimanesti]

A pastor once told me that he had a friend who was an atheist. His friend thought that believing in a god or Jesus was childish and he didn't see a point in it. So this pastor asked his friend to try living life as a Christian for one month and see if he changed his opinion. His friend agreed. He spent one month praying and reading the bible regularly and going to church. He made an honest effort to love Jesus and to show kindness and compassion to his neighbors. The next month he was baptized and became a Christian.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer makes the point in The Cost of Discipleship that obedience and faith are inseparable. Not only does faithin God lead to obedience to God, but obedience to God leads to faith in him.

I'm not asking anyone to post their opinions to this thread, though you may if you wish. And I'm not "daring" anyone to meet this challenge. But if you are a non-believer or struggling with doubts about Christianity, and this is something you'd be willing to undertake, I encourage you to do so. Not for me. Partially for Jesus, but mostly for you.

MY BROTHER,

A little side excursion from your challenge is the old atheist question, delivered with a smirk, "If there were no heaven or hell, would you still be a Christian?" i hold that the Christian--REAL Christian--life on good old planet earth can stand on its own feet with no support from the age to come as a desirable, pleasing, fulfilling, and joy-filled lifestyle, far superior to any others extant today. i don't know if a 30-day trial would provide enough proof for most people, but it did for me as i saw the darkness gradually lighten in my world due to my puny efforts to live as a Christian prior to becoming one. Just thinking . . . .

ephraim

 

[JGG]

A pastor once told me that he had a friend who was an atheist. His friend thought that believing in a god or Jesus was childish and he didn't see a point in it. So this pastor asked his friend to try living life as a Christian for one month and see if he changed his opinion. His friend agreed. He spent one month praying and reading the bible regularly and going to church. He made an honest effort to love Jesus and to show kindness and compassion to his neighbors. The next month he was baptized and became a Christian.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer makes the point in The Cost of Discipleship that obedience and faith are inseparable. Not only does faithin God lead to obedience to God, but obedience to God leads to faith in him.

I'm not asking anyone to post their opinions to this thread, though you may if you wish. And I'm not "daring" anyone to meet this challenge. But if you are a non-believer or struggling with doubts about Christianity, and this is something you'd be willing to undertake, I encourage you to do so. Not for me. Partially for Jesus, but mostly for you.

Here's my problems with it, in order:

(1) I used to pray, read the Bible, and in fact attended Bible study, and went to church at least once a week. I still spent years trying to refind my love for Jesus, then my love for God, then mere recognition of God, then belief in God. Nevertheless, as of now I have very serious doubts about Christianity despite, or maybe even because of it.

(2) A.J. Jacobs, an agnostic looking for religion, did exactly this (and a fair bit more) for a full year, and was kind enough to record it in his book The Year of Living Biblically. I don't want to ruin the ending, but it doesn't exactly support your hypothesis.

(3) I'm not sure if it's what you're suggesting, but allow me to suggest that showing kindness and compassion to your neighbours is not exclusive to Christians, nor does it seem particularly common among them.

 

[razeontherock]

(2) A.J. Jacobs, an agnostic looking for religion, did exactly this (and a fair bit more) for a full year, and was kind enough to record it in his book The Year of Living Biblically.

It would be really interesting to examine what he thought living Biblically meant! No I really don't want to read the words of a failure, but we might glean a lot from his mistakes.

 

[enprever]

Here's my problems with it, in order:

(1) I used to pray, read the Bible, and in fact attended Bible study, and went to church at least once a week. I still spent years trying to refind my love for Jesus, then my love for God, then mere recognition of God, then belief in God. Nevertheless, as of now I have very serious doubts about Christianity despite, or maybe even because of it.

(2) A.J. Jacobs, an agnostic looking for religion, did exactly this (and a fair bit more) for a full year, and was kind enough to record it in his book The Year of Living Biblically. I don't want to ruin the ending, but it doesn't exactly support your hypothesis.

(3) I'm not sure if it's what you're suggesting, but allow me to suggest that showing kindness and compassion to your neighbours is not exclusive to Christians, nor does it seem particularly common among them.

That book sounds really interesting. I wonder how it worked out for the guy?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Wow is this ever a false dichotomy! There are many many believers here who hold the same views that you do re: these items you mention, none of which are articles of Faith. We have working scientists who are Christians too! You haven't encountered even one?

The difference between a non-Christian scientist and a Christian scientist is that the Christian scientist interprets data according to the Bible; he/she already has the "facts" so they have to interpret any empirical data based on the Bible. Non-Christian scientists have the advantage of not trying to work empirical data to fit into the Bible. I would rather believe a scientist who's working without a religious agenda because they present the facts as they find them, not as they should be interpreted according to an old book.

 

[Soothfish]

The difference between a non-Christian scientist and a Christian scientist is that the Christian scientist interprets data according to the Bible; he/she already has the "facts" so they have to interpret any empirical data based on the Bible. Non-Christian scientists have the advantage of not trying to work empirical data to fit into the Bible. I would rather believe a scientist who's working without a religious agenda because they present the facts as they find them, not as they should be interpreted according to an old book.

Maybe some do but why do you assume that all of them do? If you are not assuming that all of them do then what is the purpose of your statement? A lack of emotional trust in Christian scientists?

 

[JGG]

The difference between a non-Christian scientist and a Christian scientist is that the Christian scientist interprets data according to the Bible; he/she already has the "facts" so they have to interpret any empirical data based on the Bible. Non-Christian scientists have the advantage of not trying to work empirical data to fit into the Bible. I would rather believe a scientist who's working without a religious agenda because they present the facts as they find them, not as they should be interpreted according to an old book.

Well that's not entirely true. There are Christian scientists who manage to put their faith at the lab door, do the work, interpret the data, make their findings, and then pick their faith back up on the way out, without ever trying to shoe-horn their faith into it.

I'm think specifically of George LeMaitre, John Polkinghome, or Francis Collins. I'm sure I could find more if I set to research it, but at least with these three their findings do not seem to be subject to their faith, but a means of informing it.

 

[JGG]

That book sounds really interesting. I wonder how it worked out for the guy?

I could tell you, but then you wouldn't get to read a wonderfully fun book. Although, I prefer his first book: The Know-it-All, which is quite possibly my favorite book, ever.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Maybe some do but why do you assume that all of them do? If you are not assuming that all of them do then what is the purpose of your statement? A lack of emotional trust in Christian scientists?

Emotional trust? I wasn't aware that trust was an emotion. And no, generally I don't trust Christian scientists. They work backwards, with the Bible as their basis of scientific knowledge. Pure science should examine the evidence in its own light; not according to what some old religious text says. Just look at evolution. Secular science tells us that we evolved over hundreds of millions of years, continually adapting to our environment. Christian scientists are forced to add God into this equation by such silly terms as "macro" and "micro" evolution. If one can believe small changes happen across species over a short time (thousands of years) then one must also accept that larger changes can happen to a species over longer periods of time (millions of years). Intelligent design was thrown out of a US court as a scientific theory several years back.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Well that's not entirely true. There are Christian scientists who manage to put their faith at the lab door, do the work, interpret the data, make their findings, and then pick their faith back up on the way out, without ever trying to shoe-horn their faith into it.

I'm think specifically of George LeMaitre, John Polkinghome, or Francis Collins. I'm sure I could find more if I set to research it, but at least with these three their findings do not seem to be subject to their faith, but a means of informing it.

Maybe you're right. It depends on their field of study I suppose. I'm thinking mostly of Christian biologists, archaeologists, etc. Their "findings" are often in conflict with those of non-religious scientists.

 

[salida]

Multverse-don't exist. The odds equal zero.
http://www.reasons.org/physics/multiverse/infinity-universes-0

(more scientists intelligent design)
http://www.y-origins.com/index.php?p=home_more

 

[JGG]

Maybe you're right. It depends on their field of study I suppose. I'm thinking mostly of Christian biologists, archaeologists, etc. Their "findings" are often in conflict with those of non-religious scientists.

George LeMaitre is something of a cosmologist, and proposed the early theory that became the Big Bang Theory. Francis Collins is a geneticist who saw through the Human Genome Project.