Taize

[Virgil the Roman]

Ordinary teaching authority is not infallible nor can it be followed if it flatly contradicts the natural or Divine positive law, defined dogma or the historical teaching of the Church. We must look to the whole of Church teaching, not just what is most recent -- the Church is timeless, not timely.

Common sense would tell you that if you actively participate in another religion's rites, you are professing that religion............

Some would object that Mohammed's "Allah" is the same as the Christian God or certainly, I am sure that many would protest my phrasing of "Luther's god". After all, didn't Luther believe in Christ? Here is what the Angelic Doctor has to say:

Heretics have personal opinions about religion but they do not have faith. Since heretics do not have faith, they do not please God with their religious rites but offend Him with their false worship. Why would anyone suggest that it is acceptable for a Catholic to join in the sinful rites of heretics?



Saints were slaughtered by the hundreds in the Roman Colosseum for refusing to offer a single grain of incense to the pagan gods. Yet some now say it is acceptable to worship pagan gods* or participate in heretical worship under the idea that "all religions are just different paths up the mountain", this is false and the blood of many thousands of martyrs proves how false it is...

I have seen the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate give a sermon on heretics mentioning this:

Neither living nor lifeless faith remains in a heretic who disbelieves one article of faith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-KgETDYayg&feature=related

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PAGANS
we are talking about Protestants and Eastern Orthodox

The archbishop who offered a sacrifice to the Hindu gods was participating in a pagan religion. The Jesuit priest who defended his actions in the article referred to regularly praying in Hindu temples (*cough* aging hippy... *cough*).

I also said that with respect to schismatics, the issue is different because we can avail ourselves of their Sacraments under certain circumstances. Protestantism is different because they have no Sacraments, save Baptism (sometimes not even that). Regardless of theological contentions regarding Trinitarian Procession, Original Sin (and thus the Immaculate Conception) and other doctrines, the Church has regarded the Eastern Orthodox as schismatics not as heretics. The situation with regard to the various Protestant groups is different, they have always been regarded as heretics.

you do not listen to the Bishops, you press your own ideas about orthodoxy above what the Bishops and the Pope says

I quoted Scripture, Church Fathers and Popes. The fact that some bishops, priests and theologians spread false doctrines does not phase me, this has always happened. That is why it is important to rely on those we can depend on -- look to the Church Fathers, look to the Saints, what did they say? When did they say it was acceptable for a Catholic to take part in heretical worship?

Reus vetitae communicationis in sacris iusta poena puniatur.

One who is guilty of prohibited participation in religious rites is to be punished with a just penalty.

Simply because the new CIC doesn't specify excommunication doesn't mean it is now licit. Heresy remains heresy.

in the past Catholics were not allowed to worship along side the Protestants, and that was totaly legit, we are to listen to the Pope and the Bishops, when it was something that would get you excommunited those people were excomunicated, now it is not

A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

I have seen the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate give a sermon on heretics mentioning this:

Neither living nor lifeless faith remains in a heretic who disbelieves one article of faith.

I believe it was first pointed out to me in a Fr. Ripperger sermon (I <3 him!). The more I understand and read St. Thomas, the more I see how beautifully brilliant he is and the more I love him.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

I never knew this before, I listened to Father's sermon. It seems as I've read before, the Church is under a diabolical disorientation currently.

Pray for the Church that the Smoke of Satan departs and the demons that have crept in over the past fifty years, may depart.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

I never knew this before, I listened to Father's sermon. It seems as I've read the term before, the Church is under a diabolical disorientation currently.

Pray for the Church that the Smoke of Satan departs and the demons that have crept in over the past twenty years, may depart.

The demons have attacked the Faith not only for 20 years but 2,000 years and ever since the serpent slithered up to Eve. We should definitely pray for the purging of the Church but it is also nothing new.

For there must be also heresies: that they also, who are approved, may be made manifest among you.

The wheat and the cockle must grow up together and this means formal heretics (e.g. Protestants), informal heretics (pseudo-Catholics) and all manner of obstinate sinners. But in the end, God will separate the wheat from the cockle, the sheep from the goats, the grain from the chaff. God judges justly.

In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph! ~ Our Lady of Fatima

 

[Rhamiel]

Does this mean the Church changes? I have to wonder, how can it be bad to join in w/ other Christians before but now it's ok?

(Sorry, I get confused about the Church pretty easily.)

the cultrures change, differant ideas about how best to battle heresy come up
and obediance to the Bishop is a big thing, in the past it was not just a sin to worship with schismatics and heretics becuase of their errors, but also because it was in open rebellion to what the Bishops said

before, we had wars of religion, to eat and drink with a group that was killing your brothers and sisters in christ would minimalize their deaths
then after the wars, the idea was to win converts by showing that the Church is seperate from worldly things like man made denominations
in the past (and even today) Anglicans and Lutherans and other denominations tried to claim that they represented the true Catholic Faith, well with false eccumenicsim rampent among the denominations, none of them can really claim to represent the one true Church, that makes them much weaker
now the idea is to go among them and to show them the truth and holiness that is the Catholic Church

 

[Virgil the Roman]

...show them the truth and holiness that is the Catholic Church

We must do this; without compromise of doctrine, dogma, or belief.

 

[Rhamiel]

We must do this; without compromise of doctrine, dogma, or belief.

true, I do not see any one disagreeing with that

 

[Memento Mori]

We must do this; without compromise of doctrine, dogma, or belief.

it seems like you have a knee jerk reaction to ecumenism whenever it's mentioned lol

truth and ecumenism aren't exclusive to each other (often the opposite, look at Pope Benedict's private scholarship -- he's very ecumenical in his sources, absolutely Catholic in his conclusions)

 

[Virgil the Roman]

it seems like you have a knee jerk reaction to ecumenism whenever it's mentioned lol

Yes, I suppose that I do, friend.

 

[Antigone]

The monastery in France is actually dual by now, Catholic and protestant monks.

That would explain why the (protestant) school where I teach organises a field trip to Taizé every year.