Synagogue?

[Jasmine-FL]

Hi all,
If Gentiles are not obliged to obey the Laws given to Israel, then why does Acts 15 say that Gentiles ought to go to synagogues on the sabbath in order to learn about Moses? Is there something I'm missing? I don't mean to debate anyone's belief, it's an honest question and I'm really confused.
Another question: if the Holy Spirit is only given to believers, and if Jesus was against the pharisees, why would the church leaders tell us to go to a synagogue? How can I learn about God if the Holy Spirit is not there, or maybe it is and again there's something I'm missing. AAAAAAH! SO CONFUSED!!!
And finally, being a Christian gentile, would I even be welcome in any synagogue?

In Christ's love,
~Jasmine~

 

[sojeru]

just sent you a PM...
also, please go here to the second page:

http://www.christianforums.com/t715593&page=2

 

[shmuel]

The contents of the letter sent by the apostles is found in Acts 15:23-29. What does it say?

S

 

[The Thadman]

Hi all,
If Gentiles are not obliged to obey the Laws given to Israel, then why does Acts 15 say that Gentiles ought to go to synagogues on the sabbath in order to learn about Moses? Is there something I'm missing? I don't mean to debate anyone's belief, it's an honest question and I'm really confused.

Because in the Torah we find what God expects of us. Jesus, himself, said that not one jot or tittle shall in no way pass from it.

Another question: if the Holy Spirit is only given to believers, and if Jesus was against the pharisees, why would the church leaders tell us to go to a synagogue? How can I learn about God if the Holy Spirit is not there, or maybe it is and again there's something I'm missing. AAAAAAH! SO CONFUSED!!!

Note that Torah scrolls were very expensive and very precious back then (and the traditional scrolls are still very expensive today). There were no organizations like the Guideons today. If one wanted to read Torah, they would have to go to the synagogues.

And finally, being a Christian gentile, would I even be welcome in any synagogue?

In Christ's love,
~Jasmine~

Depends on the synagogue. No harm in asking.

Peace!
-Steve-o

PS Did you recieve my last email?

 

[simchat_torah]

If one wanted to read Torah, they would have to go to the synagogues.

Not to mention the commandment to make a 'holy convocation' on Shabbat

-yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

And finally, being a Christian gentile, would I even be welcome in any synagogue?

In Christ's love,
~Jasmine~

Yes. Synagogue's are actually quite used to having christian visitors. Often many christians will want to visit a synagogue to see "how jesus worshipped". I haven't heard of a synagogue yet rejecting visitors

-yafet

 

[The Thadman]

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Not to mention the commandment to make a 'holy convocation' on Shabbat

-yafet

Indeedy! A day of rest, food, and fellowship.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[Jasmine-FL]

The contents of the letter sent by the apostles is found in Acts 15:23-29. What does it say?

S

It says nothing about going to synagogues. But then why did James mention it? And why doesn't the letter tell them to go to synagogues?

 

[Jasmine-FL]

just sent you a PM...
also, please go here to the second page:

http://www.christianforums.com/t715593&page=2

Sojeru,
Thank you for PM'ing me.
I still need some time to digest all you've written. There's stuff there I'd never even thought possible such as James being the leader of both Christians and Pharisees. I'll go through your PM again once I get home and I'll probably ask you tons of questions.

In Christ's love,
~J~

 

[ShirChadash]

because it was already the common practice for the believing gentiles to be attending synagogue -- and that is where they were reached with the news of Yeshua in the first place. Read all through Acts, and you will find that the gentiles were included with the Jews, as those reached in the synagogues with the Word of Messiah.

 

[Jasmine-FL]

Because in the Torah we find what God expects of us. Jesus, himself, said that not one jot or tittle shall in no way pass from it.



Note that Torah scrolls were very expensive and very precious back then (and the traditional scrolls are still very expensive today). There were no organizations like the Guideons today. If one wanted to read Torah, they would have to go to the synagogues.

Depends on the synagogue. No harm in asking.

Peace!
-Steve-o

PS Did you recieve my last email?

So are we supposed to go to synagogues nowadays? Did they attend synagogues just for the sake of reading scriptures or because they needed to be taught the Law of Moses? Because we do read scriptures at church, but there is virtually no teaching of the Law of Moses (I've always asked myself why we hardly ever even opened the OT except for the Psalms that is still a mystery to me ). I hope you guys don't think I'm stupid you for asking so many questions.

I didn't receive your last e-mail Steve. I thought you'd forgotten.

 

[Jasmine-FL]

because it was already the common practice for the believing gentiles to be attending synagogue -- and that is where they were reached with the news of Yeshua in the first place. Read all through Acts, and you will find that the gentiles were included with the Jews, as those reached in the synagogues with the Word of Messiah.

Hi Zemirah
Are you saying we should attend synagogues to evangelize Jewish non-believers? That does make sense but wouldn't they be upset?

 

[Jasmine-FL]

Yes. Synagogue's are actually quite used to having christian visitors. Often many christians will want to visit a synagogue to see "how jesus worshipped". I haven't heard of a synagogue yet rejecting visitors

-yafet

Visiting is one thing, I'm sure they wouldn't mind. But attending one regularly is a different thing. Wouldn't they feel like I'm intruding?

 

[ShirChadash]

Hi

Um, no, I'm not saying that. My understanding is that gentile believers attended synagogue to learn Torah, and then gathered separately as believers in Yeshua, to expound the Torah in light of Messiah. We have evidence of this in the passage in Acts (why can't I find it right now!? ) where, after attending synagogue with the Jews and gentiles, Paul and the believers in Yeshua separate from the synagogue and go on to celebrate the Havdolah (ending of Shabbat) meal and Paul stays late and speaks all through the night to the believers, as he was to leave early the following day (a "sunday")... I'll find it, unless an angel here posts the scripture passage before I get to it

Shalom

 

[Henaynei]

It says nothing about going to synagogues. But then why did James mention it? And why doesn't the letter tell them to go to synagogues?

One no more needs to tell a committed Christian to attend church than one needs to tell one committed to following the Jewish Messiah to attend syangogue - it is kinda like the idea that when you yell "STOP!" - you don't *have* to say "YOU stop!" - that part is understood. So if the Gentiles which believe are enjoined to take on the beginning levels of Torah observance with the Noakhide laws and are in the Messianic Community - it is unnecessary to *tell* them to attend syangogue - they would do so naturally by following the example of the community of which they had become a part

 

[Talmidah]

Visiting is one thing, I'm sure they wouldn't mind. But attending one regularly is a different thing. Wouldn't they feel like I'm intruding?

In most synagogues you would be allowed to attend regularly. You would not be counted for the minyan, obviously, but you could attend the services and learn Torah.

Are you saying we should attend synagogues to evangelize Jewish non-believers? That does make sense but wouldn't they be upset?

Please, please, please don't consider doing this. This would be terribly rude and inconsiderate. Can you imagine if a muslim attended your christian church just to convince you that christianity is wrong and you should become a muslim? If you are interested in attending a Jewish synagogue, you should go with the only intention being of learning Torah, not evangelyzing the people there.

 

[Jasmine-FL]

Zemirah and Henaynei,
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
You know what's funny? When you hear the truth, it just 'feels right' (please don't think I'm crazy )

It all makes sense and matches Scriptures. But why has no-one ever told me that?
I feel like I've lost so much precious time of my life as a believer I don't even know where or how to start making up for all this.

But I still got one question if more than half the world claims to believe and follow the Jewish Messiah, why don't they go (and tell others to go) to synagogues learn about Moses? That still doesn't make sense in my head.

In Christ's love,
~J~

 

[Talmidah]

We have evidence of this in the passage in Acts (why can't I find it right now!? ) where, after attending synagogue with the Jews and gentiles, Paul and the believers in Yeshua separate from the synagogue and go on to celebrate the Havdolah (ending of Shabbat) meal and Paul stays late and speaks all through the night to the believers, as he was to leave early the following day (a "sunday")... I'll find it, unless an angel here posts the scripture passage before I get to it

Shalom

I believe you're thinking of Acts 20:7-8

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered together.

 

[shmuel]

Perhaps a little historical perspective is in order. Irenaeus wrote his work Against Heresies about 180 CE. Irenaeus in his youth had studied under Polycarp who was a disciple of John the apostle. The following quote from Book III, chapter 10, paragraph 15 has Irenaeus' commentary on Acts 15.

15. Neither [in that case] would they have had such a tenor with regard to the first covenant, as not even to have been willing to eat with the Gentiles. For even Peter, although he had been sent to instruct them, and had been constrained by a vision to that effect, spake nevertheless with not a little hesitation, saying to them: "Ye know how it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company with, or to come unto, one of another nation; but God hath shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Therefore came I without gainsaying;" indicating by these words, that he would not have come to them unless he had been commanded. Neither, for a like reason, would he have given them baptism so readily, had he not heard them prophesying when the Holy Ghost rested upon them. And therefore did he exclaim, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? " He persuaded, at the same time, those that were with him, and pointed out that, unless the Holy Ghost had rested upon them, there might have been some one who would have raised objections to their baptism. And the apostles who were with James allowed the Gentiles to act freely, yielding us up to the Spirit of God. But they themselves, while knowing the same God, continued in the ancient observances; so that even Peter, fearing also lest he might incur their reproof, although formerly eating with the Gentiles, because of the vision, and of the Spirit who had rested upon them, yet, when certain persons came from James, withdrew himself, and did not eat with them. And Paul said that Barnabas likewise did the same thing. Thus did the apostles, whom the Lord made witnesses of every action and of every doctrine for upon all occasions do we find Peter, and James, and John present with Him scrupulously act according to the dispensation of the Mosaic law, showing that it was from one and the same God; which they certainly never would have done, as I have already said, if they had learned from the Lord [that there existed] another Father besides Him who appointed the dispensation of the law.(my emphasis added)

S

 

[Henaynei]

Hi

Um, no, I'm not saying that. My understanding is that gentile believers attended synagogue to learn Torah, and then gathered separately as believers in Yeshua, to expound the Torah in light of Messiah. We have evidence of this in the passage in Acts (why can't I find it right now!? ) where, after attending synagogue with the Jews and gentiles, Paul and the believers in Yeshua separate from the synagogue and go on to celebrate the Havdolah (ending of Shabbat) meal and Paul stays late and speaks all through the night to the believers, as he was to leave early the following day (a "sunday")... I'll find it, unless an angel here posts the scripture passage before I get to it

Shalom

7 On Motza'ei-Shabbat (the eve of Saturday between sunset and Havdalah, the ceremony that marks the end of Shabbat), when we were gathered to break bread (the third, and final, of the required festive [Seudat Mitzvah] Shabbat meals), Sha'ul addressed them.

Since he was going to leave the next day, he kept talking until midnight.

8 Now there were many oil lamps burning in the upstairs room where we were meeting, 9 and there was a young fellow named Eutychus sitting on the window-sill. As Sha'ul's drash went on and on, Eutychus grew sleepier and sleepier; until finally he went sound asleep and fell from the third story to the ground. When they picked him up, he was dead. 10 But Sha'ul went down, threw himself onto him, put his arms around him and said, "Don't be upset, he's alive!" 11 Then he went back upstairs, broke the bread (not the Seudat Mitzvah - festival meal - as that had been eaten hours ago) and ate. He continued talking with them till daylight, then left. 12 So, greatly relieved, they brought the boy home alive.

.