Switching to Anabaptist

[natlyn]

I do hope you understand that many illegals going to the US, are trafficking kids that are not theirs to sell into human sex trafficking rings. The same is happening here in Europe. Thousands of illegal kids "just vanished". It's horrible to think what has happened to these innocent kids.

 

[Alithis]

I do hope you understand that many illegals going to the US, are trafficking kids that are not theirs to sell into human sex trafficking rings. The same is happening here in Europe. Thousands of illegal kids "just vanished". It's horrible to think what has happened to these innocent kids.

Im sure your government and people have sold millions of thier children into oblivion at the cost of convenience ... Trafficking them directly from the womb ..to death
This is known fact.
Whether a few illegal immigrants are doing that is biased asumption.. If we are honest.
The non illegal immigrants and thier decendants are doing the same evils on a far greater scale.

The remedy... Go.heal the sick,preach the Gospel .....

 

[natlyn]

Im sure your government and people have sold millions of thier children into oblivion at the cost of convenience ... Trafficking them directly from the womb ..to death
This is known fact.
Whether a few illegal immigrants are doing that is biased asumption.. If we are honest.
The non illegal immigrants and thier decendants are doing the same evils on a far greater scale.

The remedy... Go.heal the sick,preach the Gospel .....

I hate abortion with all that I am. And I cannot imagine the pain and hurt a baby is feeling seconds before he or she is killed so cruely in the one place they are suposed to be the safest, their mother's womb.

But that does not make child sex trafficking any less evil and horrible. According to the US State Department 600,000-800,000 people are trafficked across your borders every year. They say that half of them are children. But according to Non Government Organization’s there are well over a million people being trafficked at the US border yearly. That makes the amount of kids being trafficked for sex to the US well over half a million per year. So I disagree completely with you when you say: "Whether a few illegal immigrants are doing that is biased asumption.. If we are honest."

Because to be honest; I hate trafficking in-and outside the womb. They are both evil. And I believe that we should be doing what Psalms 82 3-4 tells us to do; defend the weak and the fatherless.

 

[Alithis]

I hate abortion with all that I am. And I cannot imagine the pain and hurt a baby is feeling seconds before he or she is killed so cruely in the one place they are suposed to be the safest, their mother's womb.

But that does not make child sex trafficking any less evil and horrible. According to the US State Department 600,000-800,000 people are trafficked across your borders every year. They say that half of them are children. But according to Non Government Organization’s there are well over a million people being trafficked at the US border yearly. That makes the amount of kids being trafficked for sex to the US well over half a million per year. So I disagree completely with you when you say: "Whether a few illegal immigrants are doing that is biased asumption.. If we are honest."

Because to be honest; I hate trafficking in-and outside the womb. They are both evil. And I believe that we should be doing what Psalms 82 3-4 tells us to do; defend the weak and the fatherless.

Transporting is not always trafficking.
But If those numbers were true and that many were being trafficked for sex slaves into the usa.. Have a think about how many in the usa would have to be harbouring them and how much the usa as a nation is completly depraved .
Which means its not the illegal immigrants that are evil it is the citizens of the usa that are utterly given over to wickedness

 

[natlyn]

Transporting is not always trafficking.
But If those numbers were true and that many were being trafficked for sex slaves into the usa.. Have a think about how many in the usa would have to be harbouring them and how much the usa as a nation is completly depraved .
Which means its not the illegal immigrants that are evil it is the citizens of the usa that are utterly given over to wickedness

These numbers are for kids being trafficked. I agree with you that there are citizens in the US that are utterly given over to wickedness, just like there are people like this all over the world. Sadly this is not a US-only problem.

But I completely disagree with you on this: "Which means its not the illegal immigrants that are evil". There are whole gangs and networks where these people traffic kids. They kidnap kids from the street, they beat and gang rape them "until the light goes out in their eyes." Because this is how they know the kids will do whatever they want, their wills have been broken.

They then traffic these kids to the US and either sell them to sick individuals or prostitute them. I have been researching this for some time and it is truely sickening on both sides. Both the illegal criminals that are bringing these kids to the US and the people who are abusing them in the US are utterly evil.

As much as people hate Trump, this man is actually taking hard steps to end human trafficking.
Unless you are listening to the media... I wonder why? ......

 

[Alithis]

These numbers are for kids being trafficked. I agree with you that there are citizens in the US that are utterly given over to wickedness, just like there are people like this all over the world. Sadly this is not a US-only problem.

But I completely disagree with you on this: "Which means its not the illegal immigrants that are evil". There are whole gangs and networks where these people traffic kids. They kidnap kids from the street, they beat and gang rape them "until the light goes out in their eyes." Because this is how they know the kids will do whatever they want, their wills have been broken.

They then traffic these kids to the US and either sell them to sick individuals or prostitute them. I have been researching this for some time and it is truely sickening on both sides. Both the illegal criminals that are bringing these kids to the US and the people who are abusing them in the US are utterly evil.

As much as people hate Trump, this man is actually taking hard steps to end human trafficking.
Unless you are listening to the media... I wonder why? ......

You miss the point
The greater evil by far are the people of america.
If they are trafficking that many children in ..its because the market of buyers are that many..
Meaning america is not a christian nation.
Trump is certainly not christion .
He is a man who has taken on a very temperate sober attitude toward doing some things right.
I dont listen to media but its hard to not hear things going on .but also im not American.
So dont care too much for the bickering over trump.
There are so many things going on .
Some habe prophesied he is alsom being used to set up a timr of peace..where the eorld will say peace peace...
And sudden destruction will come.

Are such foretellings true? I guess we will see.

But one thing i do KNOW.
And its what the early Anabaptist's Got and why they not only held fast to thier faith but walked through horrific death to do so.

Jesus thier Captain..said follow me
And they followed him ...jesus went through thecwaters if baptism
So did they
Jesus went to the cross and died
..so did they.
They GOT what it means to folllow JESUS and love not the world.
But sadly masses of professing christians are self decieved.
They think following JESUS is about attending a building and living in half heartedness and comforts and striving over politics from thier comfy sofa while they wait to be magicly raptured.
There is No oil in thier lamp
No will to lay down thier lives for JESUS.
In fact .they dont love him at all.
Just the concept of continued comfort in heaven .
They have become so deaf.
They dont hear any more that jesus said if you dont lose it here you Wont get it there.
If you lose it here thats how you get it there.

 

[natlyn]

You miss the point
The greater evil by far are the people of america.
If they are trafficking that many children in ..its because the market of buyers are that many..
Meaning america is not a christian nation.
Trump is certainly not christion .
He is a man who has taken on a very temperate sober attitude toward doing some things right.
I dont listen to media but its hard to not hear things going on .but also im not American.
So dont care too much for the bickering over trump.
There are so many things going on .
Some habe prophesied he is alsom being used to set up a timr of peace..where the eorld will say peace peace...
And sudden destruction will come.

Are such foretellings true? I guess we will see.

But one thing i do KNOW.
And its what the early Anabaptist's Got and why they not only held fast to thier faith but walked through horrific death to do so.

Jesus thier Captain..said follow me
And they followed him ...jesus went through thecwaters if baptism
So did they
Jesus went to the cross and died
..so did they.
They GOT what it means to folllow JESUS and love not the world.
But sadly masses of professing christians are self decieved.
They think following JESUS is about attending a building and living in half heartedness and comforts and striving over politics from thier comfy sofa while they wait to be magicly raptured.
There is No oil in thier lamp
No will to lay down thier lives for JESUS.
In fact .they dont love him at all.
Just the concept of continued comfort in heaven .
They have become so deaf.
They dont hear any more that jesus said if you dont lose it here you Wont get it there.
If you lose it here thats how you get it there.

I've also heard a couple of prophesies on him. And yes, only time will tell.

Sadly you're right that so many self professing christians think they have to say a prayer and they'll go to heaven. While we are to deny our flesh, pick up our cross and follow Jesus. Saying the "right" prayers, doing the "right" things, going to the "right" church has gotten no one saved. Only Jesus, He is the only way to our Father, and this is by grace alone. Only by truely knowing Him can anybody change. He is our light in this dark world.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But by and large, I noticed that the closer people and churches were to conservative Reformed orthodoxy, the farther they were from a true Gospel concern for the poor and needy.

Yes, I noticed this same thing with most religion, in most places.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The scripture in Proverbs was directed to a Jewish nation with defined borders and ruled by God's law. I don't see a nation this would apply to these days. Anywhere.

And rarely even a people.? A few years ago, for maybe two years, one nation in the SW Pacific area actually 'had' (reportedly) a Christian leader, though the country was over 70% other religion opposed to truth, opposed to Christianity, opposed to God and opposed to Jesus and opposed to Jesus' followers. It was a miracle the Christian was elected! Anyway though, the most of the country, being opposed to God, did everything the could to oust the Christian leader, for about 2 years, and finally did get him out.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have decided that any person, church or denomination that cannot stand up and speak out against children being in effect kidnapped and tortured are so reprehensible that they are beyond any hope, and I cannot continue to affiliate with them any longer.

There have been so many travesties in recent years, actually for over 50 years, far worse. What is happening is not any less bad, but what to do about it without recognizing the whole system has been doing that and worse for a century won't "fix" anything, will it ?

 

[BonnieL322]

Anabaptists believe the the same foundational doctrines that all Christians believe in such as the Trinity, salvation by faith etc. They believe in believer's baptism to those who are old enough to know what they are doing and who profess true faith and repentance. They also strongly believe in discipleship that leads to a changed life. But what is unique among the Anabaptists, is a commitment to Christian non-violence and reconciliation, social justice, helping the poor and needy, simplicity in living, and community.

I have been considering converting to anabaptism and I actually was born again in the aftermath of that shooting you mentioned...the reaction of the Amish had a profound effect on me at a time when I was wondering a lot about God but hadn’t found Him yet. Nice to see/hear someone else was also touched by it. I grew up in PA Dutch country and have always been drawn to the Amish, mennonites.

Anyway, I realize I’m a little off topic, lol, I just related to your original post.

 

[SteveIndy]

Anabaptists believe the the same foundational doctrines that all Christians believe in such as the Trinity, salvation by faith etc. They believe in believer's baptism to those who are old enough to know what they are doing and who profess true faith and repentance. They also strongly believe in discipleship that leads to a changed life. But what is unique among the Anabaptists, is a commitment to Christian non-violence and reconciliation, social justice, helping the poor and needy, simplicity in living, and community.

Social Justice is not a Christian term and should only be used in relation to the confusion, conversation, and lostness of the world.

The words "Social Justice" sound good and even Christian but are never found on the lips of Jesus. The Social Justice advocate is likely to use the words of Jesus to advance his cause, especially when Jesus commands us to "Love (y)our neighbor as (y)our self." The concept of Social Justice is political with philosophical roots in the mind of men and not God.

Society has always had serious issues that God has not been reluctant to address, but men who know not God have been unmoved to follow His advice. The world and Christianity can not agree yet we find the Church linking arms with the world. "Can two walk together unless they agree?" Amos 3:3. The fact that Christians walk with the world, attend their protest rallies, adopt their language and habits, send their children to their schools, vote for its leaders, join their military to kill their enemies, and many other things are proof that the world has changed the Church and not vise-versa.

Nevertheless, the term Social Justice has found its way into the vocabulary of Evangelical Christianity in a big way and is even showing up in Kingdom Church (Anabaptist) conversations. A little leaven truly does leaven the whole lump of dough.

 

[Halbhh]

Social Justice is not a Christian term and should only be used in relation to the confusion, conversation, and lostness of the world.

The words "Social Justice" sound good and even Christian but are never found on the lips of Jesus. The Social Justice advocate is likely to use the words of Jesus to advance his cause, especially when Jesus commands us to "Love (y)our neighbor as (y)our self." The concept of Social Justice is political with philosophical roots in the mind of men and not God.

Society has always had serious issues that God has not been reluctant to address, but men who know not God have been unmoved to follow His advice. The world and Christianity can not agree yet we find the Church linking arms with the world. "Can two walk together unless they agree?" Amos 3:3. The fact that Christians walk with the world, attend their protest rallies, adopt their language and habits, send their children to their schools, vote for its leaders, join their military to kill their enemies, and many other things are proof that the world has changed the Church and not vise-versa.

Nevertheless, the term Social Justice has found its way into the vocabulary of Evangelical Christianity in a big way and is even showing up in Kingdom Church (Anabaptist) conversations. A little leaven truly does leaven the whole lump of dough.

We definitely want to keep the world out, and focus on the actual word of God.

So, when the world has a substitute, then the best thing of all is to go back to what God directly says, to refresh our memory or understanding.



Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do right, seek justice, correct the oppressor, defend the fatherless, plead for the widow."

Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mankind, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

(and there are many, many more: What Does the Bible Say About Justice?)

These 2 famous verses above would be the right amount for most people to hear for the first time that don't realize there is a Justice God Himself commands us to do.

In the New Testament, we all have heard the famous parable of Zacchaeus, but it's good to review now and then!

1 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Luke 19 NIV
---------

Wonderfully, there is a perfect summary verse Christ said to us, which encapsulates all of this and more:

Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

 

[SteveIndy]

We definitely want to keep the world out, and focus on the actual word of God.

So, when the world has a substitute, then the best thing of all is to go back to what God directly says, to refresh our memory or understanding.



Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do right, seek justice, correct the oppressor, defend the fatherless, plead for the widow."

Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O mankind, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

(and there are many, many more: What Does the Bible Say About Justice?)

These 2 famous verses above would be the right amount for most people to hear for the first time that don't realize there is a Justice God Himself commands us to do.

In the New Testament, we all have heard the famous parable of Zacchaeus, but it's good to review now and then!

1 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Luke 19 NIV
---------

Wonderfully, there is a perfect summary verse Christ said to us, which encapsulates all of this and more:

Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

I am not sure what point you are making. I agree with the Scripture you are quoting but it says nothing concerning "Social Justice" as defined by the world and the Liberal Church; they are universes apart. Social Justice is a term that sounds almost Christian but it is a term that has been hijacked by the world to sound good to immature Christians but is filled with much leaven up to and including transgenderism and everything vile and unclean.

 

[Halbhh]

I am not sure what point you are making. I agree with the Scripture you are quoting but it says nothing concerning "Social Justice" as defined by the world and the Liberal Church; they are universes apart. Social Justice is a term that sounds almost Christian but it is a term that has been hijacked by the world to sound good to immature Christians but is filled with much leaven up to and including transgenderism and everything vile and unclean.

Sorry if this is repetitive, but when the world comes up with a version of "justice", it's good to know what God says, so that we don't follow the world, but follow what God says.

Example: if the world comes up with a new version of "prayer", we won't abandon prayer of course, just to avoid doing the mistake of the world, but will remember or seek out God's way to pray He told us, through the words from Christ.

And, we can tell those in the world seeking that good thing in a mistaken way, what the Actual True Way is. It's a very good way to testify to someone I think. If you do it in love.

 

[Halbhh]

I am not sure what point you are making. I agree with the Scripture you are quoting but it says nothing concerning "Social Justice" as defined by the world and the Liberal Church; they are universes apart. Social Justice is a term that sounds almost Christian but it is a term that has been hijacked by the world to sound good to immature Christians but is filled with much leaven up to and including transgenderism and everything vile and unclean.

I realize I'm just assuming you have my own particular experiences! But everyone has different experiences. Whoops. I need to explain more.

When lost people are talking about something that sounds good, or is a kind of attempt to do some good, but they are mistaken, mostly because they are lost, but they are trying to do good, as best they know, in a mistaken way....

That's a very good opportunity to testify to them about Christ, by telling the the True Way for what they are trying to do, directly from the Words of Christ.

It's a wonderful way to spread the gospel, because you are talking to people that are seeking something (even if they aren't thinking about that at the moment), and you can spread the word, ala Mark chapter 4. Some will be "good soil"!

It's good to remember the big picture when you do this.

They aren't trying to do wrong. They are actually trying to do right!

They are just lost.

Love is one key thing we must be doing when we spread the Word.

 

[SteveIndy]

I realize I'm just assuming you have my own particular experiences! But everyone has different experiences. Whoops. I need to explain more.

When lost people are talking about something that sounds good, or is a kind of attempt to do some good, but they are mistaken, mostly because they are lost, but they are trying to do good, as best they know, in a mistaken way....

That's a very good opportunity to testify to them about Christ, by telling the the True Way for what they are trying to do, directly from the Words of Christ.

It's a wonderful way to spread the gospel, because you are talking to people that are seeking something (even if they aren't thinking about that at the moment), and you can spread the word, ala Mark chapter 4. Some will be "good soil"!

It's good to remember the big picture when you do this.

They aren't trying to do wrong. They are actually trying to do right!

They are just lost.

Love is one key thing we must be doing when we spread the Word.

I can not argue with that it sounds like good advice toward those who are outside the Body of Christ. The problem arises when it is those who are professing believers that continue to promote Social Justice which is ungodliness and a lie. The problem is common today and is even creeping into the Anabaptist congregations.

 

[Kettriken]

If we could take the "Social Justice" and turn it into just plain social justice, perhaps we could stop some of this needless quibbling. It is clear that we are to be social (to go out in the world,) and we are to practice justice (actively, as per the original wording of Micah 6.)
The bible (and history) is rife with examples of the fallen (or mislead, or the lost) doing the work of God. Does that mean that everything that they do is righteous? Likely not, but likely more of what they do is than you presume.

 

[Albion]

.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As much as people hate Trump, this man is actually taking hard steps to end human trafficking.
Unless you are listening to the media... I wonder why? ......

Jesus says His (Jesus') sheep LISTEN (and HEAR) Jesus' Voice. Will NOT listen to/will NOT follow/ another voice. (like media)