Switching churches

[snowpumpkin]

I don't even know what the term for it is but does anyone know how you switch from one "diocese" to another? I'm a Greek Orthodox convert but there are many issues within my church and after five years, I still feel like an outsider.

There is an OCA church near me that I really like. How exactly do you switch officially?

 

[InnerPhyre]

Tell your spiritual father that you want to go, get his blessing to go, and go

 

[Eastern Drifter]

I don't even know what the term for it is but does anyone know how you switch from one "diocese" to another? I'm a Greek Orthodox convert but there are many issues within my church and after five years, I still feel like an outsider.

There is an OCA church near me that I really like. How exactly do you switch officially?

Does it feel like an exclusive club for Greeks only?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't even know what the term for it is but does anyone know how you switch from one "diocese" to another? I'm a Greek Orthodox convert but there are many issues within my church and after five years, I still feel like an outsider.

There is an OCA church near me that I really like. How exactly do you switch officially?

talk to your priest and get his blessing to go, and also talk to the OCA priest just to keep him in the loop about what's going on.

and welcome to TAW!

 

[choirfiend]

you might have paperwork to switch membership if you have become a "member" at the GOA church. It just helps for the dues and such the parish pays.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I've only been "into" Orthodoxy for a year now and it seems like I just keeping hearing over and over how the Greek parishes are unfriendly and unwelcoming, distant and cold to outsiders, and grumpy or greedy. I'm not saying I buy into that, but I sure have heard that A LOT! The Greeks apparently have a lot of bad PR in the Orthodox community....

 

[-Kyriaki-]

Which is awful, because with the exception of one parish (out of the 12 in my state, and umpteen more that I've visited) I've NEVER found that to be the case and I've been Orthodox for five years.

I'm in the Greek Archdiocese of Australia and happily so. I hate the reputation Greeks have because I think it's largely unfair.

 

[Dorothea]

Which is awful, because with the exception of one parish (out of the 12 in my state, and umpteen more that I've visited) I've NEVER found that to be the case and I've been Orthodox for five years.

I'm in the Greek Archdiocese of Australia and happily so. I hate the reputation Greeks have because I think it's largely unfair.

Yes, I've heard this too, but it hasn't been the case for me either. All have been welcoming and warm in the decade that I had been attending them. I think it's just what feels comfortable to the individual. The OCA Church a few miles away, I don't feel comfortable there. I don't mind visiting and being there for some of their pan Orthodox services and such, but it doesn't feel like home for me. And unfortunately, some of the folks there don't like my GOA Church because they consider it "too liberal," it has pews (it was a baptist church), we don't cover our heads, and the icons aren't as nice. I REALLY WISH these little petty views could be squelched between the jurisdictional churches because it doesn't help to show love or unity.

 

[E.C.]

I've only been "into" Orthodoxy for a year now and it seems like I just keeping hearing over and over how the Greek parishes are unfriendly and unwelcoming, distant and cold to outsiders, and grumpy or greedy. I'm not saying I buy into that, but I sure have heard that A LOT! The Greeks apparently have a lot of bad PR in the Orthodox community....

Eh... they just have a bad rep. Like ROCOR (sorry, I'm OCA ).


Every jurisdiction has its social clubs and its parishes. The Greeks have a bad reputation about it partly because they are the biggest and, well, Greeks are kind of like Orthodoxy's Italians (most ex-Irish Catholics should get that ). Frankly, I'm more inclined to think it is more of a regionalism.
Pacific Northwest Orthodoxy: best pan-Orthodox relationship ever. In fact the most junior priest in the area, GOARCH affiliated, graduated from St. Tikhon's and was told, along with the rest of his class, "Do what they are doing in the Pacific Northwest. Foster pan-Orthodox relations. Work with your neighbors especially those who are not of your own jurisdiction". East Coast Orthodoxy: a bit more tribal from what I hear, sorry, but I can not speak with experience on that one.

To play devil's advocate for a moment when one considers that after 400 years or so of Turkish occupation one really can't blame the Greeks for being distant and/or standoffish to non-Greeks. When Greece first earned and kept their independence in 1830 from the Turks they only had as far north as today's central Greece. They fought for what land they have now until 1947 and even then experienced a dictatorial junta for a while.

 

[Joshua G.]

I've only been "into" Orthodoxy for a year now and it seems like I just keeping hearing over and over how the Greek parishes are unfriendly and unwelcoming, distant and cold to outsiders, and grumpy or greedy. I'm not saying I buy into that, but I sure have heard that A LOT! The Greeks apparently have a lot of bad PR in the Orthodox community....

I have to. I can't say I have seen that at all here locally and it would be impoassible for me to know after visiting a distant parish once or twice.

 

[Joshua G.]

Which is awful, because with the exception of one parish (out of the 12 in my state, and umpteen more that I've visited) I've NEVER found that to be the case and I've been Orthodox for five years.

I'm in the Greek Archdiocese of Australia and happily so. I hate the reputation Greeks have because I think it's largely unfair.

But I wonder if there is a difference between Greek Australians and Greek Americans? I mean, the dynamics might be different.

But, I would imagine either way, for Snow's situation, she knows what she's talking about better than anyone else in terms of her own parish.

 

[Anhelyna]

Parishes do vary enormously - particularly among the Ukes .
My own - friendly on the surface but I feel I'm tolerated rather than actually one of them . What really helped was when the chanter realised that his son ad my GodPapa actually knew each other .

The other parish I'm involved with, I'm made very very welcome I'm included in anything that's going on and they talk with me - it's a very different feel

 

[Knee V]

Here are some statistics about Orthodox life in the U.S. that may or may not be pertinent to this conversation:

http://assemblyofbishops.org/files/news/FiveFacts.pdf

 

[snowpumpkin]

Does it feel like an exclusive club for Greeks only?

Yes, at times. People recognize me when I'm with my Greek husband but not without him. When I go our Greek festival without him, I'm greeted like a regular visitor!

A few years ago, I helped with the baklava baking for the festival and the older women referred to me as xeno all day.

All of the families have their little clicks and my husband's Greek family stopped going to church twenty years ago because of it. He only goes now because I make him.

 

[snowpumpkin]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm sure not all Greek parishes are like mine. I actually think mine is on the extreme end of the anti-social spectrum. We've lost several wonderful, wonderful priests who couldn't take it anymore and left for calmer waters at other parishes. GREEK priests who couldn't take our GREEK parish anymore!

Our assistant priest, who isn't Greek himself, has told us to go wherever we feel comfortable. I just wondered what the official process entails.

I also struggle with the decision because of my kids. I feel like I am depriving them of part of their Greek heritage by removing them from the Greek church. But then I tell myself that God is above all of these ethnic differences and they need to be in a safe, friendly environment where they can focus on God, and not in a Greek place that will potentially ostracize them and make them not want to attend church. One of my half-Greek friends from church is going through this with her 5 year old right now.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think Orthodoxy is bigger than ethnic ties or identity. My wife is filipino and I'm anglo. My heritage is English, German, Irish, etc. Neither one of us has a pony in the Orthodox ethnic scheme of things. But we don't care. I like the Serbian parish that I attend because they have a lot of everything. There are Serbs, Russians, Anglo background folks like me, some Mexicans, some Asians, pretty much everything. I like that. In some ways they're more catholic than the Catholics around here that are solely-dominated by Mexicans and Portuguese. I say go where you are comfortable and happy. I think the Slavic parishes are more welcoming than Greek ones from all I hear....

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm sure not all Greek parishes are like mine. I actually think mine is on the extreme end of the anti-social spectrum. We've lost several wonderful, wonderful priests who couldn't take it anymore and left for calmer waters at other parishes. GREEK priests who couldn't take our GREEK parish anymore!

Our assistant priest, who isn't Greek himself, has told us to go wherever we feel comfortable. I just wondered what the official process entails.

I also struggle with the decision because of my kids. I feel like I am depriving them of part of their Greek heritage by removing them from the Greek church. But then I tell myself that God is above all of these ethnic differences and they need to be in a safe, friendly environment where they can focus on God, and not in a Greek place that will potentially ostracize them and make them not want to attend church. One of my half-Greek friends from church is going through this with her 5 year old right now.

 

[snowpumpkin]

I say go where you are comfortable and happy. I think the Slavic parishes are more welcoming than Greek ones from all I hear....

That is what I am thinking. That has been my experience also between my Greek church and the OCA church near me.

Here are some statistics about Orthodox life in the U.S. that may or may not be pertinent to this conversation:

This was very interesting. My favorite priest who left said that our church was more like a large Hellenic culture club than a church. We have almost 500 families. It's huge, and it is Greek. Greek people, Greek food, Greek language, Greek festival, Greek school, Greek dancing...

 

[Dorothea]

Yes, at times. People recognize me when I'm with my Greek husband but not without him. When I go our Greek festival without him, I'm greeted like a regular visitor!

A few years ago, I helped with the baklava baking for the festival and the older women referred to me as xeno all day.

All of the families have their little clicks and my husband's Greek family stopped going to church twenty years ago because of it. He only goes now because I make him.

Ah, I see you are in the Eastern part of the US. What part? Maybe New England? A few priests have told me people are very ethnic in the New England and New York area. It's especially bad with Albanians, Greeks, and Arabs apparently. So I agree with whomever said it may be a regional thing. I haven't had that here in the West.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

That is what I am thinking. That has been my experience also between my Greek church and the OCA church near me.




This was very interesting. My favorite priest who left said that our church was more like a large Hellenic culture club than a church. We have almost 500 families. It's huge, and it is Greek. Greek people, Greek food, Greek language, Greek festival, Greek school, Greek dancing...

sounds like fun!

Is the liturgy done in english?

 

[E.C.]

I also struggle with the decision because of my kids. I feel like I am depriving them of part of their Greek heritage by removing them from the Greek church. But then I tell myself that God is above all of these ethnic differences and they need to be in a safe, friendly environment where they can focus on God, and not in a Greek place that will potentially ostracize them and make them not want to attend church. One of my half-Greek friends from church is going through this with her 5 year old right now.

Replace "Greek" with "Irish Catholic" and you pretty much have a great deal on why I left the Roman Church. You will also have a great deal on why the GOARCH, like the Roman Church, is experiencing a shortage of priests.

One of our priests was with the GOARCH for eleven years and told me exactly why there is a shortage of priests in that jurisdiction: placing ethnicity before God and no encouragement to delve into the spiritual life. The only encouragement that the youth had, at least in his experience, was to become doctors, lawyers, bankers, find good Greek spouse and raise good Greek kids. When parents spend their lives telling their kids such things than it is no surprise why the great majority of them later complain and are baffled as to why their kids and grandkids do not go to church.