Swingers - Swapping Partners

Floatingaxe said:

David repented of his concubines as far as I know, and kept only to his wife, Bathsheba.

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You'll need to point us to that scripture...becuase that is not what I read. David's wives went to his son, Solomon, when he became King. Solomon had even more wives, concubines and slave-girls.

Last post on this thread...I mean it this time
chingchang

chingchang said:

You're right Nadiine. The swingers who claim to be Christian, who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, who proclaim the Gospel, who do good works in his name, who pray, who seek the truth...they aren't really Christians...because they 'swing'. Sinners can't be Christians...thanks for reminding us...

chingchang

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For sure Cristians are still sinners. But nowhere in God's word does He ever even hint that a man can unrepentantly continue in sin and TRULY be saved.

6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 1 John 3:6




3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control his own body[a] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; 6and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. 7For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8


Being a Christian should notlead anyone to perceive that they have liberty to sin in the same way that the Nicolaitans did.

This is shamelessness and should be called as such.

chingchang said:

Knowing what the Bible says does not equate to studying. Anybody can memorize scripture, read the Bible and cut/paste scripture and say "see...right here...this is what it says." Is the Bible really being understood? If it was that easy...Jesus would not have repeatedly said "he who hath ears to hear let him hear". You see...I like others on this thread know what the Bible says. But...it is our understanding of what it means that is at odds. I used to be a conservative/evangelical Bible literalists...focusing on the trees...but now I can see the forest. They live by the letter of the law...instead of the law of love (which Yeshua taught).

I will retire from this thread now. You all win...you have successfully held-off the end-times false teacher who just wants to justify sin and teach heresy!!!

Pah-lease.

chingchang

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Then understand this: Adultery means adultery, which is sex outside of marriage. Always did.

chingchang said:

You'll need to point us to that scripture...becuase that is not what I read. David's wives went to his son, Solomon, when he became King. Solomon had even more wives, concubines and slave-girls.

Last post on this thread...I mean it this time
chingchang

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Solomon and David are two different people.

David gave the concubines lodging, but he repented of his adultery with them.

Ching, I"m repeating this again in plainer terms for you

TO SLAP THE NAME "CHRISTIAN" ONTO SIN is to associate God with:
adultery, prostitution, pedophilia, murder,
lying, hatred, coveting, stealing, etc.

You are not Christian when you boldly and proudly call yourself
a "Christian liar" - as to link God with "lawful" sin.
If you're able to do such a sick thing, I assure you, that
person has NEVER met the true God personally or knows
salvation.

Committing sin and living in sin without repentance are not
the same.
Being drunk is also sin, its just as wrong to claim you're
a "Christian whino". No such thing exists.

Christians TURN from sin, not flaunt them and attach the
sin to the name of the faith that calls itself a follower
of Christ.
One isn't a true follower to continue in such things regularly
or do them in the name of God's church

Floatingaxe said:

Solomon and David are two different people.

David gave the concubines lodging, but he repented of his adultery with them.

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O.k...I know I said "last post"...but I can't let this go yet. Please provide scripture that shows David repenting of adultery with concubines. Can you do that? No? Because he never did. The ONLY time he committed adultery was with Bathsheba. This is a Biblical fact. So...again...scripture please? Or...are you filling in the gaps for God?

chingchang

No Swansong said:

What's next the Christian thieves guild?
Christian Assassins of America Local 213?

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Sign me up for those 2 when they start coming around.
Although seriously this is just pathic attempt to attach the word "Christian" to someone's sinful behavior so that they feel better as they go commiting adultery.

chingchang said:

Knowing what the Bible says does not equate to studying. Anybody can memorize scripture, read the Bible and cut/paste scripture and say "see...right here...this is what it says." Is the Bible really being understood? If it was that easy...Jesus would not have repeatedly said "he who hath ears to hear let him hear". You see...I like others on this thread know what the Bible says. But...it is our understanding of what it means that is at odds. I used to be a conservative/evangelical Bible literalists...focusing on the trees...but now I can see the forest. They live by the letter of the law...instead of the law of love (which Yeshua taught).

I will retire from this thread now. You all win...you have successfully held-off the end-times false teacher who just wants to justify sin and teach heresy!!!

Pah-lease.

chingchang

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14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 3:14-15

You know there's something to be said about a Christian who is consistent. Yall kill me with this "I followed the conservative, fundie literal" stuff for years and have finally seen the light.

You're telling us that you had the truth...you knew the truth...but NOW you reject that truth for something else.

The Bible says 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." 2 Peter 2:18-22


Why would anyone trust the double-minded teachings of such a person, especially when your teaching is throwing the word of God into disrepute?
2 Peter 2:2
Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute


Why would anyone trust your teaching now if, as you say, you were so easily blinded by the "trees" for so many years? If you weren't getting God's discernment all those years, why should anyone trust you now when what you say continues to be at odds with Scripture?

Orville said:

There are certain things in life you don't need to look to scripture for in order to assess their merit.

I'd say swinging ranks pretty damn high among the more stupid things a person could do. Forget the potential health issues, it simply reeks of a void spirit. You can try and remove the intimacy of the act in your mind, and make it a recreational sport, but you can't escape the reality that it is intimacy in it's most intense form.

I see swingers the same way I see drug or alcohol abusers; a way to numb the mind of introspection while savoring the joys of sensation. Seriously, swingers are sick.

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This thread came back from the dead.

Orville put my thoughts into words. Seriously, God gave us common sense, and most people's common sense and conscience would say that swinging is wrong.

Most people in the world who don't testify to be devout Christians would laugh at the notion of swinging. But yet there are Christians here who abdandon good common sense in favor of vain attempts to reason away and justify what is clearly sin. Strange behavior.

The scripture comes to mind, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

Saul’s successor, David, also had several wives. But he deeply repented of this sin. Few seem to truly understand the biblical record on David’s action. The account is found in II Samuel 12.
Here is what is recorded, and God is doing the speaking: “Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house; because you have despised Me [what David did despised God, not just His law] and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife” (vs. 9-12). Previously, David had conspired against and murdered Uriah, and had taken his wife Bathsheba for himself. God’s punishment was most severe. War (“the sword”) would pursue David for the rest of his life and would never “depart from his house”—and this even after he deeply repented.
Verse 11 describes what would happen: “Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house, and I will take your wives before your eyes, and give them unto your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun.”
This is an astonishing account, and it shows how severely God will deal with this sin—a sin He considers against Him. God plainly stated that David’s wives would be raped publicly that very day—under “this sun.” The use of this term meant God would deal swiftly with what David did.
But there was another immediate event—and it was the result of God’s sentence: “David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord” (vs. 13). Psalm 51 details much more of how David was broken up, deeply convicted and extremely sorrowful for what he had done. The result of David’s repentance (now back in II Samuel 12:13), was Nathan declaring, “The Lord has put away your sin; you shall not die.”
Yes, David had practiced polygamy, but he turned from it in real, deep, sincere repentance—it could be said, as deep as was the punishment for disobedience. David continued in marriage to Bathsheba, with his only legitimate wife, Michal, almost certainly now dead (II Sam. 6:23). Upon returning to Jerusalem shortly after this time, David ended the relationship with his harem of ten concubines. Let’s read: “And David came to his house at Jerusalem; and the king took the ten women his concubines, whom he had left to keep the house, and put them in ward, and fed them, but went not in unto them. So they were shut up unto the day of their death, living in widowhood” (II Sam. 20:3). David did feel an obligation to provide for these women, but he no longer cohabited with them.
Let’s further understand. David’s wives, through public rape, and his concubines, because of polygamist marriage, had all been defiled. They were required to live in “widowhood.” Also understand that, as a virile young man who had been a great warrior, and who had pursued many women in his early years, David was able to change, and to come to spiritual maturity. The scriptures record that he “went fully after the Lord” (I Kgs. 11:6). (Anyone who finds himself in such a situation should follow David’s example.)
Repentance involves change—action!—and David followed through on his change of heart by ending all practice of polygamy in his life.
David’s son Solomon became the very reverse of his father’s pattern. He began as a righteous king who had tremendous faith in God, and was given wisdom like none other before or since. But Solomon also changed—and not for the good. Scripture records that “when Solomon was old” he accumulated 1,000 women in his life—700 wives and 300 concubines. This represents an incredible departure into the pursuit of pleasure and selfish accumulation—and it was plain sin. Solomon, like Saul, copied the kings of the surrounding nations. In this, the Bible records, “Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord” (I Kgs. 11:6).




http://www.thercg.org/articles/ttap.html

Floatingaxe,

You still have not shown where David repented or showed remorse for having many wives, concubines and slaves. That is why you posted this long...convoluted bit of a "study". The only thing David felt remorse for was committing adultery with Bathsheba then having her husband killed. As proof...David received the favor of God until that very day. Many, if not all of the "heros of the faith" of the OT were polygamists. This is a fact. God never once condemned it...he actually supported it in the case of David and Solomon. David's sin was adultery and Solomon's sin was putting other Gods before the God Most High. Solomon did this under the influence of his many wives that he had brought in from the surrounding cultures who worshiped other Gods.

2 Samuel 12:7-9 (New International Version)


7 Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. 9 Why did you despise the word of the LORD by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites.

See....God gave (blessed) David with all his women and "would have given you even more". Adultery with Bathsheba started the fall-out. Up to that point David had sex with wives, concubines and slave-girls and received heapings of blessings from God.

No reading between the lines necessary.

chingchang

Floatingaxe said:

Saul’s successor, David, also had several wives. But he deeply repented of this sin. Few seem to truly understand the biblical record on David’s action. The account is found in II Samuel 12.
Here is what is recorded, and God is doing the speaking: “Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house; because you have despised Me [what David did despised God, not just His law] and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife” (vs. 9-12). Previously, David had conspired against and murdered Uriah, and had taken his wife Bathsheba for himself. God’s punishment was most severe. War (“the sword”) would pursue David for the rest of his life and would never “depart from his house”—and this even after he deeply repented.
Verse 11 describes what would happen: “Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house, and I will take your wives before your eyes, and give them unto your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun.”
This is an astonishing account, and it shows how severely God will deal with this sin—a sin He considers against Him. God plainly stated that David’s wives would be raped publicly that very day—under “this sun.” The use of this term meant God would deal swiftly with what David did.
But there was another immediate event—and it was the result of God’s sentence: “David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord” (vs. 13). Psalm 51 details much more of how David was broken up, deeply convicted and extremely sorrowful for what he had done. The result of David’s repentance (now back in II Samuel 12:13), was Nathan declaring, “The Lord has put away your sin; you shall not die.”
Yes, David had practiced polygamy, but he turned from it in real, deep, sincere repentance—it could be said, as deep as was the punishment for disobedience. David continued in marriage to Bathsheba, with his only legitimate wife, Michal, almost certainly now dead (II Sam. 6:23). Upon returning to Jerusalem shortly after this time, David ended the relationship with his harem of ten concubines. Let’s read: “And David came to his house at Jerusalem; and the king took the ten women his concubines, whom he had left to keep the house, and put them in ward, and fed them, but went not in unto them. So they were shut up unto the day of their death, living in widowhood” (II Sam. 20:3). David did feel an obligation to provide for these women, but he no longer cohabited with them.
Let’s further understand. David’s wives, through public rape, and his concubines, because of polygamist marriage, had all been defiled. They were required to live in “widowhood.” Also understand that, as a virile young man who had been a great warrior, and who had pursued many women in his early years, David was able to change, and to come to spiritual maturity. The scriptures record that he “went fully after the Lord” (I Kgs. 11:6). (Anyone who finds himself in such a situation should follow David’s example.)
Repentance involves change—action!—and David followed through on his change of heart by ending all practice of polygamy in his life.
David’s son Solomon became the very reverse of his father’s pattern. He began as a righteous king who had tremendous faith in God, and was given wisdom like none other before or since. But Solomon also changed—and not for the good. Scripture records that “when Solomon was old” he accumulated 1,000 women in his life—700 wives and 300 concubines. This represents an incredible departure into the pursuit of pleasure and selfish accumulation—and it was plain sin. Solomon, like Saul, copied the kings of the surrounding nations. In this, the Bible records, “Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord” (I Kgs. 11:6).




http://www.thercg.org/articles/ttap.html

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Floatingaxe said:

I have given you what I know about David repenting of his sin, including polygamy. You can accept it or deny it. It's not my decision.

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I will deny it...because you're speaking evil of something that God has NEVER condemned! The most faithful servants of God in OT were polygamists...and there were many. Here are some of the most important ones...

Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon.

I guess they were all mistaken? If only they would have had the knowlege that you have they would have been able to be in better standing with God?

I suggest sticking to the NT arguments for monogamy rather than trying to convince others (falsely) that God is/was against polygamy.

chingchang

chingchang said:

I will deny it...because you're speaking evil of something that God has NEVER condemned! The most faithful servants of God in OT were polygamists...and there were many. Here are some of the most important ones...

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False. God hates polygamy. Always has. Please initiate a thread on this offshoot topic.

Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon.

I guess they were all mistaken? If only they would have had the knowlege that you have they would have been able to be in better standing with God?

I suggest sticking to the NT arguments for monogamy rather than trying to convince others (falsely) that God is/was against polygamy.

chingchang

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The OT and the NT are equally authoritative for learning righteousness. Why? Because God wrote them BOTH for us! God never changes.

False. God hates polygamy. Always has. Please initiate a thread on this offshoot topic.

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Thread already exists and the topic has been rolled-over. We have to assume that God does not hate polygamy because he has never made a law against it. He obviously hates adultery, murder, theft, etc...but don't you think if he "hates polygamy" we would find a law somewhere in the Torah that states "thou shalt take no more than one wife"? You don't want to believe the facts right before your eyes. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a sin. God has not spoken against polygamy...so you shouldn't either!

The OT and the NT are equally authoritative for learning righteousness. Why? Because God wrote them BOTH for us! God never changes.

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I'm just saying if you're going to put up an argument against polygamy, you're not going to do it using the OT. I agree that the Bible says God never changes...and if that is true then he is still not against polygamy. BTW...God DID NOT write the Bible...men did. This is historical fact.

chingchang

chingchang said:

Thread already exists and the topic has been rolled-over. We have to assume that God does not hate polygamy because he has never made a law against it. He obviously hates adultery, murder, theft, etc...but don't you think if he "hates polygamy" we would find a law somewhere in the Torah that states "thou shalt take no more than one wife"? You don't want to believe the facts right before your eyes. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a sin. God has not spoken against polygamy...so you shouldn't either!

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One man, one woman is the model.

I'm just saying if you're going to put up an argument against polygamy, you're not going to do it using the OT. I agree that the Bible says God never changes...and if that is true then he is still not against polygamy. BTW...God DID NOT write the Bible...men did. This is historical fact.

chingchang

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This is not an anti-polygamy thread. You may start another.

God wrote the Bible using men's hands and spoke His mind through their minds. Enough of this wasteful dalliance. Start a new thread on that, too, if you wish.

Nadiine said:

Hi Sunlover!!
great post & scriptures.
It's real clear that we ARE our 'brother's/sister's keepers'.

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Hi Nadiine! Thanks
Looks like nobody else saw the post
Nothing new under the sun over here huh?
Yes, we are our brothers keeper.

Floatingaxe said:

One man, one woman is the model.

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Thank GOD!
One's more than enough..

sunlover1 said:

Hi Nadiine! Thanks
Looks like nobody else saw the post
Nothing new under the sun over here huh?
Yes, we are our brothers keeper.


Thank GOD!
One's more than enough..

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Hi there, sunlover!

As I said earlier, I'm sort of amazed that some continue to re-work what has been said to accommodate their own belief system. As far as I can read no one on this thread has advocated adultery or swinging. What I have responded to was the notion that 'sin' is what people believe personally. There is nothing wrong with this per se. But when such personal belief then is utilised to create score and laughter demonstrates something else.

That 'something else' may well be fear or a sense of personal insecurity. Then again that 'something else' may be the arrogant belief in one's own righteousness. I have simply pointed out that those who claim such privilege no longer pick up stones but use icons of laughter and scorn. The effect is the same - to kill any other way of thinking other than their own. The Pharisees were skilled at these techniques. They tried to silence Jesus. The Church has also utilised the same method over the years. The Church tried to silence those other holy writings. The result - the Church has lost any authority which it should be enjoying. People no longer respond to tactics of fear and intimidation. They are too savvy in the 21st Century.

Rather than banging the Bible about you might come up with some other alternatives. I can think of a few. But I can only guess any such alternative will be met with derision and scorn as has previous posts.

But for those who like throwing stones I have yet to read anything from you about my earlier challenge - those who look at others with adulterous thoughts have already committed adultery in the hearts. In this respect, we have all committed adultery in our heart. To pretend otherwise demonstrates pride if not insolence.

Now, anyone who responds without acknowledging as much is - well, not being fair dinkum. Yet, God, through his divine love, can restore that loss. So, please drop the collective charade, come out from behind your masks of sanctimonious idealism and make some admissions - that our concept of righteousness is but filthy rags before a truly holy God.

ghs1994 said:

i'm sure you're right, but my curiosity is where they get this doctrine from so it can also have the opportunity to hear the other side of that discussion, then be able to make a rational or spiritual decision instead of one based on flesh and what makes them feel good.

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They misuse the law of love. They imply that anything they do that doesn't harm is OK. I agree with that, but what they ignore is the harm
that is done by swinging. They ignore possible pregnacy, STD's, ect.
I think I know the site, they even promote children having sex.

It's a lack of biblical scripture. I know one person at a site, probably the one you went. He comes across sincere, but once you debate other issues, you can see Christ has little to do with life...it's all about having sex and finding away to excuse it.

Many swingers can have sex and claim no problems, no jealously, ect. I think they lack love on a true emotional level. The spouse becomes just
another tool to get into every sexual situation you can. Those that get
deep into this become sex craved..they need more and more. It's like a drug..you start doing about anything.