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David repented of his concubines as far as I know, and kept only to his wife, Bathsheba.
You're right Nadiine. The swingers who claim to be Christian, who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, who proclaim the Gospel, who do good works in his name, who pray, who seek the truth...they aren't really Christians...because they 'swing'. Sinners can't be Christians...thanks for reminding us...
chingchang
Knowing what the Bible says does not equate to studying. Anybody can memorize scripture, read the Bible and cut/paste scripture and say "see...right here...this is what it says." Is the Bible really being understood? If it was that easy...Jesus would not have repeatedly said "he who hath ears to hear let him hear". You see...I like others on this thread know what the Bible says. But...it is our understanding of what it means that is at odds. I used to be a conservative/evangelical Bible literalists...focusing on the trees...but now I can see the forest. They live by the letter of the law...instead of the law of love (which Yeshua taught).
I will retire from this thread now. You all win...you have successfully held-off the end-times false teacher who just wants to justify sin and teach heresy!!!
Pah-lease.
chingchang
You'll need to point us to that scripture...becuase that is not what I read. David's wives went to his son, Solomon, when he became King. Solomon had even more wives, concubines and slave-girls.
Last post on this thread...I mean it this time
chingchang
Solomon and David are two different people.
David gave the concubines lodging, but he repented of his adultery with them.
Sign me up for those 2 when they start coming around.What's next the Christian thieves guild?
Christian Assassins of America Local 213?
Knowing what the Bible says does not equate to studying. Anybody can memorize scripture, read the Bible and cut/paste scripture and say "see...right here...this is what it says." Is the Bible really being understood? If it was that easy...Jesus would not have repeatedly said "he who hath ears to hear let him hear". You see...I like others on this thread know what the Bible says. But...it is our understanding of what it means that is at odds. I used to be a conservative/evangelical Bible literalists...focusing on the trees...but now I can see the forest. They live by the letter of the law...instead of the law of love (which Yeshua taught).
I will retire from this thread now. You all win...you have successfully held-off the end-times false teacher who just wants to justify sin and teach heresy!!!
Pah-lease.
chingchang
There are certain things in life you don't need to look to scripture for in order to assess their merit.
I'd say swinging ranks pretty damn high among the more stupid things a person could do. Forget the potential health issues, it simply reeks of a void spirit. You can try and remove the intimacy of the act in your mind, and make it a recreational sport, but you can't escape the reality that it is intimacy in it's most intense form.
I see swingers the same way I see drug or alcohol abusers; a way to numb the mind of introspection while savoring the joys of sensation. Seriously, swingers are sick.
Sauls successor, David, also had several wives. But he deeply repented of this sin. Few seem to truly understand the biblical record on Davids action. The account is found in II Samuel 12.
Here is what is recorded, and God is doing the speaking: Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house; because you have despised Me [what David did despised God, not just His law] and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife (vs. 9-12). Previously, David had conspired against and murdered Uriah, and had taken his wife Bathsheba for himself. Gods punishment was most severe. War (the sword) would pursue David for the rest of his life and would never depart from his houseand this even after he deeply repented.
Verse 11 describes what would happen: Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house, and I will take your wives before your eyes, and give them unto your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun.
This is an astonishing account, and it shows how severely God will deal with this sina sin He considers against Him. God plainly stated that Davids wives would be raped publicly that very dayunder this sun. The use of this term meant God would deal swiftly with what David did.
But there was another immediate eventand it was the result of Gods sentence: David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord (vs. 13). Psalm 51 details much more of how David was broken up, deeply convicted and extremely sorrowful for what he had done. The result of Davids repentance (now back in II Samuel 12:13), was Nathan declaring, The Lord has put away your sin; you shall not die.
Yes, David had practiced polygamy, but he turned from it in real, deep, sincere repentanceit could be said, as deep as was the punishment for disobedience. David continued in marriage to Bathsheba, with his only legitimate wife, Michal, almost certainly now dead (II Sam. 6:23). Upon returning to Jerusalem shortly after this time, David ended the relationship with his harem of ten concubines. Lets read: And David came to his house at Jerusalem; and the king took the ten women his concubines, whom he had left to keep the house, and put them in ward, and fed them, but went not in unto them. So they were shut up unto the day of their death, living in widowhood (II Sam. 20:3). David did feel an obligation to provide for these women, but he no longer cohabited with them.
Lets further understand. Davids wives, through public rape, and his concubines, because of polygamist marriage, had all been defiled. They were required to live in widowhood. Also understand that, as a virile young man who had been a great warrior, and who had pursued many women in his early years, David was able to change, and to come to spiritual maturity. The scriptures record that he went fully after the Lord (I Kgs. 11:6). (Anyone who finds himself in such a situation should follow Davids example.)
Repentance involves changeaction!and David followed through on his change of heart by ending all practice of polygamy in his life.
Davids son Solomon became the very reverse of his fathers pattern. He began as a righteous king who had tremendous faith in God, and was given wisdom like none other before or since. But Solomon also changedand not for the good. Scripture records that when Solomon was old he accumulated 1,000 women in his life700 wives and 300 concubines. This represents an incredible departure into the pursuit of pleasure and selfish accumulationand it was plain sin. Solomon, like Saul, copied the kings of the surrounding nations. In this, the Bible records, Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord (I Kgs. 11:6).
http://www.thercg.org/articles/ttap.html
I have given you what I know about David repenting of his sin, including polygamy. You can accept it or deny it. It's not my decision.
I will deny it...because you're speaking evil of something that God has NEVER condemned! The most faithful servants of God in OT were polygamists...and there were many. Here are some of the most important ones...
The OT and the NT are equally authoritative for learning righteousness. Why? Because God wrote them BOTH for us! God never changes.Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon.
I guess they were all mistaken? If only they would have had the knowlege that you have they would have been able to be in better standing with God?
I suggest sticking to the NT arguments for monogamy rather than trying to convince others (falsely) that God is/was against polygamy.
chingchang
False. God hates polygamy. Always has. Please initiate a thread on this offshoot topic.
The OT and the NT are equally authoritative for learning righteousness. Why? Because God wrote them BOTH for us! God never changes.
Thread already exists and the topic has been rolled-over. We have to assume that God does not hate polygamy because he has never made a law against it. He obviously hates adultery, murder, theft, etc...but don't you think if he "hates polygamy" we would find a law somewhere in the Torah that states "thou shalt take no more than one wife"? You don't want to believe the facts right before your eyes. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a sin. God has not spoken against polygamy...so you shouldn't either!
I'm just saying if you're going to put up an argument against polygamy, you're not going to do it using the OT. I agree that the Bible says God never changes...and if that is true then he is still not against polygamy. BTW...God DID NOT write the Bible...men did. This is historical fact.
chingchang
Hi Nadiine! ThanksHi Sunlover!!
great post & scriptures.
It's real clear that we ARE our 'brother's/sister's keepers'.
Thank GOD!One man, one woman is the model.
Hi Nadiine! Thanks
Looks like nobody else saw the post
Nothing new under the sun over here huh?
Yes, we are our brothers keeper.
Thank GOD!
One's more than enough..
i'm sure you're right, but my curiosity is where they get this doctrine from so it can also have the opportunity to hear the other side of that discussion, then be able to make a rational or spiritual decision instead of one based on flesh and what makes them feel good.
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