Swedenborg

[nightflight]

What think ye of Emmanuel Swedenborg, the 18th century mystic who claimed to have seen the afterlife? Was he wrong? Right? Somewhere in between?

I find him and his teaching intriguing, but there is a lot of crazy (to me) in there as well.

Basics:

• God is infinitely loving and at the center of every life.
• Truth is love in action. Actions performed out of love are genuine expressions in a physical form of what love means.
• There is one God whose essence is Divine Love and Wisdom. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all aspects of God just as body, mind, and soul are all aspects of one person.
• The Bible is the inspired Word of God that provides inspiration and help to lead better and more fulfilling lives. The literal sense of Scripture tells the story of the people of God, and contains a deeper meaning that illumines the journey of the human soul.
• People are essentially spirits clothed with material bodies. At death, the material body is laid aside and the person continues to live on in the world of spirit choosing a heavenly life or a hellish one, based on the quality of life choices made here.
• God gives everyone the freedom to choose their beliefs and live their lives accordingly. Salvation is available for people of all religions.
• The Second Coming has taken place—and in fact still is taking place. It is not an actual physical appearance of the Lord, but rather his return in spirit and truth that is being effected as a present reality.
• God is infinitely loving and at the center of every life.

http://www.swedenborg.org/Beliefs.aspx

Famous Swedenborgians:
Andrew Carnegie
Helen Keller
John Chapman (Johnny Appleseed)

William Blake and Emerson weren't "followers" but were intrigued by ES's teachings.

I'm just wondering what others here may think.

 

[gord44]

Interesting. I will have to read more on them. Thanks for sharing!

 

[tdidymas]

What think ye of Emmanuel Swedenborg, the 18th century mystic who claimed to have seen the afterlife? Was he wrong? Right? Somewhere in between?

I find him and his teaching intriguing, but there is a lot of crazy (to me) in there as well.

Basics:

• God is infinitely loving and at the center of every life.
• Truth is love in action. Actions performed out of love are genuine expressions in a physical form of what love means.
• There is one God whose essence is Divine Love and Wisdom. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all aspects of God just as body, mind, and soul are all aspects of one person.
• The Bible is the inspired Word of God that provides inspiration and help to lead better and more fulfilling lives. The literal sense of Scripture tells the story of the people of God, and contains a deeper meaning that illumines the journey of the human soul.
• People are essentially spirits clothed with material bodies. At death, the material body is laid aside and the person continues to live on in the world of spirit choosing a heavenly life or a hellish one, based on the quality of life choices made here.
• God gives everyone the freedom to choose their beliefs and live their lives accordingly. Salvation is available for people of all religions.
• The Second Coming has taken place—and in fact still is taking place. It is not an actual physical appearance of the Lord, but rather his return in spirit and truth that is being effected as a present reality.
• God is infinitely loving and at the center of every life.

http://www.swedenborg.org/Beliefs.aspx

Famous Swedenborgians:
Andrew Carnegie
Helen Keller
John Chapman (Johnny Appleseed)

William Blake and Emerson weren't "followers" but were intrigued by ES's teachings.

I'm just wondering what others here may think.

Just from a cursory reading, I see a major problem with it:

God gives everyone the freedom to choose their beliefs and live their lives accordingly. Salvation is available for people of all religions.

This is the philosophy that "there are many paths to God" in which all religions have equal value. But nothing could be further from the truth. Here is what that theory lacks which the Bible teaches:
1. Christ presented Himself as the exclusive way to God and His kingdom
2. Through Christ we have redemption from our sins
3. The resurrection of the physical body is one of the tenants of the Christian faith
4. Only faith in Christ justifies us in God's sight and makes us righteous

It appears to me that Swedenborg thought that he could choose heaven by making the right choices in this life, and working his way to it. This is the fault of every religion but true Christianity. Faith in Christ is the only way there. Salvation is through faith alone, by grace alone, in Christ alone, from the Word of God alone.

Therefore, "choosing beliefs and living life accordingly" is a fool's errand.
TD

 

[-57]

What think ye of Emmanuel Swedenborg, the 18th century mystic who claimed to have seen the afterlife? Was he wrong? Right? Somewhere in between?

I find him and his teaching intriguing, but there is a lot of crazy (to me) in there as well.

Basics:

• People are essentially spirits clothed with material bodies. At death, the material body is laid aside and the person continues to live on in the world of spirit choosing a heavenly life or a hellish one, based on the quality of life choices made here.

One of the bullets in the OP tells us...
"People are essentially spirits clothed with material bodies. At death, the material body is laid aside and the person continues to live on in the world of spirit choosing a heavenly life or a hellish one, based on the quality of life choices made here".

For starters...from this basic point we can learn it's not true christianity.

For instance one of the basics says "The Bible is the inspired Word of God that provides inspiration and help to lead better and more fulfilling lives."

So, if that be their belief.....how do they use the bible to support the bullet above?...."live on in the world of spirit choosing a heavenly life or a hellish one"

 

[Albion]

Therefore, "choosing beliefs and living life accordingly" is a fool's errand.
TD

It's complicated, but Swedenborg's POV is not well described by what you wrote here. He was profoundly Christian, not as it may seem, "all religions are true, etc.")

 

[Fizzywig]

Just from a cursory reading, I see a major problem with it:

This is the philosophy that "there are many paths to God" in which all religions have equal value. But nothing could be further from the truth. Here is what that theory lacks which the Bible teaches:
1. Christ presented Himself as the exclusive way to God and His kingdom

As I see it, it is not a "philosophy" that there are many ways to God. It is the living experience of many who have reached the heart of their own Faith and from that heart have been able to recognise their brothers and sisters of another.

There are many Christians who do recognise, and have always recognised, that the "one way" text gives voice to the Eternal Word that St John's Gospel proclaims as the light which lights all who come into the world, and through Whom all things are made.

As such it would be false to assert that Jesus claimed that HE was the only way. Obviously this way of understanding the text brings up such questions found time and time again on Christian Forums, such as "what about those who have never heard of Jesus?" etc etc, which quite frankly never get a satisfactory answer.

The Christian mystic Meister Eckhart said....."They do Him wrong who take God in just one particular way - they have the way rather than God."

Indeed.

( This not to mention that the authorative texts of other major Faiths have their very own "one way only" verses )

 

[Albion]

As such it would be false to assert that Jesus claimed that HE was the only way. Obviously this way of understanding the text brings up such questions found time and time again on Christian Forums, such as "what about those who have never heard of Jesus?" etc etc, which quite frankly never get a satisfactory answer.

But the topic here is Swedenborg, and he believed that Jesus was not only God in the flesh but was the Father himself.

 

[-57]

As I see it, it is not a "philosophy" that there are many ways to God. It is the living experience of many who have reached the heart of their own Faith and from that heart have been able to recognise their brothers and sisters of another.

There are many Christians who do recognise, and have always recognised, that the "one way" text gives voice to the Eternal Word that St John's Gospel proclaims as the light which lights all who come into the world, and through Whom all things are made.

As such it would be false to assert that Jesus claimed that HE was the only way. Obviously this way of understanding the text brings up such questions found time and time again on Christian Forums, such as "what about those who have never heard of Jesus?" etc etc, which quite frankly never get a satisfactory answer.

The Christian mystic Meister Eckhart said....."They do Him wrong who take God in just one particular way - they have the way rather than God."

Indeed.

( This not to mention that the authorative texts of other major Faiths have their very own "one way only" verses )

The bible clearly says Jesus is the only way.....so ...it would NOT be false to assert that Jesus claimed that HE was the only way.

 

[-57]

But the topic here is Swedenborg, and he believed that Jesus was not only God in the flesh but was the Father himself.

I don't think Swedenborg believed in the sacrificial atonement made on the cross by Jesus....the imputation of our sins to Christ

 

[Fizzywig]

But the topic here is Swedenborg, and he believed that Jesus was not only God in the flesh but was the Father himself.

Thanks. Then I remain on topic. What do we think of Swedenborg?

"A way stands open into heaven, but none can enter the way except those who have heaven within them" ( Swedenborg, from Conjugial Love, para 500 )

As Dozaikin of the zen tradition said...."The Way is near"

 

[Albion]

I don't think Swedenborg believed in the sacrificial atonement made on the cross by Jesus....the imputation of our sins to Christ

I think you're safe to say that, but I haven't disagreed with everything that's been posted so far. In that post I just took issue with the idea that Jesus didn't claim to be the Way, the only Way. That particular charge, and especially when it is associated with Swedenborg, I believe is unsustainable.

 

[Fizzywig]

The bible clearly says Jesus is the only way.....so ...it would NOT be false to assert that Jesus claimed that HE was the only way.

It is a matter of interpretation. I would request you to read my post again. I do not claim to be right, but I would appreciate some sort of genuine engagement with my post.

Thanks.

 

[Albion]

It is a matter of interpretation. I would request you to read my post again. I do not claim to be right, but I would appreciate some sort of genuine engagement with my post.

Thanks.

What Swedenborg's view of the nature of Christ was isn't a matter of interpretation, though.

 

[Fizzywig]

What Swedenborg's view of the nature of Christ was isn't a matter of interpretation, though.

I do not dispute that - in the sense that I do not know enough about Swedenborg and his teachings to be able to say one way or the other.

I was referring to Biblical interpretation........but I admit we could be drifting off topic, a habit of mine.

Thanks.

 

[Albion]

As for the OP, the topic is really interesting. He is interesting. It's easy to sympathize with him even if he's thought to be wrong. But Swedenborgianism itself is so intricate that one hardly knows how to start.

 

[-57]

It is a matter of interpretation. I would request you to read my post again. I do not claim to be right, but I would appreciate some sort of genuine engagement with my post.

Thanks.

Genuine engagement below....

Here's what the bible says about salvation in Jesus Christ only:

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

1st Tim 2:5 supports that with..."For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"

Acts 4:12 speaking of Christ Jesus also supports John 14:6....And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

If it is Swedenborg's view there is salvation in another as well as Christ then Swedenborg's view is not biblical.

 

[gord44]

The bible clearly says Jesus is the only way.....so ...it would NOT be false to assert that Jesus claimed that HE was the only way.

That's if you read it a certain way. I see it more as him describing his path and example as the way, not literally the religion that spawned after him.

 

[Fizzywig]

Genuine engagement below....

Here's what the bible says about salvation in Jesus Christ only:

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

1st Tim 2:5 supports that with..."For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"

Acts 4:12 speaking of Christ Jesus also supports John 14:6....And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

If it is Swedenborg's view there is salvation in another as well as Christ then Swedenborg's view is not biblical.

Thank you.

Your own interpretations are born of the Sola Scriptura Doctrine of Luther via the Protestant Reformation. There is also the more nuanced view of scripture and of its interpretation of the Catholic Church ( I actually quoted this in full on another thread. As I am restricted to my Kindle for a few days I am unable to trace it )

I only say two things here. There are indeed many Christians who would recognise the significance of what I originally posted - the books are out there and appear to sell well.

Second, in the end my own interest in interpretative disputes between Christians is limited - for me the entire Bible, like all other Scriptures of all other Faiths, is the work of human hands and human thoughts.

(As a Pure Land Buddhist, this does not preclude me from finding enlightening aspects within them. Nor in my grandchildren)

Thank you for your engagement.

 

[Albion]

That's if you read it a certain way. I see it more as him describing his path and example as the way, not literally the religion that spawned after him.

Well, this is all beside the point. Christianity from ancient times has overwhelmingly acclaimed Christ as true God and true Man. That's the prevailing view in almost all corners of Christianity today. So here comes Swedenborg, who has somewhat different views.

What do we think of them?--because Swedenborg is not just a run of the mill Unitarian. His views are basically unique. And they're based upon his claim that he was permitted to actually see the other world, in which, he maintained, we all are currently living, although we don't realize it.

 

[-57]

That's if you read it a certain way. I see it more as him describing his path and example as the way, not literally the religion that spawned after him.

If those were the only 3 verses in the bible...you might have a point. But the bible contains much more about Jesus, who He was what He did and why He did it....