Supreme Court Sides with Trans Girl

[public hermit]

The Supreme Court on Thursday sided with a 12-year-old transgender girl who is challenging a West Virginia ban on transgender athletes joining girls sports teams, temporarily blocking the state from enforcing the prohibition.

Supreme Court sides with 12-year-old transgender girl fighting West Virginia's sports ban

West Virginia officials asked the Supreme Court to revive a 2021 law that requires schools to create sports teams based on sex assigned at birth.

www.usatoday.com

That's interesting, but at some point, the Supreme Court is going to have to debate (again) the issue regarding trans rights. They've passed on some more recent opportunities.

 

[hedrick]

The Supreme Court on Thursday sided with a 12-year-old transgender girl who is challenging a West Virginia ban on transgender athletes joining girls sports teams, temporarily blocking the state from enforcing the prohibition.

Supreme Court sides with 12-year-old transgender girl fighting West Virginia's sports ban

West Virginia officials asked the Supreme Court to revive a 2021 law that requires schools to create sports teams based on sex assigned at birth.

www.usatoday.com

That's interesting, but at some point, the Supreme Court is going to have to debate (again) the issue regarding trans rights. They've passed on some more recent opportunities.

Maybe, but Biden’s recent proposed interpretation of a title IX is going to make challenges hard, since it allows discrimination in the cases where there is a plausible justification.

 

[public hermit]

Maybe, but Biden’s recent proposed interpretation of a title IX is going to make challenges hard, since it allows discrimination in the cases where there is a plausible justification.

Are you referring the proposed change announced today?

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1168460726/biden-title-ix-transgender-sports-ban

 

[hedrick]

Are you referring the proposed change announced today?

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1168460726/biden-title-ix-transgender-sports-ban

Yes, but the NYT article gives more detail. It would require full trans participation in elementary school, but in high school allows discrimination for reasons of fairness or danger of injury, judgement that would need to be made for specific sports. While I think the anti-trans rules reflect general animus against trans, the public justifications have generally been based on those two considerations. School Sports Cannot ‘Categorically’ Ban Transgender Athletes, Under Biden Proposal

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I don't believe that transgender females should be able to complete against females in competition. Even as toddlers, Transgenders females have male body.

 

[A2SG]

I don't believe that transgender females should be able to complete against females in competition. Even as toddlers, Transgenders females have male body.

I guess it would depend on whether or not the sex of the participants is really an issue. Some women can be just as strong or just as athletic as some men, even more so in a lot of cases. I don't know if sex is always the most significant determining factor.

Maybe we should leave sex out of it, and make a different distinction for different kinds of sports, something akin to a weight class or something, where a less arbitrary difference determines who should and shouldn't compete against someone else.

-- A2SG, wondering who would win in a competition between Ronda Rousey and Michael Cera.....

 

[Ken-1122]

The Supreme Court on Thursday sided with a 12-year-old transgender girl who is challenging a West Virginia ban on transgender athletes joining girls sports teams, temporarily blocking the state from enforcing the prohibition.

Supreme Court sides with 12-year-old transgender girl fighting West Virginia's sports ban

West Virginia officials asked the Supreme Court to revive a 2021 law that requires schools to create sports teams based on sex assigned at birth.

www.usatoday.com

That's interesting, but at some point, the Supreme Court is going to have to debate (again) the issue regarding trans rights. They've passed on some more recent opportunities.

I couldn't help but notice how the article mentioned "sex assigned at birth". Sex isn't assigned at birth, it's determined.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Maybe, but Biden’s recent proposed interpretation of a title IX is going to make challenges hard, since it allows discrimination in the cases where there is a plausible justification.

You mean the government is likely to drop the case?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I guess it would depend on whether or not the sex of the participants is really an issue. Some women can be just as strong or just as athletic as some men, even more so in a lot of cases. I don't know if sex is always the most significant determining factor.

Serena Williams, most celebrated and greatest female tennis player in history....by a considerable amount....wisely ended controversy around her being named "the greatest tennis player of all time" by stating she wouldn't even break into the top 50 of the men's category.

Maybe we should leave sex out of it, and make a different distinction for different kinds of sports, something akin to a weight class or something, where a less arbitrary difference determines who should and shouldn't compete against someone else.

-- A2SG, wondering who would win in a competition between Ronda Rousey and Michael Cera.....

Maybe we shouldn't. If you have to pick a skinny and untalented actor and one of the first extremely successful female mma fighters....you're only kidding yourself.

 

[Pommer]

Yes, but the NYT article gives more detail. It would require full trans participation in elementary school, but in high school allows discrimination for reasons of fairness or danger of injury, judgement that would need to be made for specific sports. While I think the anti-trans rules reflect general animus against trans, the public justifications have generally been based on those two considerations. School Sports Cannot ‘Categorically’ Ban Transgender Athletes, Under Biden Proposal

It’s a carve-out (cave-in) for folks to make sure the 200 cases of this happening in the next century, can have all the misery that trans folks from way-back-in-the-day, had to endure, at no extra charge (unless they challenge it in court)!

 

[A2SG]

Serena Williams, most celebrated and greatest female tennis player in history....by a considerable amount....wisely ended controversy around her being named "the greatest tennis player of all time" by stating she wouldn't even break into the top 50 of the men's category.

Seems to me Billie Jean King proved that a woman can compete with a man on equal footing playing tennis. She won, by the way.

Maybe Serena should play against a man, see how it works out. You never know.

Maybe we shouldn't. If you have to pick a skinny and untalented actor and one of the first extremely successful female mma fighters....you're only kidding yourself.

I picked those two examples to show that some women are just as strong or athletic as men, and even more so in some cases.

So maybe sex isn't the best criteria to use.

-- A2SG, wondering if we can come up with some others.....

 

[Ana the Ist]

Seems to me Billie Jean King proved that a woman can compete with a man on equal footing playing tennis. She won, by the way.

She was mid 30s? And the best woman tennis player in her time? Bobby Riggs was mid 50s.

Again, if you need a 20 year difference to beat a top male tennis player....what possible hope could you have against a top male in his prime.

Maybe Serena should play against a man, see how it works out. You never know.

I know...she knows...perhaps you don't but that seems irrelevant. I'm certain she's played against men in practice or exhibition. She understands what you don't.

I picked those two examples to show that some women are just as strong or athletic as men, and even more so in some cases.

If there's a 20 year difference? Ok.

So maybe sex isn't the best criteria to use.

-- A2SG, wondering if we can come up with some others.....

Seems like it's consistently relevant. How many women held the Olympic record for fastest 100 meter sprint?

 

[DaisyDay]

Serena Williams, most celebrated and greatest female tennis player in history....by a considerable amount....wisely ended controversy around her being named "the greatest tennis player of all time" by stating she wouldn't even break into the top 50 of the men's category.

When did she say that?

 

[rjs330]

Seems to me Billie Jean King proved that a woman can compete with a man on equal footing playing tennis. She won, by the way.

Maybe Serena should play against a man, see how it works out. You never know.




I picked those two examples to show that some women are just as strong or athletic as men, and even more so in some cases.

So maybe sex isn't the best criteria to use.

-- A2SG, wondering if we can come up with some others.....

I think you should go back and review the history of that match. Riggs was 55 and Billie Jean King was 29. Riggs retired from professional tennis in 1951. The match took place in 1973 22 years after his professional career was over.

So I suppose we could let 55 year old men compete.

 

[A2SG]

She was mid 30s? And the best woman tennis player in her time? Bobby Riggs was mid 50s.

Which shows that sex isn't always the most significant difference when competing in sports.

Again, if you need a 20 year difference to beat a top male tennis player....what possible hope could you have against a top male in his prime.

Maybe we should forget sex as a difference in competition, and use age instead? Or something else more relevant to the specific competition?

I know...she knows...perhaps you don't but that seems irrelevant. I'm certain she's played against men in practice or exhibition. She understands what you don't.

I've no doubt about that.

If there's a 20 year difference? Ok.

Michael Cera is two years younger than Ronda Rousey. So they're just about equal then?

Or maybe there are many other differences we should consider when deciding who should compete against whom?

Seems like it's consistently relevant. How many women held the Olympic record for fastest 100 meter sprint?

I'm not saying sex isn't an issue in some cases, just that it might not be one in ALL cases.

Maybe we shouldn't worry about sex so much, and concentrate on relevant differences when considering who should be able to compete in certain sports.

-- A2SG, wondering how much of this comes from some men not wanting to lose to a woman in sports.....

 

[A2SG]

I think you should go back and review the history of that match. Riggs was 55 and Billie Jean King was 29. Riggs retired from professional tennis in 1951. The match took place in 1973 22 years after his professional career was over.

So I suppose we could let 55 year old men compete.

I was making the case that sex alone isn't always a significant difference in competitions. You're showing that other factors, like age, can be even more significant.

-- A2SG, can't disagree with that.....

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I guess it would depend on whether or not the sex of the participants is really an issue. Some women can be just as strong or just as athletic as some men, even more so in a lot of cases. I don't know if sex is always the most significant determining factor.

Maybe we should leave sex out of it, and make a different distinction for different kinds of sports, something akin to a weight class or something, where a less arbitrary difference determines who should and shouldn't compete against someone else.

-- A2SG, wondering who would win in a competition between Ronda Rousey and Michael Cera.....

As long as a Transgender female has male testosterone going into the body, at any point of their life. It's unfair in women's sports. No, we shouldn't leave the facts that transgender females. Are male bodies, with a female mind. It's unfair to real females. That didn't hame male testosterone in their body.

 

[A2SG]

As long as a Transgender female has male testosterone going into the body, at any point of their life. It's unfair in women's sports. No, we shouldn't leave the facts that transgender females. Are male bodies, with a female mind. It's unfair to real females. That didn't hame male testosterone in their body.

Does having more testosterone always mean you're gonna win?

Maybe we should measure testosterone levels and award victories based on that.

-- A2SG, it'd save money on building sports arenas.....

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Does having more testosterone always mean you're gonna win?

Maybe we should measure testosterone levels and award victories based on that.

-- A2SG, it'd save money on building sports arenas.....

It doesn't matter. If Transgender female has ever had male testosterone or male parts.They shouldn't be allowed in women sports competitions. Their body is still male on the inside.

 

[Yttrium]

Maybe we shouldn't worry about sex so much, and concentrate on relevant differences when considering who should be able to compete in certain sports.

It sounds to me like you're advocating the complete elimination of women's sports.