Supporting The Troops Is Supporting The War

[NeverClever]

I don't see how we define it changing the facts and results of war.

I just want to get any misunderstanding out of the way. Rather then assume how you define things, I just ask.

What other reason are they over there other then to create war?

A Solider's purpose is defined by his/her mission. Thus, a soldier's role can be one of humanatarian aid or police action ( such as guarding infrastructure )

War is a collective concept of individuals forcing their will onto others using violence in attempts to control other individuals.

Are Soldiers, who are defending a Muslim holy site, guilty of making "War" for killing those who attempt to destroy it by violent means? What about killing to protect innocents?

 

[Lisa0315]

I am not dodging anything that has baring to this discussion. You seem to just trying to shift its focus.

The discussion being people are hypocrites that claim they support the troop but not the war.

If you wish to have such a discussion then please start your own thread. But don't expect me to take part in it. I find it to be disingenuous of you to try to change the topic as you are attempting to do.

I am not stupid. Neither are you. It is obvious that in answering these questions, you would show yourself to be a hypocrite. Have it your way. I think I have my answer now.

Lisa

 

[joebudda]

I just want to get any misunderstanding out of the way. Rather then assume how you define things, I just ask.

A Solider's purpose is defined by his/her mission. Thus, a soldier's role can be one of humanatarian aid or police action ( such as guarding infrastructure )

Are Soldiers, who are defending a Muslim holy site, guilty of making "War" for killing those who attempt to destroy it by violent means? What about killing to protect innocents?

Individuals who's actions create war are guilty of making war. Are we in a war? If we are it is because of individuals and their actions creating war.

If no one participated in war there would be no war.

And individuals choosing to act in a war creates war.

I am not trying to justify whether it is good, bad, necessary, or evil. Those are just opinions. I am focusing on the behavior and its results. And how supporting the "troops" is supporting the war.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

I always support people.

The troops are people with different opinions. The war is an expression of violence. Of course you can support the troops without supporting the war.

 

[joebudda]

I am not stupid. Neither are you. It is obvious that in answering these questions, you would show yourself to be a hypocrite. Have it your way. I think I have my answer now.

Lisa

You have exposed yourself. You have now admitted that you have attempted to shift the focus of the conversation to a topic that is irrelevant to this discussion.

I will tell you my opinion even though it has no relevance here. I don't have a problem with abortion because the fetus is not an individual, it lacks the ability to be anything other then a parasite until it can survive out side of its host. And I think that forcing individuals to sustain this parasite is wrong.

And I am against the death penalty.

Now please explain how this has any relevance in our conversation that you so adamantely claimed it is. Even if you believe it does make me a hypocrite (which I don't believe it does), how does it change the fact that to support the troops and not the war is hypocrisy? Or do you just want an excuses to say "your a hypocrite too" and then go giggle to yourself as if you accomplished something?

 

[joebudda]

I always support people.

The troops are people with different opinions. The war is an expression of violence. Of course you can support the troops without supporting the war.

Who is expressing this violence? And if you support the people expressing the violence you are then supporting the violence.

 

[NeverClever]

Individuals who's actions create war are guilty of making war. Are we in a war? If we are it is because of individuals and their actions creating war.

If no one participated in war there would be no war.

And individuals choosing to act in a war creates war.

I am not trying to justify whether it is good, bad, necessary, or evil. Those are just opinions. I am focusing on the behavior and its results. And how supporting the "troops" is supporting the war.

Are you a tax paying citizein of the United States?

 

[joebudda]

Are you a tax paying citizein of the United States?

Yes I am robed of my property under threats of punishment. How is this relevant?

 

[NeverClever]

Yes I am robed of my property under threats of punishment. How is this relevant?

Just wondering why you were feeding more money into the system that perpetuates war.

 

[Lisa0315]

You have exposed yourself. You have now admitted that you have attempted to shift the focus of the conversation to a topic that is irrelevant to this discussion.

I will tell you my opinion even though it has no relevance here. I don't have a problem with abortion because the fetus is not an individual, it lacks the ability to be anything other then a parasite until it can survive out side of its host. And I think that forcing individuals to sustain this parasite is wrong.

And I am against the death penalty.

Now please explain how this has any relevance in our conversation that you so adamantely claimed it is. Even if you believe it does make me a hypocrite (which I don't believe it does), how does it change the fact that to support the troops and not the war is hypocrisy? Or do you just want an excuses to say "your a hypocrite too" and then go giggle to yourself as if you accomplished something?

Because your premise is a logical fallacy.

If by law, it is legal for a soldier to kill a proclaimed enemy, then, that soldier had done nothing wrong and is not to blame. If by law, a mother kills her unborn child, then, that mother had not done murder.

I personally do not believe in abortion and the legal definition of when life begins is meaningless to me. I believe that child is human and precious life from the moment of conception.

However, while I can hold that OPINION, it is nothing more than an opinion and it proves nothing.

Your OPINION is that the soldiers are murdering Iraqis. However, by American law, those soldiers are doing as they are legally bound to do. They do not even have a choice as the mother does. They entered the military and have been called to active duty. They, perhaps, had a choice when they entered the military, but honestly, if no one volunteered, we would have a draft right now.

I am also against capital punishment. I am by far, more of a pacifist than you. I do not support this war, but I do support those who have been ordered to participate in it. It is not one and the same. A does not equal B just because you say that it does.

Lisa

 

[CCGirl]

There would be no war if the participants (soliders) did not follow orders and refused to kill. Do you really think that the govt woud lock up hundreds of thousands of soldiers who refused to fight an illegal war? Remember, the USA is a signatory to many international treaties that govern war. Making war on Iraq was illegal and morally wrong.

 

[JohnElias]

There would be no war if the participants (soliders) did not follow orders and refused to kill. Do you really think that the govt woud lock up hundreds of thousands of soldiers who refused to fight an illegal war? Remember, the USA is a signatory to many international treaties that govern war. Making war on Iraq was illegal and morally wrong.

This is akin to asking a whistleblower to stand up to corrupt corporate practices or asking a father to call out an oppressive nation knowing that he and his family are going to be executed if he doesn't completely succeed.

In theory, if every soldier refused to bear arms in the current war, the government would have little ability to do anything other than to agree. Be fully aware that many, if not a majority, of soldiers support their mission and follow orders. Even those willing to question and possibly defy orders recognize the futility and self-ruination of defying orders alone. With such risk and such a low likelyhood of inspiring a significant movement (courtesy of the obvious intimidation, poor communication, and the like) - you don't find the leaders you need to bring such a movement to success.

Suffice to say, it's a practical impossibility.

 

[MachZer0]

There would be no war if the participants (soliders) did not follow orders and refused to kill. Do you really think that the govt woud lock up hundreds of thousands of soldiers who refused to fight an illegal war? Remember, the USA is a signatory to many international treaties that govern war. Making war on Iraq was illegal and morally wrong.

So, referring back to the OP, is it safe to assume that you do not support the coalition troops?

 

[Psalms34]

I can quote you from Harry potter if you would like. I admit fantasy is fun, but it isn't reality.

If you believe that your perticular god intervenes yet can't not support its existence then it is superstition. Just like breaking a mirror equating to bad luck is.

Totally you missed what I said, or conveniently ignored it.

Harry Potter or the writer of that fiction is not a prophet, doesn't have a fulfilled prophecy to her name, nor tries to credential her work with prophecy. She only speaks of herself. If she were a prophet, it would probably not be 100% accurate, thus would be a false prophet so that whatever she says should be ignored.

Yet the bible contains fulfilled prophecy, and 100% accurate at that, thus the writer can be trusted with whatever they write. The writer of the bible is God, he has proclaimed that, and with 100% accurate prophecy, it is his signature, thus passages like Romans 13 concerning justice is true as well, becasue the bible has credibility due to 100% accurately fulfilled prophecy.

To over look the statistical probability of fulfilled prophecy, which in enormous, well is a terrible mistake, it's purely denying logic. It's simply not logical to overlook that, such a position is as you say, "fantasy". You point the finger, but you are not realizing that on that same hand the other three fingers are pointing right back at you. No logic... yet it's apparent, but ignored, and that is not logical.

 

[JohnElias]

So, referring back to the OP, is it safe to assume that you do not support the coalition troops?

To be fair, CCGirl as a Canadian actually only has one soldier to support or not support. She can't support the troops, as the one soldier contribution Canada has made to Coalition forces in Iraq is hardly "troops". Also it is fair to say that if he/she was derelict in his/her duties, a lot of harm could come his/her way... the whole millions of soldiers deserting at once theory doesn't exactly work.

That said, I cannot speak for her.

*please note, soldier might be a female. Before somebody sues me for gender discrimination, note the "him/her" modification.

 

[MachZer0]

To be fair, CCGirl as a Canadian actually only has one soldier to support or not support. She can't support the troops, as the one soldier contribution Canada has made to Coalition forces in Iraq is hardly "troops". Also it is fair to say that if he/she was derelict in his/her duties, a lot of harm could come his/her way... the whole millions of soldiers deserting at once theory doesn't exactly work.

That said, I cannot speak for her.

*please note, soldier might be a female. Before somebody sues me for gender discrimination, note the "him/her" modification.

So we can only support roops from our own country. Gee, I didn't know that

 

[Lisa0315]

So we can only support roops from our own country. Gee, I didn't know that

Well, to support the troops is to support the war, which makes you an accessory to murder. I suppose the world court should put all of us in jail. They should especially target the families of the soldiers.

Where is the puke smilie?

Lisa

 

[Psalms34]

Well, to support the troops is to support the war, which makes you an accessory to murder. I suppose the world court should put all of us in jail. They should especially target the families of the soldiers.

Where is the puke smilie?

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

LOL! Thanks!

 

[Psalms34]

LOL! Thanks!