Supporting The Troops Is Supporting The War

[joebudda]

I am sick of seeing all of these magnetic ribbons on everyone’s car that read “support the troops, not the war”. These people are a bunch of hypocrites. Because supporting the “troops” is supporting the war.

War is fought by individuals willing to fight a war. It is fought by individuals willing to kill others by their own actions. If these “troops” were not “supporting” the war there would be no war. If these individuals really wanted the war to end they can stop perpetuating the war by their individual actions or lack thereof.

So supporting the “troops” is supporting the war. If someone supports these individuals killing other individuals they are supporting the killing of individuals, ergo supporting the war. To attempt to justify it boils down to hypocrisy.

If I am not seeing something that shows how this conclusions is incorrect I would appreciate if someone would point out why or how.

 

[tulc]

I guess the next question would be What do you consider "supporting the troops" to consist of?
tulc(just wondering)

 

[joebudda]

I guess the next question would be "What do you consider supporting the troops?"
tulc(just wondering)

Maybe we can determine what "supporting the troops" means and how "supporting" differs when using it regarding "supporting what war".

I understand it to mean encouragement of some kind. If I am wrong in this assumption, please explain.

Because I am unable to justify them taking part in the killing of others when they willfully take part in the killing of others. We do not have a "draft" in place so the "troops" volunteer their services.

 

[JohnElias]

But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow

http://www.youtube.com/v/87yq372R4Ts&hl=en

 

[joebudda]

But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow

http://www.youtube.com/v/87yq372R4Ts&hl=en

If you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out

 

[JohnElias]

If you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out

All I'm trying to tell you is that this "don't support the troops" stuff is only going to alienate people from your ideas. The semantics is horribly offensive.

 

[joebudda]

All I'm trying to tell you is that this "don't support the troops" stuff is only going to alienate people from your ideas. The semantics is horribly offensive.

If we are all individuals, then it is the individuals and their actions that are to blame.

And in understanding this, "support the troops, not the war" is hypocritical. It is very Orwellian.

It is like saying I support the Nazis but not the killing of Jews. If you support the individuals who killed the Jews (the Nazis) with their own actions that led to the killing of Jews you are then supporting the killing of Jews.

The justification is the belief of a "greater good" through death. If we are all individuals then we have to be responsible for our own individual actions. Because the justification doesn't really exist except in the minds of those who justify it. The result is still the same, individuals controlling their actions resulting in the killing of others.

 

[Lisa0315]

Fine! I support the troops! Read into that anything you like.

Lisa

 

[joebudda]

Fine! I support the troops! Read into that anything you like.

Lisa

What do you mean when you say that?

Do you support the actions of the individuals that lead to the death of other individuals, isn't this what we would call "war"?

 

[Lisa0315]

What do you mean when you say that?

Do you support the actions of the individuals that lead to the death of other individuals which is what we would call "war"?

I support the troops in Iraq in everything except illegal acts such as rape and murder. When I say that, I am not splitting hairs and saying that a legitimate battle equates murder, nor am I saying that civilians who are killed during a bombing is murder.

I am saying that war is a nasty business and the troops are not there to kill, rape, and maim, but they are there to do a job. That job may require them to take human life, and when it is absolutely necessary, then, yes, I support them when they do that.

Lisa

 

[Autumnleaf]

Support the troops by ending the war.

 

[joebudda]

I support the troops in Iraq in everything except illegal acts such as rape and murder. When I say that, I am not splitting hairs and saying that a legitimate battle equates murder, nor am I saying that civilians who are killed during a bombing is murder.

I am saying that war is a nasty business and the troops are not there to kill, rape, and maim, but they are there to do a job. That job may require them to take human life, and when it is absolutely necessary, then, yes, I support them when they do that.

Lisa

If the individuals are not there to "kill", then what are they their to do?

And what job justifies one individuals life as expendable over the life of the individual who determines that this someones life is expendable and necessary for this job? These individuals doing their jobs actions have participated in killing of over 90,000 civilians how didn't have such an opinion to determine a better course of action.

 

[Lisa0315]

If the individuals are not there to "kill", then what are they their to do?

And what job justifies one individuals life as expendable over the life of the individual who determines that this someones life is expendable and necessary for this job? These individuals doing their jobs actions have participated in killing of over 90,000 civilians how didn't have such an opinion to determine a better course of action.

We should not be in Iraq. I do not support the war regardless of what you say. I do support any man or woman who went to Iraq as ordered especially considering that they, like the rest of America, made a choice to enter based on a lie.

They are making the best of a bad situation not of their own making. Their choice is to fight or go to prison. Which would you choose?

Lisa

 

[joebudda]

Support the troops by ending the war.

What does this mean?

Support individual life by ending the war?

Because the use of the word "troops" implies some collective concept that is being supported. A concept of a military collective of individuals. It isn't the concept that causes war it is the individual actions that do.

It is really up to the individuals who are taking part in the war to end the war.

Because what power do I have over other individuals? Individuals control themselves.

 

[Lisa0315]

What does this mean?

Support individual life by ending the war?

Because the use of the word "troops" implies some collective concept that is being supported. A concept of a military collective of individuals. It isn't the concept that causes war it is the individual actions that do.

It is really up to the individuals who are taking part in the war to end the war.

Because what power do I have over other individuals? Individuals control themselves.

That is a simplistic view. If you are in the armed services, and the government declares a war, you have no choice but to go or go to prison. Now, answer the question. WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE?

Lisa

 

[joebudda]

We should not be in Iraq. I do not support the war regardless of what you say. I do support any man or woman who went to Iraq as ordered especially considering that they, like the rest of America, made a choice to enter based on a lie.

They are making the best of a bad situation not of their own making. Their choice is to fight or go to prison. Which would you choose?

Lisa

They have the option to not participate.They are individuals who control themselves. There would be no way to imprison everyone if they decided not to participate. So it is their own making.

And I am morally against war. It is collectivist idea that removes the identity from the individual. It is nothing more then a collectivist opinion that "those individuals have less of a right to life then the ones sharing in my opinion", and then putting it into action. I wouldn't participate because my morals wouldn't allow me. I would be a hypocrite to my own values.

 

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

I don't support troops or the war. Not that I think the troops are bad people, but consciously or not, they support an organization that discriminates against Gays and Lesbians. (Not to mention the whole war aspect...but that is complicated.) Unless one is Gay or Lesbian, or friends with such, this whole issue is likely not on their top 10 list. For me, I am heterosexual but do not like to see discrimination such as this which is based out of ignorance.

If I was part of an organization that discriminated against others, I would really have to question the situation and make my exit if I could. That's just me, I'm an Idealist.

 

[joebudda]

That is a simplistic view. If you are in the armed services, and the government declares a war, you have no choice but to go or go to prison. Now, answer the question. WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE?

Lisa

It is rather complex, I have just broke it down to be understood easily, I believe. People can only control us if we allow them to.

I wouldn't participate because participating in the killing of others, which I am morally against would be a worse punishment then prison for me.

I actually believe in individual rights. And if everyone did I don't think there would be such war because individuals would choose to not partake in taking the "right to life" from other individuals.

 

[Lisa0315]

It is rather complex, I have just broke it down to be understood easily, I believe. People can only control us if we allow them to.

I wouldn't participate because participating in the killing of others, which I am morally against would be a worse punishment then prison for me.

I actually believe in individual rights. And if everyone did I don't think there would be such war because individuals would choose to not partake in taking the right to life from other individuals.

Well, since we do not live in a world of idealists like you, it is likely you will only live because someone else will give their life for yours.

Lisa

 

[Psalms34]

Soldiers are not individuals, they are units and take orders. It is not in their power to disobey orders, or they are severely punished as individuals. If it didn’t work that way, then we would have a military coup which would leave the nation vulnerable to enemies without and within. Soldiers simply follow orders, and you cannot blame them for that, not directly.