Solomon
, you are not a hypocrite or self righteous. I agree that the culture is in serious trouble. My point is that the 60 million deaths have occurred despite all of our efforts to date.
I guess the point that I was making was to set the terms of reference. It is not normally a question of the life of the fetus versus the death of the mother. The norm would be the death of the fetus versus what would ibe viewed by many as a major inconvenience.
The religious right chose to ignore and demonize the Pro-choice section of our society, and they put all of their eggs in the basket of the Republican party.
From a Canadian perspective, there is no religious right here to speak of. Any pro-life position is deemed to be 'scary'. There is nothing that even resembles a Republican party.
And on the abortion question, our national 'Catholic' leaders are world leaders in advancing its universl availability.
Would it be too much of a presumotion ot consider that such Catholics have in essence ex-communicated themselves from the Church? at any rate, the Kingihts of Columbus have pretty much chased the former Catholic prime minister Paul Martin from doing readings at mass. Of course, he thinks that he is just being faithful to Vatican II, and no amount of criticism for Pope Benedict is going to dissuade him.
I believe it was to the detriment of the culture in the US and to the cause of ending abortion.
That doesn't really make sense. In Russia, where abortionists are not demonized at all, the country is even in the throes of a massive depopulation. Women there even use abortion as a means of birth control, with nary an eyebrow raised.
America is one of the few countries in the westernized world in which the the birth rate is actually sustaining the population on its own.
It is baffling how the religious right could be blamed for abortion. What would be the more politically correct way of dealing with the problem? Say nothing do nothing, see nothing?
Or gather all the pro-lifers and go to Darfur to prove that we really are really 'pro-life' after all?
We try to use the might of the sword (aka political power) and moral outrage to counter our adversaries, and guess what? They won. What are we going to do now?
Start having our babies ourselves, maybe? As much as some people would not want us to wave our papal miters around, at least Peter the Rock is showing us canonical proof that this would be the Catholic thing to do-in theory anyways.
I don't know what we are going to do. All I know is that in Canada the law teaches us that such things are okay, and people have learned the lesson well. The religious (and not so religious) left rules here, and people here are now even using abortion for sex selection.
In Europe, without any religious right to speak of either,
the story is the same.
As much as I would love to think that there is some moral leadership on the left in this regard, I am finding very little. Whether or not a fetus is a human of mucous is a matter of personal opinion, from what I can see.
and those that view the fetus as a life chose to defer their vote, so as not to impose their opinion.
Is a fetus a human?
Is a Jew vermin?
Is a Tootu a cocroach?
In a country where majority vote decides, I would think that the very least we might do is to not abstain from putting our voices and our votes into the ring on these matters, and exercising our own sense of morality on such vital questions. If we rally think that a fetus-any fetus- is really nmore than the blob of mucous of the blood clot that modern medicine assures us it is, then is there not a moral imperative to not cast our lot in with those that think that way? If a fetus really is as human and as sacred as you and I, or a jew or a Tutu, , does not the abortion question become a gut-wrenching experience in absolute horror?
If it really is a matter of personal opinion then at the very least, such an opinion needs to be heard as vociferously as one possibly can on such an important matter. As jaded as we have become in this, even if there is no moral feeling of outrage left in us, the very least we can do when the King invites us to his Feast is to dress the part. Hypocricy or not, we can at least move our lips in rote unison and state that abortion is a moral outrage, and does not merit our support at all.
Some women here would even give there lives in a ectopic pregnancy so dear is the life of the embryo to them. The very least we who are so jaded can do to demonstrate a trickling of empathy is to move our lips and repeat the Catholic message.
Jusrt who are we trying to impress with our progressive thinking anyways?
Do we have a message board that allows us to tell eachother how righteous we are and how evil the rest of the world is, or do we actually try and think of solutions to this problem?
There is a little bit of double-speak going on. You start out by reassuring us that nobody is being labled self-righteous.
But now the charge reappears.
I gather that you are not a member of the religious right. So now that it is established that the religious left doesn't much like what Peter the Rock and On the Way have to say when they keep on starting these threads, please point me to some threads on abortions started by the lefties on the forum, and I will be more than willing to follow the lead of how the religious left might win this war.
I just really hope that the thrust of the argument will not be to go to Darfur and thereby prove that we really are not all just a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to life after all.
