Support for the death penalty

Confused-by-christianity

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You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own definitions.
The reference I used is here...
What's the Difference Between Homicide, Murder, and Manslaughter? | Stein & Markus

It states that homicide is killing, murder is when it's not legal.

I think you should take your comment back.

Do a "split sheet" on it, pro's and con's.
How many times will you stonewall the topic?

Subsequent edit:
In fact, this conversation brings me nothing of value. It is pointlessly going around in circles - a waste of time.
Stonewalling, nonsense and rhetoric.
Best I forget about you and move on...take care.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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OldWiseGuy

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I do stuff like that too - so I share the feeling. It'll be my turn to be corrected soon enough ;-)

Anyway - I'm off - take care

My parting gift to you.

Top 10 Pro & Con Arguments - Death Penalty - ProCon.org

The disproportionality of the life sentence for capital crimes is a common theme in these articles. Indeed it has virtually nothing to do with the crime it is intended to punish. Only the death penalty is proportional (read fair, just) punishment for such crimes
 
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Ken-1122

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3. Some argue that the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime. I agree, that is not the benefit.
I disagree; I believe the death penalty is a deterrent to crime in the same way prison is a deterrent to crime but at a much greater level. People spend all sorts of time and money trying to get off death row indicates to me that they prefer life in prison over the death penalty. Thus the death penalty is more of a deterrent to crime than than life in prison.
 
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Par5

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I disagree; I believe the death penalty is a deterrent to crime in the same way prison is a deterrent to crime but at a much greater level. People spend all sorts of time and money trying to get off death row indicates to me that they prefer life in prison over the death penalty. Thus the death penalty is more of a deterrent to crime than than life in prison.
I don't know about that. I can only speak for myself, but the thought of being locked up for the rest of my life, unable to have a life with my wife and family, unable to enjoy the simple pleasure of a walk in the sunshine taking in the scenery, and countless other things we take so much for granted, would make me look on death as a release.
I think incarceration is the correct punishment, and as has already been stated on this thread, capital punishment is barbaric. It should have no place in a civilized society.
 
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Whyayeman

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People spend all sorts of time and money trying to get off death row indicates to me that they prefer life in prison over the death penalty

Or they want their innocence established so that they can go free. There have been quite a few innocent prisoners released when the 'proof' against them was found wanting though the process of appeal.
 
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Whyayeman

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60% of Americans said they would prefer life in prison over execution as the most severe form of punishment in the US.

This result is mirrored in the straw vote taken on another thread here. It closed yesterday.

There is no majority for the death penalty now. So get on with it and get rid of it. You will be the better for it!
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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2. Some argue that the Death penalty is biased. Minorities and the poor are much more likely to get the death penalty. This to me is a very big justification for the death penalty. The bias is for all incarcerated, not simply death penalty. If I was poor and innocent I would definitely want the death penalty. That would open the door to all kinds of non profit services that would help me defend myself. How is life in prison a better option for someone who is innocent? Also, things like fingerprints and DNA have helped to dramatically reduce the number of innocent people in prison from just 100 years ago. Therefore every advancement made in forensics benefits the poor to far greater degree than the rich.
It only benefits the poor more because the poor have been getting screwed over far more than others. That logic makes no sense. As far as what is better life in prison or death should be left up to the individual, not you. The plain fact that the death penalty is not fairly administered and that innocent people have been on death row and probably killed is the main reason I am against the death penalty.
 
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gaara4158

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Every debate on the death penalty I have seen never presents the key benefit of the death penalty that I am aware of. When I taught forensics I noticed that many of the major discoveries in forensics were made during death penalty cases and in fact the death penalty was the prime motivator for the discovery. This is true of fingerprints and DNA and fiber analysis.

1. Some argue that the Death penalty is more expensive than life in prison, that these cases can take 25 years to finally exhaust all appeals. To me this is the major benefit of the death penalty. The death penalty provides time, resources, and volunteer labor to look for a way to prove innocence. These discoveries benefit thousands of people, not just the one on death row. I would never want the death penalty to be the cheaper alternative. No one wants the judge sentencing a person to death in order to save money.

2. Some argue that the Death penalty is biased. Minorities and the poor are much more likely to get the death penalty. This to me is a very big justification for the death penalty. The bias is for all incarcerated, not simply death penalty. If I was poor and innocent I would definitely want the death penalty. That would open the door to all kinds of non profit services that would help me defend myself. How is life in prison a better option for someone who is innocent? Also, things like fingerprints and DNA have helped to dramatically reduce the number of innocent people in prison from just 100 years ago. Therefore every advancement made in forensics benefits the poor to far greater degree than the rich.

3. Some argue that the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime. I agree, that is not the benefit. The benefit is not that it motivates criminals not to commit a crime, no the benefit is that it motivates researchers and lawyers to prove that an innocent person is innocent. This is undeniable, look at the pro bono work done because it is a "death penalty case". It is obviously a motivator for lawyers and researchers.
If you find these factors to be strong arguments in favor of the death penalty, it appears you’re conflating the primary goal of the criminal justice system with perfect forensic accuracy at all costs. If you really believe it’s better to keep an accused murderer in jail for 25 years while you meticulously — and still imperfectly — determine his guilt, than to spend those 25 years rehabilitating and periodically re-assessing his propensity to reoffend, it seems you’d rather let an innocent man be killed by the state than be needlessly rehabilitated. This suggests rather troubling priorities in your moral framework. Care to justify these priorities?
 
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Whyayeman

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'The ... benefit is that it motivates researchers and lawyers to prove that an innocent person is innocent.'

Hang on! There is no necessity to prove innocence. It is up to the prosecutor to prove guilt, and if that is not done the only verdict is 'Not Guilty'.

I thought everybody knew that.
 
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The Narrow Way

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Every debate on the death penalty I have seen never presents the key benefit of the death penalty that I am aware of. When I taught forensics I noticed that many of the major discoveries in forensics were made during death penalty cases and in fact the death penalty was the prime motivator for the discovery. This is true of fingerprints and DNA and fiber analysis.

1. Some argue that the Death penalty is more expensive than life in prison, that these cases can take 25 years to finally exhaust all appeals. To me this is the major benefit of the death penalty. The death penalty provides time, resources, and volunteer labor to look for a way to prove innocence. These discoveries benefit thousands of people, not just the one on death row. I would never want the death penalty to be the cheaper alternative. No one wants the judge sentencing a person to death in order to save money.

2. Some argue that the Death penalty is biased. Minorities and the poor are much more likely to get the death penalty. This to me is a very big justification for the death penalty. The bias is for all incarcerated, not simply death penalty. If I was poor and innocent I would definitely want the death penalty. That would open the door to all kinds of non profit services that would help me defend myself. How is life in prison a better option for someone who is innocent? Also, things like fingerprints and DNA have helped to dramatically reduce the number of innocent people in prison from just 100 years ago. Therefore every advancement made in forensics benefits the poor to far greater degree than the rich.

3. Some argue that the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime. I agree, that is not the benefit. The benefit is not that it motivates criminals not to commit a crime, no the benefit is that it motivates researchers and lawyers to prove that an innocent person is innocent. This is undeniable, look at the pro bono work done because it is a "death penalty case". It is obviously a motivator for lawyers and researchers.

I agree with your points....I have believed in the Death Penalty for 50+ years...because it is Biblical :).
 
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Par5

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I agree with your points....I have believed in the Death Penalty for 50+ years...because it is Biblical :).
So is stoning people to death, biblical. I suppose it would save on the electricity bill though!
 
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The Narrow Way

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So is stoning people to death, biblical. I suppose it would save on the electricity bill though!
Yes, it was what God told them to do....when they were under a THEOCRACY....having God as their leader. But we are no longer under a theocracy...so we don't stone people....but it is still right to have the Death Penalty as PUNISHMENT is a big deterrent to crime.
 
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Tinker Grey

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Yes, it was what God told them to do....when they were under a THEOCRACY....having God as their leader. But we are no longer under a theocracy...so we don't stone people....but it is still right to have the Death Penalty as PUNISHMENT is a big deterrent to crime.
Wrong.

The Death Penalty: Questions and Answers.

Deterrence | Death Penalty Information Center

A Clear Scientific Consensus that the Death Penalty does NOT Deter – Amnesty International USA

(PDF) https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/216548.pdf Scroll to the abstract which concludes and highlights
While issues of deterrence lie at the heart of criminal justice policy, there are important
contexts where the studies of deterrence effects have failed to provide anything close to a
scholarly consensus. A principle example of this are laws on capital punishment.
Proponents argue that such laws prevent murders because potential criminals fear such
strong punishment. Opponents argue that deterrence arguments do not apply in these
circumstances and/or that the statistical analyses suffer from grave flaws. Each side can
cite many statistical studies in support of its claims. This paper presents a methodology
by which one can integrate the various studies into a single coherent analysis. We use a
methodology generally called “model averaging” by which one takes weighted averages
of a wide set of possible models of deterrence. Our conclusion is that there is little
empirical evidence in favor of the deterrence hypothesis.
{Emphasis in the original}
 
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Whyayeman

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Yes, it was what God told them to do....when they were under a THEOCRACY....having God as their leader. But we are no longer under a theocracy...so we don't stone people....but it is still right to have the Death Penalty as PUNISHMENT is a big deterrent to crime.

I think there is a shifting of ground there. The death penalty is Biblical - and not just for murder. Wearing cotton mix socks is punishable by death in Leviticus.

There is nothing in the idea that the death penalty deters. It is just wishful thinking on the part of we law-abiding people. In countries in which the death penalty has been abolished (almost all advanced countries and almost all democracies) there has been no surge in the murder rate. For example numbers for murders in England have been remarkably steady and the murder rate has been reducing for decades.

Similarly, American States which have abolished the death penalty have not experienced markedly different murder rates afterwards.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I think there is a shifting of ground there. The death penalty is Biblical - and not just for murder. Wearing cotton mix socks is punishable by death in Leviticus.

There is nothing in the idea that the death penalty deters. It is just wishful thinking on the part of we law-abiding people. In countries in which the death penalty has been abolished (almost all advanced countries and almost all democracies) there has been no surge in the murder rate. For example numbers for murders in England have been remarkably steady and the murder rate has been reducing for decades.

Similarly, American States which have abolished the death penalty have not experienced markedly different murder rates afterwards.

Murder rates may not have increased but our prisons have become overcrowded with murderers.
 
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Desk trauma

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OldWiseGuy

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