Superiority Complex.

[Glass*Soul]

N/m

 

[Glass*Soul]

I agree that many people are perhaps more Christ-like than people who say they are Christians. Also, there are many people that are perhaps more spiritually aware than someone who was raised Christian and never questioned it.

But this is where the counter-intuitive doctrine of "eternal life by faith not works" comes in. There are plenty of people striving to be Christ-like, even if they are doing it unknowingly and simply want to be the best person they can be, but if they don't have the faith part then the works are null. (In terms of getting to heaven...apparently, although who am I to judge who goes to heaven? I'm just passing on what is generally regarded as Christian ideology..even if I don't fully agree with it).

The parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew seems to contradict this idea.

 

[ephraimanesti]

The more usual meaning is "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ".

eudaimonia,

Mark

MY BROTHER,

A belief not acted upon is meaningless. As St. James writes, "SHOW ME YOUR FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS, AND I WILL SHOW YOU MY FAITH BY WHAT I DO. YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ONE GOD. GOOD! EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE THAT--AND SHUDDER." (James 2:18b-19)

So perhaps we can take your "definition" and complete it--i.e., "A Christian is one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ and, through the process of acting on that belief, becomes Christ-like."

Or, as St. Paul puts it, "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, FOR AS MANY OF YOU AS HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST, HAVE PUT ON CHRIST." (Galatians 3:26)

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

No part of Christianity is about being perfect. But I don't think that's what E is saying. He is saying to be Christ-like. That is not equivalent to BEING Christ, it is equivalent to STRIVING to be like Christ.

MY DEAR FRIENDS,

LRLRL is correct. Christ, of course, was the only perfect Man who ever walked this planet. The Christ-likeness, as said above, is in the struggle. The goal of a Christian's struggle is to become the image of his Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ. God Himself laid this goal upon us, "Be ye therefore perfect as I am perfect." We are, and Orthodox terms, seeking to become an icon, of The Icon, of God.

God judges the Heart and does not keep some kind of tally sheet keeping score of how many sins we commit. In our hearts, it is quite possible to become perfect in our Love as God is perfect even though our carnal man continues to stumble. Human beings are weak and sinful children and although sins will decrease dramatically in a Christian with the Power and Guidance of the Holy Spirit, they will continue to occur from time to time in most of us up until our death. The perfection lies in our hatred of them and our ongoing struggle to be free of anything which does not glorify our Abba and give Him pleasure.

Christlikeness is in the desire--in the struggle--in the rising up after stumbling--in the repentance--in the prayers for forgiveness and renewed spiritual strength to continue the battle.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

When they say that this is a Christian website, what does that mean?

i would hope it means that its ultimate purpose is to glorify God.

ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

What's more, the Bible barely mentions the term "Christian", and never gives the definition ephraim presents here.
Looks like we can pretty much bag the entire reformation if we adhere to ephraimanesti's definition!

MY DEAR SISTER,

The only thing worse than a Christian pontificating on what it means to be an atheist is a nonbeliever pontificating on what it means to be a Christian.

ephraim

 

[Glass*Soul]

i would hope it means that its ultimate purpose is to glorify God.

ephraim

How does one do that?

 

[ephraimanesti]

How does one do that?

MY BROTHER,

By the same means His Son did--SURRENDER SO COMPLETELY TO GOD'S WILL THAT HE BECOMES THE TOTALITY OF YOUR LIFE AND, AS A CONSEQUENCE, YOU BECOME A DISTORTIONLESS MIRROR OF HIS GLORY.

MAY IT INCREASINGLY BE SO!

ephraim

 

[Glass*Soul]

MY BROTHER,

By the same means His Son did--SURRENDER SO COMPLETELY TO GOD'S WILL THAT HE BECOMES THE TOTALITY OF YOUR LIFE AND, AS A CONSEQUENCE, YOU BECOME A DISTORTIONLESS MIRROR OF HIS GLORY.

MAY IT INCREASINGLY BE SO!

ephraim

What does that look like?

 

[Dragons87]

What does that look like?

Bright.

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

So... which one is it?

Are only those who are demonstrably "Christ-like" by means of the Holy Spirit Real Christians - or is there no discernible difference between the Saved and the Unsaved except for their beliefs concerning deity?

 

[ephraimanesti]

What does that look like?

Like Jesus.

ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

So... which one is it?

Are only those who are demonstrably "Christ-like" by means of the Holy Spirit Real Christians - or is there no discernible difference between the Saved and the Unsaved except for their beliefs concerning deity?

MY SISTER,

The difference is between those who do what they, through their faulty human reason, believe to be "good" because it makes them feel good about themselves,

And those who do what God has labeled "GOOD" because they know doing so pleases Abba.

The main difference, i believe, is in the extent of the sacrificing of self interest which is involved--as exemplified by Jesus' ultimate sacrifice for Abba on Calvary.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Key]

What do you think of the following statement. It is a quote from a blog where they are discussing whether or not people should quote scripture in a moral debate. One person said that Christians shouldn't quote scripture when debating with non-Christians because it would be no different than quoting Dr.Seuss. Then someone agrees and says this:


"Plus the unbeliever can't understand the Scripture like the believer does since the unbeliever does not have the Spirit of God to illumine him."

This kind of sentence is common in Christian philosophy. I find it makes any unbeliever automatically inferior. It irritates me.

I'd feel better about entertaining a non-believers grasp on scripture if they did not constantly toss out hackneyed interpretations, which is why citing scripture to them is equally so a futile endeavor.

 

[ephraimanesti]

I'd feel better about entertaining a non-believers grasp on scripture if they did not constantly toss out hackneyed interpretations, which is why citing scripture to them is equally so a futile endeavor.

MY FRIEND,

Without the Holy Spirit to guide and interpret, the Bible is pretty much written in a foreign language--especially for those with an agenda of debunking God by attempting to twist His written Word to their own ends.

It is a tragedy that Abba's Love Letter to His children should be ridiculed and defiled in this way.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[b&wpac4]

I'd feel better about entertaining a non-believers grasp on scripture if they did not constantly toss out hackneyed interpretations, which is why citing scripture to them is equally so a futile endeavor.

You know...

I feel the same way when Christians toss out their interpretations of the Jewish Bible.

Just saying.

 

[Key]

You know...

I feel the same way when Christians toss out their interpretations of the Jewish Bible.

Just saying.

That is correct, as there are parts of the OT that only pertain to the Jews, and as a gentile following Jesus, are totally inconsequential to me. Those parts only have meaning to Messianic Jews.

The NT touches on that quite a bit.

 

[b&wpac4]

That is correct, as there are parts of the OT that only pertain to the Jews, and as a gentile following Jesus, are totally inconsequential to me. Those parts only have meaning to Messianic Jews.

The NT touches on that quite a bit.

I like your view, and I don't imagine you would ever engage in what I am speaking about, so that's awesome.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

MY FRIEND,

Without the Holy Spirit to guide and interpret, the Bible is pretty much written in a foreign language--especially for those with an agenda of debunking God by attempting to twist His written Word to their own ends.

It is a tragedy that Abba's Love Letter to His children should be ridiculed and defiled in this way.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

Doesn't everyone "twist" the Bible to some degree though? I mean, it requires interpretation for a lot of things hence why half the sections on this website consist of Christians debating and pondering the meaning of certain verses.

Lets say Bob and Joe read the verse that says "Love your neighbour as yourself". Lets say Bob takes that to mean "Love everyone on Earth because we are all neighbours in the global community". Joe, on the other hand, INTERPRETS it as "Love the person that owns property beside you."

Who is correct? The words themselves do not hold the answer as to who is correct. Its ambiguous. It requires interpretation. And no doubt you think your interpretation is correct. And no doubt I think my interpretation is correct. And no doubt Bob thinks his is correct, and Joe thinks his is correct.

 

[Josiah14]

What do you think of the following statement. It is a quote from a blog where they are discussing whether or not people should quote scripture in a moral debate. One person said that Christians shouldn't quote scripture when debating with non-Christians because it would be no different than quoting Dr.Seuss. Then someone agrees and says this:


"Plus the unbeliever can't understand the Scripture like the believer does since the unbeliever does not have the Spirit of God to illumine him."

This kind of sentence is common in Christian philosophy. I find it makes any unbeliever automatically inferior. It irritates me.

What do people think of the comment and what do people think of using scripture in moral debate?

(If you want to see the whole discussion here's the link: http://www.revelife.com/722660966/in-moral-debate-should-we-quote-scripture/)

This is a long thread already, so I'm just going to reply to the OP.

I would say that, in a dialogue with a non-Christian, it may be appropriate to quote or summarize Scripture without referencing it. As the Bible holds no place of authority in the mind of someone who is practicing a Judeo-Christian religion, it would make no sense to cite it as a reputable source or authority. The Bible, does, however, contain a lot of wisdom that can and should be used when one is engaged in dialogue. What's for certain here, is that scripture should almost certainly be utilized in a way such that the listener does not become aware of the fact that you are quoting something. In other words, draw from the wisdom of the Scriptures, but don't go about it like a philosopher quoting Aristotle and trying to sound profound. Just be down to earth, practical, and speak from your own experience.

As far as the interpretation of the Bible and the Grace of the Holy Spirit, I think it is important to bear in mind that God is not restricted by time or the Church. As such, theoretically, God could choose to apply Grace from the person's baptism which may not have happened yet in order to bring that person to an understanding of the Scriptures that would benefit the person spiritually. Alternatively, God could also simply choose to work outside the confines of the Church in order to reach someone. After all, if God only granted the Spirit to those already within the Church, then would anybody be capable of finding the Church to begin with? It is ultimately God who reveales the Truth to us.

I should suppliment these statements I just made with my conviction that the Scripture is not for private, individual interpretation, but must be interpreted within the context of the Holy, Apostolic, Orthodox, and Catholic Church's experience of God, concerning which the Fathers of the Church, from the Apostles to the the most recent of Saints (e.g. St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco) have a shared consensus about. It is ultimately the Holy Spirit which reveals to a person that the Church's understanding is True, as it is the Spirit of God that was experienced by those who have been teachers and defenders and practitioners of the Faith through the ages.