Superiority Complex.

[Catherineanne]

Put me down as a "I heard the word and rejected the offer", my brain is a selfish brain and will not allow anyone else in my head.

I don't think so, R.

Not being able to abandon personal integrity is not the same thing as rejecting an offer. If this is not an offer that you recognise, you would be daft to accept it.

An atheist who does not believe in God can no more be expected to choose to believe all by himself, than I can be expected to choose to respond to emails offering me $750,000 from some Nigerian bank. The credibility is about the same, I would imagine.

You cannot be damned to eternity for not believing, when belief is always by Grace. If you have not heard from God as yet, then you can relax, and not worry one bit. God does not send dodgy emails; he makes himself very clear, in his own way and in his own time.

Some Christians will not like me saying this one bit, but before they start to get huffy, they need to answer this question: by whose agency do you believe; by the Grace of God, or by your own volition?

The answer is ALWAYS, by the Grace of God, first, second and third.

"God does not like you if you don't bow down to him".

God loves everyone equally, regardless of who they are or what they have done. I have been a Christian all my life. He does not love me more than he loves you, or anyone else. His love is limitless and unconditional for everyone.

He certainly likes it when we bow to his sovereignty, but he loves us just the same whether we do or not.

 

[razeontherock]

Great post, C! but applying a bit of male-type logic to the last phrase:

He certainly likes it when we bow to his sovereignty, but he loves us just the same whether we do or not.

"Bowing down to His sovereignty" then becomes more about US, for our own good, than anything else. This is the light bulb that hasn't gone off for Riski yet.

 

[Catherineanne]

Great post, C! but applying a bit of male-type logic to the last phrase:

"Bowing down to His sovereignty" then becomes more about US, for our own good, than anything else. This is the light bulb that hasn't gone off for Riski yet.

You are right; thanks for the male logic. It is certainly more for our own good than the Lord's. I kind of knew that, theoretically, but didn't fully appreciate what it means personally.

Your words speak from God to me; when he is pleased by what we do, it is because he sees that our action is spiritually beneficial to us.

Thanks, R.

 

[Riski]

I am sorry to say you are both living in a dream world of your own making, you want there to be a God so for you there is a God.

 

[Dragons87]

I am sorry to say you are both living in a dream world of your own making, you want there to be a God so for you there is a God.

That statement works both ways. Is there no God because you refuse to believe there is one?

 

[JohnCR]

MY DEAR BROTHER,

The only answer i can give is that i have not answer. i have my personal opinions of the subject, but forgive me if i don't feel free to speculate in this particular Forum as i could quite easily be wrong.

We know many--but not all--things about our Abba, among which are "God is love", "God is merciful", and "God judges men by their hearts." What all that will look like when the End comes, i cannot speak to authoritatively--so had better not speak on at all.

i do know, however, that those who did not have an opportunity to hear the Gospel in their lifetimes will be judged by God by a different criteria than those who have heard the Gospel while on earth and chosed to ignore or reject it.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

THANK YOU! I'm glad someone is willing to admit they have not been endowed with all of life's answers.

 

[razeontherock]

when he is pleased by what we do, it is because he sees that our action is spiritually beneficial to us.

Spiritually, yes; but in other ways too. For example, he gives us power to get wealth. People don't like that for many different reasons, but it's just one example of something very non-Spiritual we can do that pleases Him. Complicates the matter too, because most people then proceed directly to NOT pleasing Him ...

 

[ephraimanesti]

From what I have read in your posts I can assure you that your personal opinions on the subject would most definitely be wrong.

"God does not like you if you don't bow down to him".

I suppose the same goes for those who rejected Allah and all of the other Gods.

Put me down as a "I heard the word and rejected the offer", my brain is a selfish brain and will not allow anyone else in my head.

DEAR ABBA,

You have commanded us through your written Word and have demonstrated through the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Your Beloved Son--Your Manifest Word--that we are to Love ALL of Your beloved and most highly treasured children to the exact same extent and with the exact same totality as You do, because even those who rebel and sneer at Your very existence and manifest characteristics, and at the fumbling efforts at obedience to Your Commandments those attempting to follow Your Will show forth, were created in your Image and possess the potential to live lives exhibiting your Likeness. Their eternal and boundless value to You, and Your all-encompassing and glorious Love for them, is shown by the awe-inspiring fact Our Lord willingly drank to the dregs the Cup of the Cross for unbelievers and those who chose to spit upon His Love, as well as those who have placed their Hope in You through Him.

i understand and accept this Holy Mandate, Lord, but struggle nonetheless. It is relatively easy, Lord, to force myself to write or even speak words of love, tolerance, forgiveness, concern, and compassion, Lord, in the face of just about everything. However, it is my inner feelings which trouble me--feelings in sharp contrast to the words i dutifully--according to, and based upon, Your expressed Will--proclaim. LORD HAVE MERCY!

You have stated, Lord, that out of the Heart the TRUE feelings of a man flow forth, and i confess that in many instances the hidden words and feelings in my Heart are not congruent with the words i choose to express and which can be seen and heard by others.

i ask, Abba, that you heal my Heart so that this hypocritical evil--this duality-- which i appear unable to control will, through the Power of Your indwelling Holy Spirit, become unified and congruent, coming to match, support, and garnish that which i am, presently to only a uncertain wavering extent, able to govern and manipulate--at least IN APPEARANCE. May the outcome of your Intervention in my Heart be the achievement of the end result You so strongly desire: MY COMPLETE, TOTAL, AND UNWAVERING LOVE OF ALL YOUR CHILDREN--without judgment or exception.

"CLEANSE ME O LORD, AND RENEW A RIGHT SPIRIT WITHIN ME!"

In the most Blessed Name of my Lord, God, Savior, and Brother Jesus Christ, AMEN!

harbison

 

[Harry3142]

Scripture wasn't written so that only a privileged few could understand it. It was written so that anyone who chose to read it could comprehend its message, irregardless of their own belief system.

In my own life I have seen this tactic used even on Christians. There are some sects which teach their members, as well as those whom they have 'targetted' as future members, that Scripture must be explained to them by the leaders of that sect, and therefore the laity are not to read the Holy Bible. Instead, they are to rely on their leadership to tell them what it really says through their pamphlets and publications.

I was 'targetted' myself circa 1970 by one of these sects. The person who wanted me to take a printed 'Bible study' (which was nothing more than a crude manipulative device) said this, "Don't read any verses except the one that's listed as the answer to the question. If it's a 1/2 verse, don't even read the other half of that verse. It might confuse you."

 

[Riski]

DEAR ABBA,

You have commanded us through your written Word and have demonstrated through the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Your Beloved Son--Your Manifest Word--that we are to Love ALL of Your beloved and most highly treasured children to the exact same extent and with the exact same totality as You do, because even those who rebel and sneer at Your very existence and manifest characteristics, and at the fumbling efforts at obedience to Your Commandments those attempting to follow Your Will show forth, were created in your Image and possess the potential to live lives exhibiting your Likeness. Their eternal and boundless value to You, and Your all-encompassing and glorious Love for them, is shown by the awe-inspiring fact Our Lord willingly drank to the dregs the Cup of the Cross for unbelievers and those who chose to spit upon His Love, as well as those who have placed their Hope in You through Him.

i understand and accept this Holy Mandate, Lord, but struggle nonetheless. It is relatively easy, Lord, to force myself to write or even speak words of love, tolerance, forgiveness, concern, and compassion, Lord, in the face of just about everything. However, it is my inner feelings which trouble me--feelings in sharp contrast to the words i dutifully--according to, and based upon, Your expressed Will--proclaim. LORD HAVE MERCY!

You have stated, Lord, that out of the Heart the TRUE feelings of a man flow forth, and i confess that in many instances the hidden words and feelings in my Heart are not congruent with the words i choose to express and which can be seen and heard by others.

i ask, Abba, that you heal my Heart so that this hypocritical evil--this duality-- which i appear unable to control will, through the Power of Your indwelling Holy Spirit, become unified and congruent, coming to match, support, and garnish that which i am, presently to only a uncertain wavering extent, able to govern and manipulate--at least IN APPEARANCE. May the outcome of your Intervention in my Heart be the achievement of the end result You so strongly desire: MY COMPLETE, TOTAL, AND UNWAVERING LOVE OF ALL YOUR CHILDREN--without judgment or exception.

"CLEANSE ME O LORD, AND RENEW A RIGHT SPIRIT WITHIN ME!"

In the most Blessed Name of my Lord, God, Savior, and Brother Jesus Christ, AMEN!

harbison

NO THANK YOU.

 

[Catherineanne]

I am sorry to say you are both living in a dream world of your own making, you want there to be a God so for you there is a God.

Thank you.

And here is your comment, bounced right back at you, with about as much or as little meaning; you don't want there to be a God, so for you there is no God.

Enjoy.

 

[Catherineanne]

Spiritually, yes; but in other ways too. For example, he gives us power to get wealth.

Not in my experience. Treasure, yes; wealth, not so much. I am glad your experience is different.

 

[Catherineanne]

Scripture wasn't written so that only a privileged few could understand it. It was written so that anyone who chose to read it could comprehend its message, irregardless of their own belief system.

In my own life I have seen this tactic used even on Christians. There are some sects which teach their members, as well as those whom they have 'targetted' as future members, that Scripture must be explained to them by the leaders of that sect, and therefore the laity are not to read the Holy Bible. Instead, they are to rely on their leadership to tell them what it really says through their pamphlets and publications.

I was 'targetted' myself circa 1970 by one of these sects. The person who wanted me to take a printed 'Bible study' (which was nothing more than a crude manipulative device) said this, "Don't read any verses except the one that's listed as the answer to the question. If it's a 1/2 verse, don't even read the other half of that verse. It might confuse you."

It sounds as if you have had some really bad experiences, H.

You are right in what you say; Scripture is a whole, not a collection of little bits that create a personal manifesto for a particular sect.

Taking select verses from Scripture and creating a theology from them is about as meaningless as pulling a few bricks out of Hampton Court Palace, and then trying to reproduce the whole building. Whatever is created as a result is highly unlikely to bear any ressemblance to the authentic whole.

 

[ephraimanesti]

THANK YOU! I'm glad someone is willing to admit they have not been endowed with all of life's answers.

MY BROTHER,

Well, you know it used to bother me when i didn't have all the answers necessary to impress others--not to mention myself.

Now, however, most of the time i feel at peace with my humanly ignorance--kind of like David when he wrote Psalm 131--

"My heart is not proud, O Lord,
my eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
or things too wonderful for me.
But I have stilled and quieted my soul;
like a weaned child with its mother,
like a weaned child is my soul within me." (Psalm 131:1-2)

If i need to know, i will be told.

ephraim

 

[razeontherock]

Yep, plenty of us here express that. And it even seems that EO teaches it - who knew?!? Goes right with w/ Harry said, too ...

 

[b&wpac4]

I do not believe that I expressed my views as accurately as I would have liked and some assumptions about what I meant were made. Just to clarify:

I do not believe we do not need God. I do not believe that we are able to accomplish everything without God. I do not believe that I do not need God's help with many things.

 

[xDenax]

MY BROTHER,
The Gentiles just got lucky because the Jews didn't recognize their Messiah when He incarnated.

What do you mean by this statement?

 

[ephraimanesti]

What do you mean by this statement?

MY DEAR SISTER,

As Paul explains, the refusal of the Jews to accept their Messiah and put their faith in Him, led to the Gospel being preached to the Gentiles, opening up the way to Salvation for all--

"Then Paul and Barnabas answered them [the Jews] boldly: 'We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us: 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'(Isaiah 49:6) " (Acts 13:46-47)

With a most blessed consequence for us Gentiles--

"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as it were by works. They stumbled over the 'stumbling stone.' As it is written: 'See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in Him will never be put to shame.' " (Romans 9:30-33

This, of course, fulfills Hosea's prophecy,

"I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God' " (Hosea 2:23)

He is indeed!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[b&wpac4]

"I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God' " (Hosea 2:23)

...it's speaking of the Northern Kingdom, not gentiles. Granted, I'd have to start talking about context again, but the entire thing in Hosea is that the Northern Kingdom is unfaithful to God and will be carried away. His children are named, get this, "Not my loved one" and "Not my people". This is a great prophecy about the restoration of the Northern Kingdom, which has not occurred.

 

[xDenax]

As Paul explains, the refusal of the Jews to accept their Messiah and put their faith in Him, led to the Gospel being preached to the Gentiles, opening up the way to Salvation for all

With a most blessed consequence for us Gentiles

So you believe that if the Jews had just accepted Jesus in the first place then all the Non-Jews would be ignored by God and sent to hell???