Superiority Complex.

[sentipente]

This is only true if the person who chooses to believe in Jesus thinks they are 100% right. 100% conviction leads to intolerance in my experience. If you have a grey-area approach and recognize the fact that other belief systems may be valid, legitimate, possible or beneficial then it allows you to see the others perspective rather than closing your ears and yelling, "I'm right! you're wrong! I'm right! you're wrong!"

I don't think my decision is any greater than yours, in fact it may not even be objectively true. Decision does not lead to superiority, does it?

They only have to believe that salvation only comes through the decision to accept. If salvation does not depend on acceptance then the decision to accept is just another personal act.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

The problem is, the vocal majority is not presenting a particularly good image of our faith, and the humble minority is seeking not to be noticed, and succeeding.

Which is, of course, what they are supposed to do.

So, if you believe this and follow this, how does evangelism fit into your perspective?

Or maybe you aren't a "true" Christian?

This highlights the dilemma that is present in "religion". When I say religion I mean labelling and categorizing someone based on BELIEF and PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. To try and categorize someone means judging them based on something you don't know (ie. what's in their head).

This whole business of "fake" verses "true" Christians is really difficult to sort out and actually brings about a superiority complex of its own, ironically in this very discussion.

Just for arguments sake, if I say Catherineanne is a "fake" Christian that implies that I am a "true" Christian and therefore "superior" to her. Its exactly the same situation as a Christian thinking they're superior to a Non-Christian. Except this time its interfaith.

So really, this thread is just brilliantly and ironically proving my point from my original post.

Also, to be a Christian DOES NOT mean to BE Christ-like. That would mean that NO ONE is a Christian because EVERYONE makes mistakes.

In fact, can't someone "strive to be Christ-like" in the way they live and act towards others without actually having FAITH in Christ?

 

[sentipente]

The problem is that Jesus taught about saving the world but Christians talk about saving individuals. It is that individualist approach that leads to pride. If you know, as Jesus taught, that the entire race was saved, there is no place for pride.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

MY BROTHER,

Absolutely not! "Fake" christians are, by their heinous actions and works, crucifying our Lord all over again and heaping disdain and ridicule upon Him every bit as horrible as what was done to Him by the Romans. i believe that the majority of atheists are so because of their interactions with those purporting to be "christians."

These poseurs are, indeed, being confronted by those truly seeking to follow our Lord as His disciples, and i see--at least in the Churches i visit or attend--a wave of cleansing occurring which hopefully will bear good fruit in the future.

What if another Christian claimed that YOU were one of these so called poseur, "fake" Christians and you thought that THEY were a fake Christian?

How could two Christians, drawing their inspiration from the same source, reconcile these two judgements? Who is the fake one and who is following God in the true way?

Its a pointless label to say someone is fake or not because you could be the fake and they could be the real. If you can't consider that as a possibility then you must have a superiority complex, right?

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

The problem is that Jesus taught about saving the world but Christians talk about saving individuals. It is that individualist approach that leads to pride. If you know, as Jesus taught, that the entire race was saved, there is no place for pride.

This, sir, is brilliant. Never thought of it that way before. So what is evangelism then? How do you save the world without saving the individuals first? Is it possible bake a cake without adding the parts individually...after all you can't just one day have a cake come out of the oven...each particle of flour, each egg, each grain of sugar must be added.

 

[sentipente]

Interesting comment.

You may not be familiar with the concept of the Dark Night of the Soul. I can assure you that those who have experienced this, are not likely to feel superior to anyone at all.

Here is the blessed Isaac again.



Experience of abandonment - St Isaac of Nineveh and Syrian Mysticism / - Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev

Feeling abandoned does not mean one does not feel superior to others who did not make the decision that caused this feeling of abandonment. I recall the story of a woman who was asked why she endured her drunken husband's ill treatment with such grace. She replied that she tried to make his life on earth as comfortable as she could because he would not be having a good time of things in the after life.

 

[sentipente]

A Christian, or indeed anyone, who does show such a complex (myself included) clearly has room for improvement.

Aren't you being a bit presumptuous to assume that improvement needs room?

 

[sentipente]

This, sir, is brilliant. Never thought of it that way before. So what is evangelism then? How do you save the world without saving the individuals first? Is it possible bake a cake without adding the parts individually...after all you can't just one day have a cake come out of the oven...each particle of flour, each egg, each grain of sugar must be added.

But a cake is a man-made entity. Think of water. You don't sweeten water by sweetening hydrogen and oxygen separately. You simply sweeten the water. You don't get a healthy body by bringing together a collection of healthy body parts. You can't build a natural entity one part at a time. That only works with machines.

 

[Catherineanne]

So, if you believe this and follow this, how does evangelism fit into your perspective?

I don't bother with evangelism. If anyone wants to ask me about my faith, I am happy enough to talk to them about it, but it is for the Holy Spirit to convict souls, not me.

My calling is to live the life I have been given, in a way which obeys God and his will for my life. Once I have my own sins and my own life sorted out, then I can start to interfere in other people's. Meanwhile, if my life is not right, then no amount of evangelising from me will make a jot of difference to anyone.

 

[Catherineanne]

Feeling abandoned does not mean one does not feel superior to others who did not make the decision that caused this feeling of abandonment. I recall the story of a woman who was asked why she endured her drunken husband's ill treatment with such grace. She replied that she tried to make his life on earth as comfortable as she could because he would not be having a good time of things in the after life.

Well, I dare say there is an exception to every rule.

 

[sentipente]

I don't bother with evangelism. If anyone wants to ask me about my faith, I am happy enough to talk to them about it, but it is for the Holy Spirit to convict souls, not me.

My calling is to live the life I have been given, in a way which obeys God and his will for my life. Once I have my own sins and my own life sorted out, then I can start to interfere in other people's. Meanwhile, if my life is not right, then no amount of evangelising from me will make a jot of difference to anyone.

I could not agree more.

 

[Dragons87]

I don't bother with evangelism. If anyone wants to ask me about my faith, I am happy enough to talk to them about it, but it is for the Holy Spirit to convict souls, not me.

My calling is to live the life I have been given, in a way which obeys God and his will for my life. Once I have my own sins and my own life sorted out, then I can start to interfere in other people's. Meanwhile, if my life is not right, then no amount of evangelising from me will make a jot of difference to anyone.

That is most interesting. What do you do to obey this?:

"Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.'"

Aren't you being a bit presumptuous to assume that improvement needs room?

How do you mean?

 

[razeontherock]

Hmmmm... so if you were faced with a virtually invincible totalitarian regime, you'd join the Party and nod agreement to the Extermination Camps, rather than siding with the doomed resistance?
What good is a continued existence if it flies directly in the face of everything you hold to be true and worthwhile?
IMO, it's better to go down fighting for the right thing than to destroy yourself and turn into the very thing you despise.

While your point is certainly valid, it only holds true in the natural sense, with no application whatsoever to the actual topic at hand.

 

[razeontherock]

Christian does not mean Christ like. Sad but true.

Christian means follower of Christ, however imperfect. We certainly seek to become more like Christ every day, but some of us start from a very, very long distance, and cannot by any stretch of the imagination be called Christ like. Not yet.

Therefore, red and bold notwithstanding, this post is not correct. Christians are indeed capable of hurting one another, and of hurting unbelievers. We are not at all immune to the sins of gloating, judging, condemning and willfully causing pain to others.

I am sorry that this is the case, but indeed it is.

This much I agree w/ 100%. The rest of what you were preaching for several pages beforehand is the exact same Anglican Church I was raised in and rejected at the ripe old age of 4, because I could see it was powerless, and remains so to this day. Just like a car battery with only one cable attached.

You preach a different Gospel, not found in Scripture. Particularly the part about Christ being the word, not the Bible. This is a false separation! And probably enough for me to speak on the subject. Recognize that one small flaw, and the rest fixes itself; it just takes time.

 

[sentipente]

not[/I] the Bible. This is a false separation! And probably enough for me to speak on the subject. Recognize that one small flaw, and the rest fixes itself; it just takes time.

The Bible never claims to be the Word. In the beginning was the Word and the Bible has not been here from the beginning.

 

[razeontherock]

in discussions with atheists/agnostics regarding the reality of God, the issues which are usually raised are usually all about evils perpetrated in His name by those claiming to be Christians,

In "real life" I have found that to be true. Here, in this forum? Nope. I have yet to find an unbeliever on CF with anything close to an accurate concept of the message the Bible teaches. (I make an exception for WW, whom I can't possibly consider to be an unbeliever)

 

[razeontherock]

If you say so...but there are 4 other definitions listed there as well, for thoroughness.

Truly, if someone claims to be a christian then they should be acting christ-like...not like a group of harping, screaming, nagging, bigoted jerks.

Not saying all christians do that...but enough of 'em to make like a bit unpleasant.

You thought being a mod was bad, were you ever at the business meeting for a large Church in financial trouble?

 

[razeontherock]

yeah...thanks...I'd already looked those up myself...didn't really answer the question though did it.

Now this is a riot

C entered this thread arguing w/ E, saying Scripture isn't enough to answer questions, especially w/ unbelievers. The she proves her own point!!

And my point is we're all human, with a long way to go. Complete with blind spots.
But Gwen's post was in specific context of what "Christian" means, and C hit the nail on the head: becoming Christlike is a continuum not an absolute in this lifetime for any of us.

"The creature is subjected to Hope." A most uncomfortable position ...

 

[razeontherock]

Now that is very strange, I would have put money on you not writing that, I thought that even you would know better than to write that even though you might think it,

(Referring to a most excellent post by e that included the notoriously offensive "Way, the Truth, and the Life" statement.)

It must be, in with religion and out with common sense.

With all due respect, you head to unzip your head to let your brain fall out before you could possibly write that. I hope you find it before you step on it, you'll probably need it again sometime.

 

[razeontherock]

They only have to believe that salvation only comes through the decision to accept. If salvation does not depend on acceptance then the decision to accept is just another personal act.

Your status as seeker allows your mistake here. "Comes through the decision to accept?" We worship our brain almighty?

No, it's Salvation BY Grace - - through Faith. MAJOR difference! Your quest? Find out what that difference is between Faith (once delivered to the Saints) and "the decision to accept." (Whatever that means to you)

EDIT: this post was written under the (apparently false) assumption that the seeker icon meant exactly that: a seeker.

Sentipente, is that how you see yourself? Drawn to Christianity but not yet having come to the saving knowledge of our Lord Christ Jesus? I think we need an icon for that, as it's distinct from an atheist or agnostic. Apparently on CF it's intended to signify a believer who hasn't found a home Church, so maybe the only thing you're really seeking is denominationalism or something. If I thought you were a believer I would never have written this post this way. (Which might pertain to a few older posts too)

Please forgive my oversight; clarify, and I'll abide accordingly.