Suicide

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Opinions? I'm quite intent on hearing what people think of the subject because, and I don't believe I'm blowing this out of proportion, it seems the constitutions of what leads people to suicide can be both traumatic and subtle. So: what do you think?

 

[Washington]

Opinions? I'm quite intent on hearing what people think of the subject because, and I don't believe I'm blowing this out of proportion, it seems the constitutions of what leads people to suicide can be both traumatic and subtle. So: what do you think?

I agree.

 

[peter22]

Opinions? I'm quite intent on hearing what people think of the subject because, and I don't believe I'm blowing this out of proportion, it seems the constitutions of what leads people to suicide can be both traumatic and subtle. So: what do you think?

I think teens are often morbidly obsessed with suicide because they lack life experience to realise that their experiences aren't wholly unique or particularly crushing.
"Oh woe is me, the girl I like doesn't like me...life is over." etc.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

While suicide is by its nature a very traumatic and depressing phenomenon, I nonetheless believe that a person's right to their own life is the most fundamental human right. This includes the right to die how and when they choose.

Out of interest, does anyone have any arguments against suicide?

 

[keith99]

While suicide is by its nature a very traumatic and depressing phenomenon, I nonetheless believe that a person's right to their own life is the most fundamental human right. This includes the right to die how and when they choose.

Out of interest, does anyone have any arguments against suicide?

Suicide or the threat of suicide is often used to manipulate others. They'll all be sorry when I'm gone! I'd argue against that form just as I'd argue against other ways of trying to hurt others.

I see your point, it is a dangerous thing if society says we will not allow any escape, even death. Yet I also realize many if not most suicides are something wanted today, but if not tried or if survived no tdesired tomorrow.

Perhaps a waiting period? Say yes now, say yes in 3 and 7 days then OK?

I do want it protected as it is all too possible these days for one to end in pain with years of 'live' remaining, a prospect all too real for me.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Suicide or the threat of suicide is often used to manipulate others. They'll all be sorry when I'm gone! I'd argue against that form just as I'd argue against other ways of trying to hurt others.

I disagree that most threats of suicide are mere bluffs. More often than not, even casual or jocular mentions of suicide can be indicative of suicidal thought.

I see your point, it is a dangerous thing if society says we will not allow any escape, even death.

I'm not saying it's dangerous. Just traumatic and depressing.

Yet I also realize many if not most suicides are something wanted today, but if not tried or if survived no tdesired tomorrow.

Perhaps a waiting period? Say yes now, say yes in 3 and 7 days then OK?

I do want it protected as it is all too possible these days for one to end in pain with years of 'live' remaining, a prospect all too real for me.

Agreed. We are water held in place by a protien sac, controlled by hormones and synaptic nets. What we want now may not be what we want later. I have been suicidal in the past, yet I am not suicidal now.
But I wonder if that's at all relevant? Do we have some duty or obligation to wait it out, to see if our feelings are more than just brief impulses? If I want to die now, why shouldn't I?

 

[jayem]

If I want to die now, why shouldn't I?

Do you not have any family or friends who would miss you? Would your death truly be of no account to anyone else? You may well have tangible obligations to other people. Suppose you're the main breadwinner for a family? Suppose you have a professional career, with responsibilities to customers, or clients, or patients? Killing yourself could certainly put significant hardship on other people. Those who are suicidally depressed usually don't consider all the ramifications of their act, and rarely make plans to mitigate "collateral" damage. (Though some do.)

 

[The Nihilist]

I think teens are often morbidly obsessed with suicide because they lack life experience to realise that their experiences aren't wholly unique or particularly crushing.
"Oh woe is me, the girl I like doesn't like me...life is over." etc.

Oh, you're absolutely right, you pompous ass. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the volatile state of a teenager's psychology and physiology. I would expect a Buddhist to appreciate the affects of puberty on someone's thoughts and behaviour.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

I think teens are often morbidly obsessed with suicide because they lack life experience to realise that their experiences aren't wholly unique or particularly crushing.
"Oh woe is me, the girl I like doesn't like me...life is over." etc.

It's far from such a superficial example, Peter.

One of the reasons why I bring this point up, at least the issue of suicide itself, is to find what the opinions are concerning it. There are some who, as many display in the thread, hold a very distasteful view of the entire subject or the reasons for committing such an action.

I don't find those who commit the act cowardly even a bit, but, in most cases, many do them for rather rash decisions relating to a traumatic and often despairingly bleak instance.

As for arguments against suicide, as Wiccan_Child asked for; there is only one I really have an relevance in mentioning: Since suicide is the ultimate action of the absurd, as Camus presumes, it is not too skeptical or unbelievable to assume suicide is a rather 'releasing' experience in terms of admitting to the nihilism that exists on the other side of most's existence. My simple answer in response is--to rebel.

 

[quatona]

Suicide is a legitimate option. I think that I am not per se obliged to continue my life.
I wouldn´t find the emotions that others may have because of my death not a convincing argument to keep to an existence I don´t appreciate. I wouldn´t bring up my emotions as an argument against the suicide of a loved one, either.
That said, I think that making children is sort of a unwritten contract to stay alive and assist them in their growth until they can manage their lives on their own.

 

[MatthewKnight]

Suicide is only a factor among atheists. As evolution takes a foothold it skyrockets.

In Christians it is exceedingly rare; if it ever occurs at all.

In one sense suicide is "Darwinism," but not in the way most would think. Not in the sense of removing weakness from the genepool, but the belief in an illogical and unnatural hypothesis.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Suicide is only a factor among atheists. As evolution takes a foothold it skyrockets.

In Christians it is exceedingly rare; if it ever occurs at all.

In one sense suicide is "Darwinism," but not in the way most would think. Not in the sense of removing weakness from the genepool, but the belief in an illogical and unnatural hypothesis.

Are you being serious?

 

[The Nihilist]

.

 

[MatthewKnight]

Are you being serious?

Give your explanation for the virtual nonexistance of suicide in Christian Europe against the rampant depression and suicide rates we face today with the advent of Darwninism and the moral decay that comes with it.

I'm waiting.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Give your explanation for the virtual nonexistance of suicide in Christian Europe against the rampant depression and suicide rates we face today with the advent of Darwninism and the moral decay that comes with it.

I'm waiting.

I would give an explanation if such a statement were even the least bit true.

 

[MatthewKnight]

I would give an explanation if such a statement were even the least bit true.

55% of women are now on antidepressants. We have concepts like feminism, communism, homosexuality and atheism to blame -- in other words, the decline of Christianity in Europe and America that these countries were built on and thusly became the greatest on earth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6428087.stm

The number of men committing suicide in Scotland has risen by almost a quarter over 15 years, it has been revealed.

A Scottish Executive study found the number of men taking their own lives increased by 22% between 1989 and 2004. For women the rise was 6%. Researchers found Glasgow's suicide rate was significantly above the Scottish average.

http://www.childrenfirst.nhs.uk/teens/life/news/archive/2007/june_08.html

Increasing suicide rate in young men

Around one hundred thousand years of life are lost each year as a result of men committing suicide in the UK, a new campaign claims.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

55% of women are now on antidepressants. We have concepts like feminism, communism, homosexuality and atheism to blame -- in other words, the decline of Christianity in Europe and America that these countries were built on and thusly became the greatest on earth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6428087.stm

The number of men committing suicide in Scotland has risen by almost a quarter over 15 years, it has been revealed.

A Scottish Executive study found the number of men taking their own lives increased by 22% between 1989 and 2004. For women the rise was 6%. Researchers found Glasgow's suicide rate was significantly above the Scottish average.

http://www.childrenfirst.nhs.uk/teens/life/news/archive/2007/june_08.html

Increasing suicide rate in young men

Around one hundred thousand years of life are lost each year as a result of men committing suicide in the UK, a new campaign claims.

And not one of these individuals are Christian?

Nor do I see any relevance in what this has to do with the importance of Christianity as a stepping stone to satisfaction and happiness. Most of these increases in suicide can be attributed to situations associated with bourgeoisie middle-class suburbia and its limiting availability in allowing people to achieve that which they set out in hopes of undertaking.

 

[MatthewKnight]

Most of these increases in suicide can be attributed to situations associated with bourgeoisie middle-class suburbia and its limiting availability in allowing people to achieve that which they set out in hopes of undertaking.

I have no idea what you mean by that, nor why you believe it would lead people to take their own life.

The fact that in religious countries suicide rates are so rare should wake you up to the real cause. In many Islamic countries the rate of suicide is at less than 0.1% of the population.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

I have no idea what you mean by that, nor why you believe it would lead people to take their own life.

The fact that in religious countries suicide rates are so rare should wake you up to the real cause. In many Islamic countries the rate of suicide is at less than 0.1% of the population.

Because contemporary life is not so much as it has been brought up to be. That, although we are much more literate, well-off, free(in the direct sense), and capable, we are still faced with issues that limit us and our joys from ever occuring. Isolation, introversion, invisible children, the ignoring of the poor, teenage angst, etc. all constitute contributions that lead us to committing the act that is so so overwhelmingly absurd that it negates existence.

That man, in this age, recognizes an incredible loneliness that has been hidden beneath by the viel of religion, and, in recognizing this bleak expression of their life--whether Christian or not(you do know that issues with faith are a cause of suicide, and it's the falling out from God--which is equally illegal in religious-run countries--that causes many to a despair of their sole responsibility?).

Man is aware, finally, and recognizes he has a choice--not a binding illusion of keeping up with toils that they themselves are abstracted in performing. They recognize they have a choice, and, with this choice, they can do anything; even commit that act which leads their life without them.

Religious suicides are not rare, and I find that the most ridiculous of all things that you have said yet.

 

[MatthewKnight]

Because contemporary life is not so much as it has been brought up to be.

I agree. Moral degeneracy and belief that we're here for no reason whatsoever aren't all they're hyped up to be.

That, although we are much more literate, well-off, free(in the direct sense), and capable, we are still faced with issues that limit us and our joys from ever occuring. Isolation, introversion, invisible children, the ignoring of the poor, teenage angst, etc. all constitute contributions that lead us to committing the act that is so so overwhelmingly absurd that it negates existence.


That man, in this age, recognizes an incredible loneliness that has been hidden beneath by the viel of religion, and, in recognizing this bleak expression of their life--whether Christian or not(you do know that issues with faith are a cause of suicide, and it's the falling out from God--which is equally illegal in religious-run countries--that causes many to a despair of their sole responsibility?).

Man is aware, finally, and recognizes he has a choice--not a binding illusion of keeping up with toils that they themselves are abstracted in performing. They recognize they have a choice, and, with this choice, they can do anything; even commit that act which leads their life without them.

As compared with the hunger, toiling for hours upon hours, constant danger and similar prospects in the past? Please. The current generation has it easy - the generation before them even easier. "Teenage angst" would never occur if the teenager in question were a practicing Christian, because those with faith in the Lord have a meaning and a purpose to live -- unlike your twisted philosophy.

Religious suicides are not rare.

Flat out denial of statistics. The fact is, they are.