Suicide is a sin that cannot be forgiven?

LoveGodsWord said:

How are all sins forgiven if you have not repented, confessed and have not sought God's forgiveness? Where is the scripture that says you do not have to confess your sins when you commit them in order to have God's forgiveness?

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Where is scripture which states that we must confess each individual sin ? Do you feel that you have confessed every sin you have committed in your life ?

Why did Jesus counsel us to pray like this ... ?

"And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

A_Thinker said:

Where is scripture which states that we must confess each individual sin ? Do you feel that you have confessed every sin you have committed in your life ?

Why did Jesus counsel us to pray like this ... ?

"And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

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Here you go. This was already answered some time ago already. Maybe you missed it.

1 JOHN 1:9 [9], If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

PROVERB 28:13 [13], He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

If you kill yourself how are you going to seek God's forgiveness once your dead?

Now please show me a scripture that says suicide is not a sin and can be forgiven?

LoveGodsWord said:

The unpardonable sin today is the state of continued unbelief. The Spirit currently convicts the unsaved world of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). To resist that conviction and willfully remain unrepentant is to “blaspheme” the Spirit. There is no pardon, either in this age or in the age to come, for a person who rejects the Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ and then dies in unbelief.

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Yes ... this is the work of the Spirit to the unbelieving ... to bring them to belief.

As long as one believes on Christ (and produces the natural fruit of that belief/faith), then one has God's salvation.

1 John 5

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Jesus said that whoever comes to Him, He would, under no circumstances, cast out ...

John 6

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

LoveGodsWord said:

1 JOHN 1:9 [9], If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

PROVERB 28:13 [13], He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

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Neither of these references says that unconfessed sin ... is NOT forgiven.

If that were the case, how then were these forgiven ... ?

"Father, forgive them ... for they know not what they do."

LoveGodsWord said:

Some comments for your consideration below...



How does this change the meaning of the scriptures?


HEBREWS 6:4-8

[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,

[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes often upon it, and brings forth plants fit for them by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God:

[8], But that which bears thorns and briars is worthless, and is near unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.


This scripture was quoted because you were suggesting in your previous post that you cannot sin once you have been born again (see post # 184 click me). HEBREWS 6:4-8 is talking about someone that was a Christian that decided to leave the faith to go back to a life of sin. This scripture disagrees with your teachings the same as 1 JOHN which says...


1 JOHN 2:1 [1], My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.


There is more scripture but both of these scriptures disagree with your teaching that no one can sin after they are born again.


These scriptures were provided earlier and a question was asked of you how do you harmonize these scriptures with your statement that you cannot sin once you have been born again? You did not answer the question but simply ignored it (see post # 184 click me)..




The unpardonable sin today is the state of continued unbelief. The Spirit currently convicts the unsaved world of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). To resist that conviction and willfully remain unrepentant is to “blaspheme” the Spirit. There is no pardon, either in this age or in the age to come, for a person who rejects the Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ and then dies in unbelief. The love of God is evident: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). And the choice is clear: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36).


It is those who reject God's WORD that have committed the unpardonable sin.

Salvation is conditional on BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD which says..


1 JOHN 1:9 [9], If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


PROVERB 28:13 [13], He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.


* If you kill yourself how are you going to seek God's forgiveness once your dead?

* Now please show me a scripture that says suicide is not a sin and can be forgiven?


Please answer the scriptures asked of you.


May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

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Hebrew 6:4-6 is not about sin, it is about a willful choice of a mature christian to turn his back on Christ.


I am not suggesting you cannot sin.. i am flat out saying it per 1 John 5:18


We know (5758) that whosoever is born (5772) of God sinneth (5719) not;



I think if the Bible is saying that whoever is born of God sinneth not and according to Dan 9:27 He finished and ended the transgression and sin with whom he reconciled to everlasting righteousness.


So since there is a clear contradiction between the two… I will need to study it before providing a deeper answer. It is clear at the 20000 foot look there is a contradiction.

LoveGodsWord said:

The unpardonable sin today is the state of continued unbelief. The Spirit currently convicts the unsaved world of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). To resist that conviction and willfully remain unrepentant is to “blaspheme” the Spirit. There is no pardon, either in this age or in the age to come, for a person who rejects the Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ and then dies in unbelief. The love of God is evident: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). And the choice is clear: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36).

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Sorry that is not Blaspheming the Holy Spirit. If you look at the context, it is talking about attributing what is of the Holy Spirit and His power to that of the Enemy.

The benefit of the cross extends to all sin.

The following edicts are from Dan 9:27 about the savior. I have broken them down.

Dan 9:27 edicts:
Jesus
1. Finished the transgression
2. made an end to sin
3. made reconciliation for iniquity
4. brings a everlasting righteousness


Lets break it down into the Hebrew
Edict 1: Finished the transgression

-on any level, to restrict the impartation of guilt as the result of a revolt against God or God's will or laws, on either the national, moral, or religious identity of a person or persons

Edict 2: made an end to sin

- to bring to a close the offense and its penalty

Edict 3: make reconciliation for iniquity

- to make the appropriate payment, which will placate any justifiable penalty imposed indisputable fault or faults; payment is made

Edict 4: to bring everlasting righteousness

- to bring between God and man a continuous state of harmony, effected through a perceptual state of justice and righteousness

LoveGodsWord said:

I suggest you re-read the post I have written. It was edited before you posted this post. After you die you go to judgment for what you have done in your life. Where does it say you can confess your sins after you have died?

snip.

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Sir, do you know what goes on during court when you are facing a judge? The person a trial is given a moment to speak in his defense, plead, or even confess. So if the person is facing Jesus, don't you think that he will allow the person time to confess his/her sins and repent before he sends that person to eternal damnation? I mean the Bible does portray God as a loving, maybe you should read those verses as well. You have to be careful when use bible verses to enforce your interpretation of hell and heaven, because you are portraying a god who is evil. That if he exists (based on your understanding) then why would anyone want to go to heaven and worship someone like that?

AACJ said:

First off, the benefits of the cross does not extend to unrepentant sin committed in rebellion. Murdering oneself is such a sin. It is a form of High Handed sin (Numbers 15:30) that the the blood Atonement does not cover becasue it is an act arising from unmitigated rebellion.

Secondly, Scripture makes it clear we are to remain faithful until death (Revelation 2:10). Willfully cutting one's life short is outside of faithfulness because, 1) one is refusing to fulfill all of the will of God for one's life, and 2) one is appealing to death for victory over tribulation and suffering in this world.

Thirdly, our lives are not our own to murder.

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1Co 6:19

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:4

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But at the end it all depends on the reason behind. Not all suicide is the result of any form of selfishness or rebellion. There are people who really have fallen that low in life that their mental state isn't normal anymore.

I will repeat one scenario. There was a family of 5 that got into a horrible car accident, the mother was the only one who survived. Can you imagine the type of pain the mother is going through right now, knowing that she has no more family and she also knows how badly they died? In fact, if i were in her shoes, i would prefer to have died along with them.

There is nothing that can actually make her feel better other than her family being raised from the dead, God allowing (for the first time) to turn back time, or death. We have to be real here. So lets say this mother eventually kills herself, whether immediately or she ends up not eating right to the point she gets sick. Do you think God is that bad that he would send her to hell?

I mean logically, sending some to hell on circumstances like that is unjust. Why did you let that person fall into that serious form of depression that can never heal and yet hold it against that person for submitting to those levels of despair? But since the Bible shows us that God is a merciful God who has compassion and understanding, we should know that he would forgive her decision.

Tears and remembrances for 5 members of N.J. family killed in violent Delaware crash

In Ecclesiastes 3: it is said that there is a time for everything. There are situations and circumstances in this world in where one verse can't answer it universally. Murder for example is an accepted graven sin in all cultures, much more in Christianity, however we also can imagine some situations/circumstances in where this is probably necessary (self-defense).

Suicide is murder

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LoveGodsWord said:

Correct, suicide is indeed an unpardonable sin. One of God's 10 commandments is that we should not kill *EXODUS 20:13. This includes ourselves. When we sin or break God's commandments when we are alive we can always seek God in repentance and forgiveness for our sins as we have faith in God's WORD. You cannot do this once you have killed yourself.

We are not our own we are brought with a price.

1 CORINTHIANS 3:16-17
[16], Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? [17], If any man defiles the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

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Amen

Some food for thought - Pastor John Piper addressed this in his Ask Pastor John series:

You can listen here

Audio Transcript

We have now received almost one hundred email questions from our listeners related to the sobering question of Christians, suicide, and salvation. Several recent emails related to the suicides of pastors. Andrew, a regular podcast listener from Ankeny, Iowa, writes in: “Pastor John, recently, the family pastor at a local church committed suicide. So what happens to the soul of a professing born-again believer who commits suicide? Is this the unforgivable sin? Does this show that the person was never actually a believer because he did not persevere? Or is it possible for someone that commits suicide to still go to heaven?” So Pastor John, these are hard questions, but they are not new to you.

I have been involved closely in several suicides in my life. I cleaned up the basement after the police removed the body of a man who shot himself in the head, and I used a broom to sweep the blood (and other stuff) into a dust pan and pour it down the laundry sink so his wife would not have to see what we found. And then I did his funeral five days later. He was a professing believer. I have done a funeral for a young woman who leaped from the window of the locked ward at the hospital down the street from my house, where she was being safely kept in her psychological distress. And she died by jumping out of a window.

Distrusting God
So let’s be clear now. Self-murder is serious. We are playing with fire here. It is spiritually and eternally serious to murder yourself. It is not a light thing. And anyone listening to me now who is contemplating suicide should hear me say: Don’t do it. There is a better way. I promise you, in the name of Jesus Christ, there is a better way. You don’t feel that, perhaps, right now, but your feelings are not true. They are deceiving you. It is true that God has another way for you. He always makes another way. Wait for him and seek the help you need, because the Bible is very serious about talking of murder.

“God has another way for you. He always makes another way.”
1 John 3:15: “Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Now that should scare the wits out of people who are contemplating ending their life with murder. So what does that mean? Eternal life and murder don’t go in the same soul. But let’s be careful now. Let’s not take this further than it leads. Does he mean that everyone who has a moment of hate is a hateful person? Probably not. Does he mean that everyone who has a murderous moment is a murderer? That is an important question. I doubt it.

Yes, the Bible says we must persevere to the end in order to be saved, Mark 13:13. Or Hebrews 3:14: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.” That is a very serious warning. But it does not mean that our experience of confidence in God to the end is perfect so that we don’t have lapses of sin which betray that we are not fully trusting Christ. All sin, all my sin — the sin that I do this afternoon, tomorrow, yesterday — is all rooted in some level of distrust in the superior goodness of God. And I don’t go in and out of being a Christian when I sin and that measure of distrust becomes manifest in sinning. I don’t cease to be a Christian.

So, saying that we must persevere to the end in confidence doesn’t mean that you must persevere to the end in sinlessness or perfect trust in Christ. There is imperfection in our trust.

Our Last Act
The question now is whether a person who commits suicide goes to heaven. That question boils down to this: If a person has been trusting in Christ as their Savior, their Lord, their treasure, does the last act of their life prove the decisive one in showing their true standing as a child of God? There is the key question. Does the last act — in their case, murder — count as the decisive one at the judgment day in showing that we were in Christ or not? Is the last act the one that determines if our faith was real? Or do all the other acts of life count as evidence as well?

“All sin is rooted in some level of distrust in the superior goodness of God.”“I am waving a flag of hope that true faith can have a season that dark.”

So the last question then becomes this: Can a Christian be so depressed and temporarily blinded to the hope of the gospel that he takes his life in a temporary moment of despair? And I think the answer to that is yes.

Now that is a judgment call on my part to say that seasons of darkness come and go in the Christian life. It is dangerous to say this, because we are all so easily deceived, and we should be terrified to try to meet Jesus by means of murder. That is a horrible choice. But between the terror that we should feel about that choice and the hopelessness for the victim of suicide, between those two I am waving a flag of hope that true faith can have a season that dark.

LoveGodsWord said:

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While i am researching your beliefs, please touch on mine.

How do you figure the following is true:


Dan 9:27 edicts:
Jesus
1. Finished the transgression
2. made an end to sin
3. made reconciliation for iniquity
4. brings a everlasting righteousness


Lets break it down into the Hebrew
Edict 1: Finished the transgression

-on any level, to restrict the impartation of guilt as the result of a revolt against God or God's will or laws, on either the national, moral, or religious identity of a person or persons

Edict 2: made an end to sin

- to bring to a close the offense and its penalty

Edict 3: make reconciliation for iniquity

- to make the appropriate payment, which will placate any justifiable penalty imposed indisputable fault or faults; payment is made

Edict 4: to bring everlasting righteousness

- to bring between God and man a continuous state of harmony, effected through a perceptual state of justice and righteousness

Neostarwcc said:

Has anyone ever heard that suicide is a sin that cannot be forgiven? Where did this teaching come from? Why can't it be forgiven? Didn't Jesus die for all of our sins past, present, and future? So why is suicide an unforgivable sin?

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Yes, and it is not true. The notion that suicide is unpardonable is because it is considered murder of self and you cannot ask forgiveness for self murder - and since you can't ask a priest for forgiveness you can't be forgiven and enter heaven. So says a lot of Catholics I know.

Those who carry out suicide are locked into a living hell you can never understand if you haven't been there yourself, and if you are alive you were never there. You might have been close, but you survived because you were not quite desperate enough, or there were other circumstances where God sent you help. Well, I also ask what about the soldiers who had seen so many horrors during war that they took their own lives rather than be placed into a position to kill another human? Were not those people hero's and martyrs in God's eyes. Where do you draw the line and who has permission from God to draw that line? What about the apostles? They knew that they would be killed if they didn't renounce this new religion so isn't that a sort of suicide? If you KNOW you are going to be killed but you stand by Jesus anyway? What about all of those who go to dig their own grave knowing that they are about to be shot? Aren't they guilty of committing a form of suicide if they don't fight back? When does it count and when does it not count? Who draws the line as to what is suicide and what is not. The mother who shoves her baby out of the path of a speeding car when she could have jumped and made it if only she had not saved the baby. The father who dove into a frozen lake to save his son from drowning only to drown himself and he knew it was probable that he would, but he had to try anyway. That was surely suicide. Well, I don't follow tradition of the RCC and my scripture says that the ONLY unpardonable sin is blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. All other sins were covered by the pure and blessed blood of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. That is my rock.

But I am not condoning suicide just because your mind is ill and hurting. There are many other ways to work yourself out of this hell and that is to first, trust in Jesus Christ with all of your mind and soul. Second is to get up, get out, and help someone. Just one person. Just one small deed. One helping hand, no matter how small. With that you will know what to do from then on and it is not removing yourself from God and Life, but moving yourself toward God and Life. Bless someone by your presence and your doing good against evil, and let them bless someone else. Keep moving and keep blessing. Never stop. Never give up or give in. There is no where that despair can take you where the Love of Jesus Christ cannot take you away from. Give your life to him if you think you are done with it.

Romans 10:5-13 says the righteous do not say who will go to heaven and who will go to hell because doing so either pulls Christ down or up from the dead. None of us are God. Only God knows for certain who goes where after Judgment Day.

LoveGodsWord said:

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While i am researching yours .......How does the following verse fit into your beliefs system:

Matthew 12:
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The bible says that we do not sin (1 John 3:9), not that there is the absence of sin but rather the penality and propitiation is not long applicable because Jesus dismantled sin on the cross once and for all.

1 John 3:9:
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Unless I am reading it out of context... if so please inform me.

Please refer back to the Edicts in Dan 9:24 ive mentioned a couple times before:

Daniel 9:24

He:
finishes
ends
reconciles
Brings everlasting

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.