Suicide and salvation.

[Tellyontellyon]

I'm just curious about this question of suicide. If a person really beloved that Jesus died for them and if they were to kill themselves, would they go to heaven?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I'm just curious about this question of suicide. If a person really beloved that Jesus died for them and if they were to kill themselves, would they go to heaven?

Why do you want to know?

Window shopping for a religion?

My answer is a definite YES...

 

[disciple Clint]

I'm just curious about this question of suicide. If a person really beloved that Jesus died for them and if they were to kill themselves, would they go to heaven?

No one can say for certain who would or would not go to heaven. Some considerations would be that a person cannot commit a sin if they are not aware that what they are doing is a sin or if they are not able to understand that they are sinning or if what they are doing is not an intentional act. Now consider the frame of mind that someone would be in when they take their own life. Are their powers of reason being used or are they in so much emotional distress that they fail to be able to reason as they normally would.

 

[Llleopard]

If anyone believes that Christ rose from the dead and confesses Him as Lord, then they are saved. I don't see in the Bible that how they die makes any difference to the state of their spirit. I am a person who sometimes really struggles with suicidal thoughts. I can assure you it has absolutely nothing to do with how much I love God, and it surely wouldn't make it any easier to work through the feelings if someone kept heaping guilt on me by suggesting I felt that way because I didn't trust God enough, or wasn't praying enough, or that I just shouldn't feel that way because I ought to love God more and wasn't grateful enough.

 

[Anthony2019]

Very often the person involved in suicide has lost the ability to think clearly and make rational choices. If a mere human being can feel compassion for someone who suffered unimaginable mental suffering, then how much more will God?

 

[Radagast]

I'm just curious about this question of suicide. If a person really beloved that Jesus died for them and if they were to kill themselves, would they go to heaven?

Protestants who believe in salvation by faith alone would say "yes," because the sins of believers in Christ have been forgiven.

Catholics would be concerned that suicide is a mortal sin. The Catholic position is: "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."(Catholic Catechism 2282b-2283)

 

[Aussie Pete]

I'm just curious about this question of suicide. If a person really beloved that Jesus died for them and if they were to kill themselves, would they go to heaven?

If the person had accepted Christ, yes. Believing the facts about Jesus is not enough.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Thank you. That's helpful.

 

[Johan_1988]

Well, look at it this way. You cannot repent if you are dead. So you cannot kill yourself and then ask God for forgiveness. Not that I am insensitive to people whom are suicidal. I was for many years, but there is no scripture to suggest there is repentance beyond the grave.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Llleopard]

Protestants who believe in salvation by faith alone would say "yes," because the sins of believers in Christ have been forgiven.

Catholics would be concerned that suicide is a mortal sin. The Catholic position is: "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."(Catholic Catechism 2282b-2283)

Why do Catholics think suicide is even a sin? What is a 'mortal sin ' please? I don't understand why you think it is something that needs repentance?

 

[Radagast]

Why do Catholics think suicide is even a sin?

I'm not Catholic, but I can quote from the Catholic catechism:

Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of. Suicide ... offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God. ... It is forbidden by the fifth commandment. (2280, 2281, 2325)

Protestants would agree with this. To quote from the Heidelberg Catechism (Q&A 105):

Q. What is God’s will for you in the sixth commandment? (same as 5th in Catholic numbering)
A. ... I am not to harm or recklessly endanger myself either (Matthew 4:7) ...

What is a 'mortal sin ' please?

Mortal sin, in Catholic parlance, is the more serious kind of sin which "destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him." (Catholic Catechism 1855).

This distinction between mortal and venial sin is not something which Protestants share.

 

[com7fy8]

I'm just curious about this question of suicide.

Simply don't do it. Don't even make an allowance for it to be excused. But trust God who is able to keep us >

"and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7)

So, instead of asking what will happen if we don't obey Jesus, ask what is guaranteed to happen if we do trust and obey Jesus >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

Jesus is almighty, His peace and rest is almighty to keep us. This is guaranteed.

So, why think up theoretical possibilities otherwise? Why even go there? Jesus is not interested in threatening us with Hell, but Jesus on the cross suffered and died like that with hope for us to be with God.

Plus, we are guaranteed deep and real correction because our Father loves us > Hebrews 12:4-14.

So, why ever would people want to think up loopholes so they could sin and fail and die like that, when we can be believing God guarantees to give us rest and real correction so we do not fail?

If a person really beloved that Jesus died for them and if they were to kill themselves, would they go to heaven?

Why would you want to trust in a loophole to allow something like that? Our covenant with Jesus is that God is guaranteed to succeed >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

We are guaranteed that if we trust in and obey Jesus, "you will find rest for your souls." (Matthew 11:28-30)

And God is able to change us out of any sort of cruel and evil emotional and spiritual stuff and feelings. His peace is almighty to guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. So, why ever are people thinking up other possibilities???? I would say that is not compassionate, at all; but pray with hope of all God's word guarantees for any person who has trusted in Christ.

If we can believe we are guaranteed Heaven, no matter what, then we can believe God's peace is almighty to keep our hearts and minds, no matter what. So, why believe one but not the other?????

God's peace in us now is Heaven's peace now in us. So, in our covenant which Jesus Christ's blood has bought, we already are in Heaven by being in this peace . . . now. And it is written >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, already we are experiencing God's own love which is Heaven's love in the Holy Spirit who is Heaven's Spirit. So . . . already . . . now . . . we in Jesus are experiencing how Heaven is.

So, why are people promoting a thing that people can sin and fail and die and get blessed somehow later? And this would mean someone thinks they have believed in Jesus, and goes on deeply suffering and failing on and on and on . . . when now we can have almighty peace and correction so we are with God in His own love. I don't think it is compassionate to tell people to accept any other possibility.

We have people who claim that because God loves us His children, He will take us to Heaven, no matter how we sin, right before we die. Ones claim you can murder someone and die right then and go to Heaven, after you have asked Jesus to save you.

But God's word says that because our Father loves us who are His children . . . He corrects us > Hebrews 12:4-14. He deeply changes our character so we do not give in to evil things. And His peace almighty "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7) This is guaranteed to every child of God . . . every person who has trusted in Christ.

So, there is a package deal of guarantees, here, how we are guaranteed to spend eternity with Jesus, and guaranteed how God will succeed in correcting us and succeeds easily in His almighty power to guard our hearts and minds.

So, I would say feed on this, in trusting in Jesus.

And be warned that we will reap what we sow.

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." (Galatians 6:7-8)

We now reap according to what we have been sowing to ourselves. So, it is not wise to invest in being able to commit suicide or murder just before we die!! Instead, invest in how God is able to keep us and correct us and share with us in His own peace > this, by the way, is part of our basic Christian calling and covenant in trusting Jesus >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Therefore, I am not being compassionate by not helping people to this. This is about how God is able, not about what we can handle or do or not. Jesus brings us to all which is possible with God.

So, I would not sow what would allow us to go elsewhere. That would not be compassionate. And there are religions that are based on what is possible with humans and our limitations . . . not where to go, I would offer . . . worshiping excuses and loopholes and trusting that instead of trusting in Christ.

 

[Goodhuman]

The biggest sin is suicide.

 

[Carl Emerson]

By way of balance, I had a close friend who was an alcoholic and suicidal. She had a deep faith in Him. She was struggling with the addiction and self harming. In the middle of all this she had an encounter with His voice - He said "If you take your life I wont love you any less."

These words broke the cycle and were deeply healing.

 

[Llleopard]

Simply don't do it. Don't even make an allowance for it to be excused. But trust God who is able to keep us >

"and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7)

So, instead of asking what will happen if we don't obey Jesus, ask what is guaranteed to happen if we do trust and obey Jesus >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

Jesus is almighty, His peace and rest is almighty to keep us. This is guaranteed.

So, why think up theoretical possibilities otherwise? Why even go there? Jesus is not interested in threatening us with Hell, but Jesus on the cross suffered and died like that with hope for us to be with God.

Plus, we are guaranteed deep and real correction because our Father loves us > Hebrews 12:4-14.

So, why ever would people want to think up loopholes so they could sin and fail and die like that, when we can be believing God guarantees to give us rest and real correction so we do not fail?

Why would you want to trust in a loophole to allow something like that? Our covenant with Jesus is that God is guaranteed to succeed >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

We are guaranteed that if we trust in and obey Jesus, "you will find rest for your souls." (Matthew 11:28-30)

And God is able to change us out of any sort of cruel and evil emotional and spiritual stuff and feelings. His peace is almighty to guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. So, why ever are people thinking up other possibilities???? I would say that is not compassionate, at all; but pray with hope of all God's word guarantees for any person who has trusted in Christ.

If we can believe we are guaranteed Heaven, no matter what, then we can believe God's peace is almighty to keep our hearts and minds, no matter what. So, why believe one but not the other?????

God's peace in us now is Heaven's peace now in us. So, in our covenant which Jesus Christ's blood has bought, we already are in Heaven by being in this peace . . . now. And it is written >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, already we are experiencing God's own love which is Heaven's love in the Holy Spirit who is Heaven's Spirit. So . . . already . . . now . . . we in Jesus are experiencing how Heaven is.

So, why are people promoting a thing that people can sin and fail and die and get blessed somehow later? And this would mean someone thinks they have believed in Jesus, and goes on deeply suffering and failing on and on and on . . . when now we can have almighty peace and correction so we are with God in His own love. I don't think it is compassionate to tell people to accept any other possibility.

We have people who claim that because God loves us His children, He will take us to Heaven, no matter how we sin, right before we die. Ones claim you can murder someone and die right then and go to Heaven, after you have asked Jesus to save you.

But God's word says that because our Father loves us who are His children . . . He corrects us > Hebrews 12:4-14. He deeply changes our character so we do not give in to evil things. And His peace almighty "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7) This is guaranteed to every child of God . . . every person who has trusted in Christ.

So, there is a package deal of guarantees, here, how we are guaranteed to spend eternity with Jesus, and guaranteed how God will succeed in correcting us and succeeds easily in His almighty power to guard our hearts and minds.

So, I would say feed on this, in trusting in Jesus.

And be warned that we will reap what we sow.

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." (Galatians 6:7-8)

We now reap according to what we have been sowing to ourselves. So, it is not wise to invest in being able to commit suicide or murder just before we die!! Instead, invest in how God is able to keep us and correct us and share with us in His own peace > this, by the way, is part of our basic Christian calling and covenant in trusting Jesus >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Therefore, I am not being compassionate by not helping people to this. This is about how God is able, not about what we can handle or do or not. Jesus brings us to all which is possible with God.

So, I would not sow what would allow us to go elsewhere. That would not be compassionate. And there are religions that are based on what is possible with humans and our limitations . . . not where to go, I would offer . . . worshiping excuses and loopholes and trusting that instead of trusting in Christ.

Having an illness like depression is not failing. People like me who struggle with but have not (yet)committed suicide are not failures. We are stronger than you can even imagine just by getting through each day. Trying to heap guilt on us because we don't experience the faith journey the way you think we should is just nasty. Not everyone thinks suicide is a sin. I just read that catholic thing(thanks) and that protestant thing (now I see why so many protestants don't stick with those man made creeds and ideas and use the Bible instead)

 

[Radagast]

People like me who struggle with but have not (yet)committed suicide are not failures. We are stronger than you can even imagine just by getting through each day. Trying to heap guilt on us because we don't experience the faith journey the way you think we should is just nasty.

It's worth pointing out that "sin" applies only to the things that we have a choice about. To the extent that our physical body is forcing us to do something, it's not a sin. This is what the Catholic Catechism means by "can diminish the responsibility."

For Protestants, however, even when suicide is a definite sin, it's still a sin for which believers have forgiveness through Christ.

It's also worth pointing out that many people have a physical or mental condition that pushes them in the direction of a particular sin. People with a high sex drive struggle more with lust than people who have no sex drive at all. People with certain physical conditions get angry more easily than others.

C.S. Lewis, in Mere Christianity, uses the language of a driving a car:

But if you are a poor creature -- poisoned by a wretched upbringing in some house full of vulgar jealousies and senseless quarrels -- saddled, by no choice of your own, with some loathsome sexual perversion -- nagged day in and day out by an inferiority complex that makes you snap at your best friends -- do not despair. He knows all about it. You are one of the poor whom He blessed. He knows what a wretched machine you are trying to drive. Keep on. Do what you can. One day (perhaps in another world, but perhaps far sooner than that) he will fling it on the scrap-heap and give you a new one. And then you may astonish us all -- not least yourself: for you have learned your driving in a hard school. (Some of the last will be first and some of the first will be last.)

 

[John Helpher]

I'm just curious about this question of suicide. If a person really beloved that Jesus died for them and if they were to kill themselves, would they go to heaven?

I agree with what someone else said about God being the final judge regarding to whom he'd give his grace. We tend to think in legalistic boxes (which sometimes can be helpful, especially for immature people like children or adults who're still trying to grow up ) but God is able to consider all the circumstances, context, and motivations of the individual to discern what is the most just response to the situation.

It may be that God will have mercy on one suicide while punishing a different suicide based on the motivation behind each. There is no formula for rightly applying wisdom; each case will be judged on its own merit.

 

[Sketcher]

I'm just curious about this question of suicide. If a person really beloved that Jesus died for them and if they were to kill themselves, would they go to heaven?

I generally tell people it's not worth experimenting to find out.

 

[John Helpher]

We are stronger than you can even imagine just by getting through each day.

This reminds me of a song lyric I like; "Each one of us fights battles no one else can see, some days just waking up is an act of bravery".

 

[AntiVillain]

The biggest sin is suicide.

No, the biggest sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:24-32).