Suggestion led me

[timothyu]

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

His rules, only fair He sets the example.

 

[weekEd]

Funny you should ask. Got your seatbelt on?

Hebrews 11 NIV

"1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.

23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.

24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.

31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.

32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect."

And...

Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Their beliefs were incorrect yet their faith of reward was enough to cause them to be respected.
That if here they did what they did in belief they would be rewarded here was sufficient for them to be respected here.

 

[Joseph G]

Their beliefs were incorrect yet their faith of reward was enough to cause them to be respected.
That if here they did what they did in belief they would be rewarded here was sufficient for them to be respected here.

They didn't have faith to be respected by mere men, but to please God:

Hebrews 11:6 NIV

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him."

And they didn't have faith for mere earthly rewards:

Matthew 6:19-21 NIV

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

 

[weekEd]

Romans 5:6-8 NIV

"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Paul saw a light then when blind
Physiological explanations as to why this happened is irrelevant to the respect he is afforded by those that belive him, rightfully or not, because he was firm in his faith of his experience irrelevant of its causes and they are firm in their belief that faith is salvation from loosely "anything related" regardless of their claims of faith or doctrine?
Given his assignment to kill Christians he must have had to learn about his targets even if he did not subscribe to their faith or beliefs.
And Romulus relegated to history..

 

[weekEd]

They didn't have faith to be respected by mere men, but to please God:

Hebrews 11:6 NIV

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him."

And they didn't have faith for mere earthly rewards:

Matthew 6:19-21 NIV

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

Thank you for your help.
I'll get back when I can.

 

[linux.poet]

Not quite. God gave authority over His creation to Adam and Eve (this earth anyway). Adam handed that authority over to Satan when he chose to disobey God.

Sorry, I got my wires crossed a little bit. God handed over the authority over the creation to man, and then we gave it to Satan, which is why the creation is cursed and fights against us.

The authority I was referring to was NOT the authority over the creation, but God’s authority over us as humans, which he delegated to nobody until Christ’s death and resurrection. That is what I meant by “the world” as in the John 3:16 world, namely the world of human beings. The fact that this authority was not delegated is evident in the giving of the Law in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy, and the fact that Satan has to ask permission of God before doing anything to us (see Job 1-2).

Now, post Christ’s death and resurrection, all authority has been given to Christ, and thus the creation is, through the Holy Spirit’s guidance, subject to the Christian. Under the Holy Spirit’s guidance we have invented all these technologies to subdue the creation to us. The problem is our fallen bodies, and so we expend so much of the creations’ resources to comfort and sustain them. We also are not all following Christ and those of us who are still following Satan make life difficult for the creation as well. When our bodies our redeemed, the creation will be restored.

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the eagerly awaiting creation waits for the revealing of the sons and daughters of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only that, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons and daughters, the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, through perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Sorry, I got my wires crossed a little bit. God handed over the authority over the creation to man, and then we gave it to Satan, which is why the creation is cursed and fights against us.

The authority I was referring to was NOT the authority over the creation, but God’s authority over us as humans, which he delegated to nobody until Christ’s death and resurrection. That is what I meant by “the world” as in the John 3:16 world, namely the world of human beings. The fact that this authority was not delegated is evident in the giving of the Law in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy, and the fact that Satan has to ask permission of God before doing anything to us (see Job 1-2).

Now, post Christ’s death and resurrection, all authority has been given to Christ, and thus the creation is, through the Holy Spirit’s guidance, subject to the Christian. Under the Holy Spirit’s guidance we have invented all these technologies to subdue the creation to us. The problem is our fallen bodies, and so we expend so much of the creations’ resources to comfort and sustain them. We also are not all following Christ and those of us who are still following Satan make life difficult for the creation as well. When our bodies our redeemed, the creation will be restored.

I'm not convinced. The world is in the control of the evil one (1 John 5:19). Part of the work that Jesus did was to destroy the works of the devil. That includes breaking his hold over mankind. But that only applies to those who are born again. Everyone else is subject to Satan's control. Adam rebelled against God's authority and man has been rebelling ever since.

God made a covenant with Israel, which they accepted. Fundamentally, it was blessing for obedience and cursing for disobedience. We know how well that turned out for Israel. Christians pray "Your will be done on earth as in heaven". That is because God's will is not being done. Once God is satisfied with the work of the church, He will call time. Satan knows this, which is why he does his very best to keep the church from living in the victory that Jesus won for us. Satan will fail, of that there is no doubt. The true church is glorious, without wrinkle or blemish. How long to go? God alone knows. Not long, I believe. I'll be glad to trade in my body for a new one! Mine is reaching its best before date too quickly.

 

[weekEd]

Not quite. God gave authority over His creation to Adam and Eve (this earth anyway). Adam handed that authority over to Satan when he chose to disobey God.

Lord Jesus came as the "Last Adam". Because He was born sinless, He could make a fresh choice on behalf of all who would receive Him. Lord Jesus obeyed God perfectly and completely. Satan was defeated and Lord Jesus victorious. God gives the victory won by Jesus to all who are born again. God's intent was that man should rule and reign on this earth. God's plan and purpose cannot be thwarted. Lord Jesus is also called "The second Man".

If we want to live overcoming and victorious lives, we should seek to know these truths. The world is under the control of the evil one, Satan. We have the power and authority to resist the devil, who must flee from us.

Who isn't born sinless?
Moses was a "special child" to his parents
Parental love, what's the qualifier in that that it has to be the foundation of a particular belief system codified as the basis of divinity for either man?

 

[weekEd]

Romans 5:6-8 NIV

"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Who convicted Jesus?

 

[weekEd]

His rules, only fair He sets the example.

Does this mean Jesus died in vain?

 

[weekEd]

I'm not convinced. The world is in the control of the evil one (1 John 5:19). Part of the work that Jesus did was to destroy the works of the devil. That includes breaking his hold over mankind. But that only applies to those who are born again. Everyone else is subject to Satan's control. Adam rebelled against God's authority and man has been rebelling ever since.

God made a covenant with Israel, which they accepted. Fundamentally, it was blessing for obedience and cursing for disobedience. We know how well that turned out for Israel. Christians pray "Your will be done on earth as in heaven". That is because God's will is not being done. Once God is satisfied with the work of the church, He will call time. Satan knows this, which is why he does his very best to keep the church from living in the victory that Jesus won for us. Satan will fail, of that there is no doubt. The true church is glorious, without wrinkle or blemish. How long to go? God alone knows. Not long, I believe. I'll be glad to trade in my body for a new one! Mine is reaching its best before date too quickly.

Wouldn't it be nice if longevity increased youth?

 

[weekEd]

Sorry, I got my wires crossed a little bit. God handed over the authority over the creation to man, and then we gave it to Satan, which is why the creation is cursed and fights against us.

The authority I was referring to was NOT the authority over the creation, but God’s authority over us as humans, which he delegated to nobody until Christ’s death and resurrection. That is what I meant by “the world” as in the John 3:16 world, namely the world of human beings. The fact that this authority was not delegated is evident in the giving of the Law in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy, and the fact that Satan has to ask permission of God before doing anything to us (see Job 1-2).

Now, post Christ’s death and resurrection, all authority has been given to Christ, and thus the creation is, through the Holy Spirit’s guidance, subject to the Christian. Under the Holy Spirit’s guidance we have invented all these technologies to subdue the creation to us. The problem is our fallen bodies, and so we expend so much of the creations’ resources to comfort and sustain them. We also are not all following Christ and those of us who are still following Satan make life difficult for the creation as well. When our bodies our redeemed, the creation will be restored.

Conceding that "we" have the world to Satan is a little self depreciating.
As the story goes Adam and Eve were banished from Eden.

 

[linux.poet]

The world is in the control of the evil one (1 John 5:19).

1 John 5:19 uses the words under the sway of. Sway is not authority, it is simply influence. I can influence someone without being in authority over them. Napoleon had influence even after his actual authority was gone. The same is true of the devil.

Also, “control” is different from “rightful authority”. Satan has no rightful authority since he has chosen the path of rebelling against God and becoming the Father of Lies. All rightful authority has been stripped from him at this point. To go back to the passage that started this whole thing:

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.”

This passage says: Christ is the authority. All believers submit to that authority, as per Romans 10:9.

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The title “Lord” simply means “boss”. Part of being saved is acknowledging Jesus’ authority over you. He is your boss.

Conceding that "we" have the world to Satan is a little self depreciating.
As the story goes Adam and Eve were banished from Eden.

Eve believed Satan’s deception in the Garden, and Adam went along with Eve. They could have kicked the serpent out of the garden or told God about it, but instead they submitted to it and obeyed what Satan said.

As for Adam and Eve being banished, that simply reinforces my point that God’s authority over us was never delegated away from the triune God. God still had the authority to kick us out of the Garden, impose a Law on us, and rescue us from sin in Christ.

 

[timothyu]

As for Adam and Eve being banished, that simply reinforces my point that God’s authority over us was never delegated away from the triune God. God still had the authority to kick us out of the Garden, impose a Law on us, and rescue us from sin in Christ.

Exactly. And the Tempter, working under the authourity of God, still had the authority to test the allegiances of man including Jesus in the desert. God was already aware some of His elohim had gone rogue, which of course begs the question why any were even allowed in the Garden. Man seems to be version two, seeking to improve a spiritual being while encased in flesh to find a cure for rebellion. Kind of like growing a human ear on the back of a lab rat or come to think of it, if a dog or cat can become domesticated, then why not a human with free will and self awareness. God has never seemed overly concerned about the body dying or huge swaths of humanity being wiped out for following lesser gods, those rebellious elohim. As His focus seems to have always been on the spirit angle perhaps we think our bodies too important a part of the equation and see ourselves from the wrong perspective. Time to focus more on what He is trying to perfect, an entity with free will that will not become adversarial to His will. A noble experiment.

 

[Aussie Pete]

1 John 5:19 uses the words under the sway of. Sway is not authority, it is simply influence. I can influence someone without being in authority over them. Napoleon had influence even after his actual authority was gone. The same is true of the devil.

Also, “control” is different from “rightful authority”. Satan has no rightful authority since he has chosen the path of rebelling against God and becoming the Father of Lies. All rightful authority has been stripped from him at this point. To go back to the passage that started this whole thing:



This passage says: Christ is the authority. All believers submit to that authority, as per Romans 10:9.



The title “Lord” simply means “boss”. Part of being saved is acknowledging Jesus’ authority over you. He is your boss.

Eve believed Satan’s deception in the Garden, and Adam went along with Eve. They could have kicked the serpent out of the garden or told God about it, but instead they submitted to it and obeyed what Satan said.

As for Adam and Eve being banished, that simply reinforces my point that God’s authority over us was never delegated away from the triune God. God still had the authority to kick us out of the Garden, impose a Law on us, and rescue us from sin in Christ.

Satan has rightful authority over the world because Adam gave it to him. Jesus took that authority back and gave it to all who are born again. The world still is blinded by the god of this world. The totality of the world system is Satan's creation. People seem to forget that the tree of knowledge was both good and evil. So what people call good is not necessarily acceptable to God. No one, including Hamas, thinks that they are in the wrong.

 

[Joseph G]

Satan has rightful authority over the world because Adam gave it to him. Jesus took that authority back and gave it to all who are born again. The world still is blinded by the god of this world. The totality of the world system is Satan's creation. People seem to forget that the tree of knowledge was both good and evil. So what people call good is not necessarily acceptable to God. No one, including Hamas, thinks that they are in the wrong.

Good points. I've often wondered if God didn't have a second motive in forbidding the knowledge to man - because He knew we couldn't handle it. Look what we've done with it.

Makes me hope when we enter glory, if we won't be returned to a state of Pre-Fall blissful ignorance perceiving ONLY Good because we'll be perpetually in His presence. Hope so!

 

[weekEd]

Satan has rightful authority over the world because Adam gave it to him. Jesus took that authority back and gave it to all who are born again. The world still is blinded by the god of this world. The totality of the world system is Satan's creation. People seem to forget that the tree of knowledge was both good and evil. So what people call good is not necessarily acceptable to God. No one, including Hamas, thinks that they are in the wrong.

kinda selfish of god... the hunger caused by the body motivates until the end...

 

[oikonomia]

What do you mean by "Christ"s rightful authority"?

Do you believe Jesus is available?
Or do you believe that Jesus is not available?

To the question of "Christ's rightful authority" I first would ask you if He is actually available
for anyone to know now. What do you think?

 

[oikonomia]

What was his sacrifice?

I like to go to Phillippians to review the steps of Christ's humbling of Himself to save us.

[Christ] Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God a treasure to be grasped,

But emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, becoming in the likeness of men;

And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of a cross.

Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:6-11)

 

[Aussie Pete]

kinda selfish of god... the hunger caused by the body motivates until the end...

No. There were many fruit trees in Eden. All but one were freely available to Adam and Eve.