Suffering

[ananda]

The Buddha taught that the basic undercurrent in life which motivates most individual's behavior is suffering. Others tend to disagree, pointing to the fact that there are joys in life.

I agree that there are temporary joys in life. However, I would say that we constantly seek out those joys, pleasure, and other activities, in order to achieve a measure of happiness in order to temporary eliminate the suffering we feel in our daily lives. The fact that we do not seek out suffering to eliminate happiness proves to me that suffering is truly the underlying factor which motivates our decisions in life.

 

[Davian]

...
I agree that there are temporary joys in life. However, I would say that we constantly seek out those joys, pleasure, and other activities, in order to achieve a measure of happiness in order to temporary eliminate the suffering we feel in our daily lives. The fact that we do not seek out suffering to eliminate happiness proves to me that suffering is truly the underlying factor which motivates our decisions in life.

I dunno. I can recall wanting to be married and have children.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Any brain system scientist is likely to agree we are basicaslly motivated by both the pursuit of pleasure, and avoidance of suffering. Which is more fundamental, the right hand or the left?

AFAIK pain and suffering are related to neurochemicals like substance P, and also cortizol. Happiness and pleasure involve endorphins and oxytocin.

Symmetry (from Greek συμμετρία symmetria "agreement in dimensions, due proportion, arrangement") in everyday language refers to a sense of harmonious and beautiful proportion and balance. (Wikipedia)

 

[ananda]

I dunno. I can recall wanting to be married and have children.

 

[ananda]

Any brain system scientist is likely to agree we are basicaslly motivated by both the pursuit of pleasure, and avoidance of suffering. Which is more fundamental, the right hand or the left?

AFAIK pain and suffering are related to neurochemicals like substance P, and also cortizol. Happiness and pleasure involve endorphins and oxytocin.

Symmetry (from Greek συμμετρία symmetria "agreement in dimensions, due proportion, arrangement") in everyday language refers to a sense of harmonious and beautiful proportion and balance. (Wikipedia)

I think that was my premise, that pain and suffering is more fundamental than happiness and pleasure.

 

[Mediaeval]

"To be Christian is to believe in Christ and to suffer for the sake of this faith….Severity is the only thing that can help a man." Søren Kierkegaard

 

[juvenissun]

I dunno. I can recall wanting to be married and have children.

You wanted to, because you suffered.

 

[juvenissun]

The Buddha taught that the basic undercurrent in life which motivates most individual's behavior is suffering. Others tend to disagree, pointing to the fact that there are joys in life.

I agree that there are temporary joys in life. However, I would say that we constantly seek out those joys, pleasure, and other activities, in order to achieve a measure of happiness in order to temporary eliminate the suffering we feel in our daily lives. The fact that we do not seek out suffering to eliminate happiness proves to me that suffering is truly the underlying factor which motivates our decisions in life.

Agree.
But, has the Buddhism touched the bottom of the problem yet?
If one spent all his life to battle the suffering, would he ultimately miss the target?

 

[ananda]

"To be Christian is to believe in Christ and to suffer for the sake of this faith….Severity is the only thing that can help a man." Søren Kierkegaard

How would you say that suffering helps a man?

 

[ananda]

Agree.
But, has the Buddhism touched the bottom of the problem yet?
If one spent all his life to battle the suffering, would he ultimately miss the target?

Yes, he found the cure for suffering, which was summarized in his eightfold path. The target would be missed if he battled the suffering - the key is to neither battle nor to embrace it.

 

[juvenissun]

Yes, he found the cure for suffering, which was summarized in his eightfold path. The target would be missed if he battled the suffering - the key is to neither battle nor to embrace it.

That is the guideline. One is likely to devout his WHOLE LIFE to practice that. There is no guarantee of success, and the chance of failing is very high. According to what you said, the suffering can never be "cured". It can only be ignored.

And, Buddhism may simply missed the real meaning of suffering. May be if SHOULD be battled and embraced.

 

[ananda]

That is the guideline. One is likely to devout his WHOLE LIFE to practice that. There is no guarantee of success, and the chance of failing is very high. According to what you said, the suffering can never be "cured". It can only be ignored.

And, Buddhism may simply missed the real meaning of suffering. May be if SHOULD be battled and embraced.

Why should it be battled and embraced? I'm not sure why suffering should be battled and embraced; IMO it only causes more suffering.

I have found, in my personal practice, that through the practice of the eightfold path and by not being attached to suffering, my peace and happiness increases, and continues to persist the longer I practice. I need no external guarantee that it works, since I have experienced it directly for myself.

 

[Mediaeval]

How would you say that suffering helps a man?

By suffering we learn obedience to our Father’s will (Hebrews 5:8), wherein true delight is found (Psalm 40:8; Hebrews 12:2).

“The Son of God...suffered unto the death, not that men might not suffer, but that their suffering might be like his, and lead them up to his perfection.” George MacDonald (1824-1905)

 

[juvenissun]

Why should it be battled and embraced? I'm not sure why suffering should be battled and embraced; IMO it only causes more suffering.

I have found, in my personal practice, that through the practice of the eightfold path and by not being attached to suffering, my peace and happiness increases, and continues to persist the longer I practice. I need no external guarantee that it works, since I have experienced it directly for myself.

Suffering has it origin and has its purpose. That is why.

Yes, you may have more peace and happiness. But that is NOT ENOUGH. It is not the goal. You need to understand the nature of suffering, not just ignore it.

 

[ananda]

By suffering we learn obedience to our Father’s will (Hebrews 5:8), wherein true delight is found (Psalm 40:8; Hebrews 12:2).

“The Son of God...suffered unto the death, not that men might not suffer, but that their suffering might be like his, and lead them up to his perfection.” George MacDonald (1824-1905)

So, according to your faith, suffering is meant to prod us to seek out the resolution of suffering through obedience?

 

[ananda]

Suffering has it origin and has its purpose. That is why.

Yes, you may have more peace and happiness. But that is NOT ENOUGH. It is not the goal. You need to understand the nature of suffering, not just ignore it.

What do you believe is the nature, origin, and purpose of suffering?

 

[juvenissun]

What do you believe is the nature, origin, and purpose of suffering?

You must believe that the origin and all the reasons of suffering is from human itself. So if you could make yourself not existing, the all the sufferings would also be ceased.
Is there any possibility that sufferings are ADDED to human? I think Buddhism might be the only major religion which excludes this possibility.

 

[Received]

I don't know if you can really aim to avoid suffering. You can aim to avoid pain, but suffering (as far as I can tell from my limited understanding of Buddhism) is created from a desire to escape pain. So to say that we aim to avoid suffering means we aim to avoid avoidance of pain, which is a bit gobbledygookish. It's more sensical to speak of pain as having an influence on our motivation, and not immediate pain that's already present (which would be suffering), but pain as a possibility -- pain in the future.

But we need painful experiences to grow, and there are plenty of times where we intentionally take on pain as part of the happiness project we have at any moment. So it gets complicated.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I think that was my premise, that pain and suffering is more fundamental than happiness and pleasure.

The parts of the brain that control both are fairly old. However, if I recall correctly, pain is the older of the sensations. But, some people do see pain; some people get a thrill out of it. Personally, while I do not seek pain out, I would consider my experience of life to be lesser without it.

 

[Dre Khipov]

I think that was my premise, that pain and suffering is more fundamental than happiness and pleasure.

I wouldn't say that these are more fundamental. Is the darkness more "fundamental" than light?

Our conceptual understanding is that of perceiving contrast. Our existence demands that we see beginning and end, that we distinguish between various objects, that we see some contrast.

Suffering is just a necessary contrast from non-suffering. I know it may seem callous, but it's likewise a matter of perspective. I've played college sports, and it hurts. Pushing yourself beyond your "natural limits" can be painful, yet plenty of people do that and find some joy and satisfaction in that. Are they gluttons for suffering? I doubt it.

I know it's different from someone dying of cancer, or suffering the agony of hunger or torture, or even mental distress. That's where I think that Christian side of the equation (or religion in general) is not moving in the direction where it claims to believe.

If there were true Christian denominations in this world, I don't think they'd waste enormous amount of human resources and potential on singing praise songs and "studying the Bible". It's a relatively simple book for goodness snakes . How many times one has to read it in order to move on doing something productive in the scope of what it promotes?