Suffering is good for you. Well, IS it?

[Johnnz]

You will find NT references to sanctification as something done for us. It is the outcome of our being justified through what Christ has done. It's primary meaning is to be set aside for God' use. For example:
1 Cor 1:2-3 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy

In a 'mixed marriage' the word is applied to an unbelieving partner, scarcely someone being 'improved' by suffering. (1 Cor 7:14)

We can respond positively or negatively to hard times. But unless it is a judgement which most often is a consequence of our own actions, suffering is not purposed by God as part of our necessary 'spiritual development'.

John
NZ

 

[salamacum]

I'm very willing for people in pastoral work to give some testimonies here.
Was was the soil like into which the seeds of suffering came? Did some people just become bitter and blame God.

I suppose as an emerging charismatic I'm personally rather tired of the "God did this to me for a purpose" conversation.

I'm even veering to a "well, it's life isn't it, but God (and I) can use it"

Homerinchch - is it really God's will never for us to suffer? What about the passages in Paul which talk about the Lord's discipline and how at the time we don't like it?
Or the passage which talks about the building of strong and spiritual personality (patience, love, empathy etc) which are the result of trial. It is my experience that those virtues don't come just with bible-study, worship and meditation.

 

[ShadedLotus]

I think we all could agree that suffering, in itself, is not a good thing. But, I believe that, if we approach it with a skillful mindset, suffering can serve as an inspiration or a motivation for us to do things that are good and beneficial (e.g. the pain of losing a loved one to cancer might motivate someone to donate time and money to cancer research). That can be a pretty big "if," though, as I've found that people tend to act destructively when faced with suffering. In my view, the ability to turn suffering into positive action is indicative of spiritual maturity.

 

[globug54321]

(Didn't want to start a new thread but I couldn't find an existing related topic.)

Is suffering good for you?
Is this what "All things work togther for good" means for Christians.

What's been your experience? Has it been good for you emotionally, physically, as well as spiritually?

Anybody damaged spiritually by suffering?

And what kind of suffering is good for you?

I'd love some testimonies, rather than bible quotes. But if we are going to use the bible, how do we understand the book of Job? I find the story of Job more and more the main pattern for our own Christian walk with God.

This could be posted on another thread to explain why I am almost officially "post-Charismatic".

If I'd read this question even a month ago, I doubt I'd give the same heartfelt answer... BUT

God has shown me so powerfully the last few weeks that the trials I have faced have not only been for my good, but they have caused me to learn to trust and rely on Him for everything. Some lessons are harder (and take longer - lol) than others! Especially for us, "I can do it myself" Christians.

My "Christian" husband abandoned me (I don't mean he just left), last year leaving me unemployed, no income and no transportation. I have been homeless, jobless and pretty darn bitter! God still took care of me. I've slept on couches and am currently staying (with my own room!) with friends. I don't have a penny to my name, BUT I am rich in all the ways that matter. Through my belief and hope in God through my savior Jesus, I have even begun praying for my husband and his mistress! Tell me that's not God at work! I am no longer afraid and I KNOW I can run to Jesus with anything! How freeing!

I am blessed... I'm going to live with Jesus one day!

 

[InnTee]

In my most difficult suffering, I didn't ask God to take it away -- just to comfort me. I didn't feel God's comfort, or indeed any divine presence at all. I was, and am, very disappointed, and wonder whether God (a) is real and (b) cares at all.

 

[Mr Sinclair]

Im my eperience suffering has made me emotionally, physically, as well as spiritually stronger.
Sure suffering aint fun. but with suffering growing with christ is way stronger.
Fasting make things really god fast i think

 

[Eschat]

I think I understand

 

[salamacum]

Suffering does strip out the arrogance and over-confidence. It should make you more empathetic and slow to judge or give offence.
Or worthy social gifts.
But I have met those who have become embittered. Also, I have met those who say they have forgiven other Christians who have, say, spiritually bullied them but at the same time are making darn sure that their paths never cross again.
All very much NOT God's best for them or the church they were in.

 

[Maggie893]

For me it isn't about whether suffering is a good or an evil. I do not believe it is an evil so therefore it must be a good.

I have realized that suffering is really a by-product of love. If you love something/someone and you lose them/it, you suffer.

Take the loss of a loved one. You love the person and they die. You miss them, you long for the times when they were here. You wouldn't suffer if you did not love them. If you did not love them it would be a meaningless occurrence.

The pain of a broken arm. You enjoy full function of your arm. You play baseball or type quickly which provides online enjoyment, you cook meals, you drive your car. You love being healthy and capable. When you break your arm, you lose that freedom, the function, the productivity, the health and absence of physical pain. If you were laying in a bed day in day out with pain coursing through your entire body, never able to lift your arm or care for yourself, you would have no love for your arm so if someone broke it, it would not phase you. It was already painful and useless, so there is no loss of love there.

Your house burns down. You love your home. Even if there are big bills attached, it provides comfort, safety. Your family pictures are in your home. Your memories are in your home. If you didn't love it, you wouldn't mind if it burned to the ground but it hurts because you do love it.


Suffering occurs when something/someone we love is damaged or destroyed.

Christ calls us to love Him. To reject the things of the world and focus on Him. He will never leave us. Never be damaged or destroyed. In Him there is no suffering.

We learn how to be more like Him when we love. His suffering was a by-product of His love for us; therefore it could not possibly be evil. When we love one another as He loves us, we will experience suffering but it will bring joy.

If you want to avoid suffering, love nothing. It's not a fulfilling life but there is no suffering. You will not become more like Christ but less like Christ. If you want a fulfilling life, love abundantly. Yes you will suffer but you will experience more of God through love than you can imagine.

 

[Eagle55]

This thread has been going on since 2006! Wow. I think it's something people will never lose interest in.

I have had much terrible suffering - but in the worst of it; I had never thought of getting out of it, or avoiding it, but only of getting through it.

God has spoken to me a lot during my darkest trials.

 

[Eagle55]

I remember at one point during some of my darkest hours, when I had bandages from my knees to the top of my head, and all the way around - I was such a mess, no one that knew me or loved me even recognized me when they first came to see me in the hospital. Now; years later, I am still heavily scarred and marred, and the reults of all that initial injury years ago cause the suffering to continue. I am never pain free, no matter what I do, and yet, I can honestly say that I am happy in Jesus.

So, is suffering good for us? Well; I think it sure can be - especially with Jesus in the picture; but what really makes it all so worthwhile, is atleast partially explained by the following text:

2Co 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2Co 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

...but this is right in my wheelhouse.

~Concerning Job~

I believe the entire purpose of Job's story is encapsulated in the following verses:

"My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes." - Job 42:5-6

ASW's Reader's Digest Condensed Commentary: When you consider God's confession of Job's "perfection" in Job 1:8, this is a very telling confession from Job concerning his relationship with God. I don't believe he would have seen God with his eyes without the suffering he endured.

Fun exercise - Consider this "perfect" man apparently had some pride issues as revealed in his monologues throughout the book of Job. Read Job 29 and count the personal pronouns (I, me, mine). It seems Job had a fairly elevated opinion of himself in the community (start with verse 7 and enjoy the ego-driven diatribe). Couple this observation with God's personal exchange with Job (Job 38-41) and it's not hard to draw the conclusion that Job had an "I" problem. Don't think it's a coincidence the words "Pride" and "Sin" are both centered around the letter "I".


~Concerning Suffering~

Yes, suffering CAN be an excellent attitude/character adjuster. It can also be the stimulus to thin the herd of wannabes. The modern attitude of God as a preventer of suffering simply does not line up with scriptures in either Testament.

There's a long list of scriptural examples that prove suffering is one of the many tools used by God to perfect his vessels of honor. In keeping with that analogy, it is impossible to make a clay vessel without heat; a common symbolic reference to trials and tribulations (suffering).

Paul admonished Timothy not to grow weary in well doing reminding him that "all who will live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution" (2 Timothy 3:12). Suffering was always an expected component of living the Christian life. After all, if Christ Himself couldn't avoid suffering, why should any of his followers assume a trial-free experience.

This was one of Peter's favorite subjects (1 Peter 3:14, 17; 1 Peter 4:15-19). He clearly drew a line of distinction between suffering as a Christian and suffering as an "evil doer". In short, it is the firey trials that act as both a litmus test to show us where we are in our walk with Christ as well as a potential curing agent for us as God's vessels. As always, the choice of how we respond to life's trials and tribulations is ours.

Just a few thoughts. Do with them what you will.

ASW

 

[saturnne]

And what kind of suffering is good for you?

When you feel like you're suffering, you're thrown into this chain of discovery of God's power, grace, and endless ether (I believe a single best word for this "thing" does not exist, so I tried my best) of love. For me (or maybe for many people for that matter), this takes place in the form of talking to myself. Today in the morning, I was in a very confined and trapped sort of mood because I had spent the whole day yesterday exploring Jesus's love and God's Will, but today I felt like my faith had dwindled. So I just let it go. I let my frustration flow out of my body. I was a little bit unreasonable, but that was how God wanted it. He wanted me to express this negative feeling. Once I started talking to myself, even criticizing God for being so transient, I immediately realized that I was lying. I immediately told myself: what are you doing, do you truly believe you're suffering, do you really think so, stuff like that. And God opened my eyes to the interconnectedness of the world and the absolute freedom I have in Him. I found myself reveling in an epiphany of God-like scale, a truth that was the absolute and ultimate truth, a fact.

My advice is to be mad, frustrated, and angry when you feel mad, frustrated, and angry. This way, God has the right time to reveal His full power to you so that he can tell you once again that he is in control of your life. This is why some kinds of suffering are good for you.

 

[Heavens]

Is suffering good for you?
Is this what "All things work togther for good" means for Christians.

Yes

What's been your experience? Has it been good for you emotionally, physically, as well as spiritually?

No, No and Yes lol.

Anybody damaged spiritually by suffering?

No, the opposite.

And what kind of suffering is good for you?

Trials where we are helpless.

How do we understand the book of Job? I find the story of Job more and more the main pattern for our own Christian walk with God.

For sure

 

[Caesarjbsquitti]

Suffering...bring us in tune with the way of Christ.

We must have a cross, and hopefully it teaches us to have compassion for our fellow man.

Tragically we Christians, don't....we don't have compassion for the 'jailed' for we believe he or she acts by themselves ignoring the power of the devil to bring to cause the actions that we judge as criminal.

There is a devil...he deceived Adam and Eve about The Tree of knowledge.

That is why the definition of half-truths is, or was incorrect.

I suggest you look it up on wikipedia, and if you get a chance to read, "The Jesus Christ Code' a research book designed to reveal to the world how Truth can Lie.

 

[salamacum]

Let's not be too blithe about suffering.
I know Christians whose ,mental processes and theology have been warped by suffering and disappointment. One woman I know continually wants to end it all (suicide, I mean)
She may even be the spiritually deepest Christian I know. But she's certainly not recognised as such. Asks 'Why' too often.

 

[LWB]

When clinging to a hot potato, I don't know if you could presume a therapeutic benefit to the burning sensation you feel, but it sure does encourage you to let it go.

 

[If Not For Grace]

I too resist the term "good for you"-but It might be necessary. MPO is that pain is inevitable, but that most suffering is opitional.

 

[Heavens]

Let's not be too blithe about suffering.
I know Christians whose ,mental processes and theology have been warped by suffering and disappointment. One woman I know continually wants to end it all (suicide, I mean)
She may even be the spiritually deepest Christian I know. But she's certainly not recognised as such. Asks 'Why' too often.

I'm curious to know how you might consider this woman to be a "spiritually deep christian" when asking "why too often" or contemplating "suicide" shows the opposite... explain? Thanks

Those who shrink away from God because of trials aren't fit for the Kingdom of God, according to Jesus, in His parable of the sower. That's how I see it anyway. Who of us doesn't "deserve" what we get? Who of us would say that we "don't deserve it" lol. A good question for Job to illustrate maybe.

 

[salamacum]

Haven't got time or the inclination to reveal too much of this woman's spiritual or emotional makeup.
But, she reads her bible, daily notes and the God channel etc. And she just wants God to take her. Now.
One thing. I think she has a bad faith-driven theology. By which I mean that it seems she accepts that it's all out of her control, one disaster after another, and believes its up to God to sort it out.
Example - has 4 serious items of debt in front of her. The biggy is about to get her car reclaimed. Money comes from a donation. All goes on the car. Immediate problem resolved, but no finance or budget to help deal with the other issues which now become more urgent. But it's God's debt. He will bring the cash. Well, He doesn't. Instead of accepting her suffering, she should well, take a grip and BUDGET.
God understands it is right for us to seek to avoid suffering. When unavoidable then a lesson is learned about what is really lasting and important in life.
Jesus and Paul avoided suffering when they were able. And presumably because in those situations God did not have a lesson for them!