Submissiveness by Choice

[Living4Him03]

I know God calls women to submit to their husbands and that husbands are supposed to love their wives as Christ loves the Church, and that when people get married it's two becoming one. But, I'm wondering if a woman really wanted to be submissive, as in obeying her husband and like serving him, would that be wrong? If she feels like this is right for her? Would God not honor that marriage because the husband and wife are not acting as equals?

 

[mina]

I want to submit to my husband when (and if) I get married. I don't want to be dirt under his feet, nor do I want to be his servant girl. I think that in marriage, it's about how much you can do for the other person (regardless if you are a man or awoman), not how much you can get for yourself. When (and if) I do get married I will want to do as much for my husband as I can because I would love him tremendously. Love is about serving the other person. And I wouldn't throw my desire to do that away on a chavanististic gorilla that was going to abuse that. I would hope that I would marry a Godly man that wants to do things for me as well. Not because I want something for myself only , but because love is about respect and I wouldn't want to marry someone that thought badly of me.

I also think it's important to recognize what kind of man you could submit to. It's important to get to know someone VERY VERY WELL before you marry them. Don't marry a jerk that puts you down and would be inclined to order you around. Don't marry out of desperation or because you are tired of being single. If it takes holding out for a wonderful man , then hold out for him! Dont' throw your pearls before swine! Marry a man that would be worth submitting to! Marry a man that is going to treat you like a daughter of the King for this is what y ou are! Marry a man that treats you so well and loves you so much that you are wild and crazy about submitting to him!!!! Anyway thats my take on submission. I think it's a lovely wonderful thing, and that it only works when the husband and the wife are truly trying to please God and honour God with their life and marriage.

 

[MusicMelOU]

I am willing to submit to my husband simply because that is what is commanded of us in the Bible. It seems like a crazy thought "who would want to submit to someone else!?", but we must remember that if we trust God for the right husband, then this man is going to be a man who will not abuse your submission to him by making you his doormat. Instead he is going to respect you, love you, take care of you, and so forth. Obeying him won't even be an issue that causes problems because, since your relationship will most likely hopefull God-centered, anything he may want you to obey is something from God. Think of it this way; obeying him is obeying God.

But, yes, you are still equal. You are asked to submit to him, but he is asked to take care of you and respect you and such. And by respect, that means seeing you as an equal. Since he sees you as an equal, and he has God in his life, you have nothing to worry about submitting to him because he has respect and love for you.

 

[Tenorvoice]

So far I see no problem in the answers given in the last few posts as to what the Bible says about women submitting to thier husbsands, but let me add a few things.

I am currently in a class that is covering this subject in full (and I mean detailed).

Lets look at what the Bible has to say: 1 Timothy 2:11-15 what Paul is saying here (which was inspired by God I might add) is that there has to be a structure for the Body of Christ to follow. Not that women are inferior but that they are uniquely superior in many ways. They are to be the influence behind men, the supporter of the men. This is wrote so that we can have balance in the Church. The men are to be the prayer leaders in the Church.

If you also look @ 1 Corinthians 11:3 you have the order of how the Church/home/and relationships are to be.

Christ is the HEAD (leader) of every man.
Man is the HEAD of a woman.
God is the Head of Christ.

now this is in the general since and NOT I repeat NOT the spiritual since. In the Spiritual since there is no difference between man and woman. they are equal heirs to the gracious gift of life. 1 Peter 3:7.

Ephesians 5:22-6:9
Wives are to submit to thier husbands
Husbands are to submit to thier wives
Children are to submit to thier parents
parents are submit to thier children
slaves are to submit to thier masters
masters are to submit to thier salves.

according to this we are all to submit to one another. the word submit used here has two diferent meanings for the wives to husbands-husbands to wives-children to parents it is humility (and is not even in the original text for the wives it is implied). The second meaning is to obey and that is for the servant to master/children to parents.

the wife is NOT a servent or a slave.

this principle was ordained by God back in Gen. 3:16
...Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

in other words we are to go in the opposite direction of society today.

and I personaly what to marry a Proverbs 31 type of woman!

peace be with all

(and this is not anywhere close to all that the Bible says about this subject)

 

[Living4Him03]

Thanks Tenorvoice for those verses! That has been helpful...I think that most churches (at least the one I was raised in) ignore all Scripture has to say about submission and the roles of husband and wife! Growing up, it was all about how the wife should submit and much less about husbands loving their wives! Let us know if you have any more info. on this topic, or pm me any links you might have or verses if you don't mind! Thanks!

 

[Tenorvoice]

I was reminded of this in sunday school today:

The only thing that we are "Free" to do is to follow God

There is NO liberty without limits without this there would be total anarchy

Imagine if there were no speed limits on the roads, no traffic laws or lights. Would you still be driving on the roads?? I know that I wouldn't be. Without structue in our lives we would go nowhere. When you where born you where born into sin and a slave to it and to the world. But, when you are born again you are no longer a slave to sin you are now a slave to the Lord God (no place I would rather be and never turning back).

peace be with all.

 

[Beauty4Ashes]

I want to submit to my husband when (and if) I get married. I don't want to be dirt under his feet, nor do I want to be his servant girl. I think that in marriage, it's about how much you can do for the other person (regardless if you are a man or awoman), not how much you can get for yourself. When (and if) I do get married I will want to do as much for my husband as I can because I would love him tremendously. Love is about serving the other person. And I wouldn't throw my desire to do that away on a chavanististic gorilla that was going to abuse that. I would hope that I would marry a Godly man that wants to do things for me as well. Not because I want something for myself only , but because love is about respect and I wouldn't want to marry someone that thought badly of me.

I also think it's important to recognize what kind of man you could submit to. It's important to get to know someone VERY VERY WELL before you marry them. Don't marry a jerk that puts you down and would be inclined to order you around. Don't marry out of desperation or because you are tired of being single. If it takes holding out for a wonderful man , then hold out for him! Dont' throw your pearls before swine! Marry a man that would be worth submitting to! Marry a man that is going to treat you like a daughter of the King for this is what y ou are! Marry a man that treats you so well and loves you so much that you are wild and crazy about submitting to him!!!! Anyway thats my take on submission. I think it's a lovely wonderful thing, and that it only works when the husband and the wife are truly trying to please God and honour God with their life and marriage.

Thanks for the awesome post Mina. That's just what I needed to read.

 

[*Miau*]

Ephesians 5:22-6:9
Wives are to submit to thier husbands
Husbands are to submit to thier wives
Children are to submit to thier parents
parents are submit to thier children
slaves are to submit to thier masters
masters are to submit to thier salves.

You have obviously not read this scripture before posting... if the scripture hadn't been so long I would have posted it - but here's the link http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=Eph+5%3A22+-+6%3A9&version=NIV
it says - amoung other things:
"22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything"
It does NOT tell the husbands to submit to their wives. But it tells them to LOVE them - it's not quite the same...
About the children it says:
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2"Honor your father and mother"
It does NOT tell the parents to submit to their children (which in my opinion sounds absolutely insane)
about the masters/slaves it says:
"5Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men"
It doesn't not tell the masters to submit to those who work for them - but to treat them nicely - it's not quite the same thing as submitting to them...

Please use the scripture correctly

Lets look at what the Bible has to say: 1 Timothy 2:11-15 what Paul is saying here (which was inspired by God I might add) is that there has to be a structure for the Body of Christ to follow. Not that women are inferior but that they are uniquely superior in many ways. They are to be the influence behind men, the supporter of the men. This is wrote so that we can have balance in the Church. The men are to be the prayer leaders in the Church.

Timothy 2:11 - 15: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[1] will be saved[2] through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. "
According to you this passage says that the woman should be the influence behind the man... According to Paulus women are to be silent. She's not allowed to teach nor to have authority over a man. if she mus be silent and respectful towards her husband, how can she possibly be the strong influence behind the man?? I don't see how you can get what you stated above out of this passage...
Again I ask you to use the scriptures correctly - or at least give ME an explanation for your statements..

 

[*Miau*]

I know God calls women to submit to their husbands...

yes - you're right, God does call us women to submit to our husbands - whether we like it or not. (I've had a hard time accepting it and I haven't quite come to terms with it yet - but I'm getting there - I still have objections and questions though!!)
Apparently it's a female virtue to be submissive to the husband, couse it is honouring God - as He told us to do so.

...I'm wondering if a woman really wanted to be submissive, as in obeying her husband and like serving him, would that be wrong?

I don't quite get what you are asking... of course it's not wrong . you've just said in the previous quote that that's what God's called us to do - so no - it's not wrong...

 

[Sketcher]

I hope all of you do marry someone who truly does love you as Christ loves the church. That is OUR responsibility as men, and we are going to like the job a lot more if our wives prefer a gentile word and prayer to influence us, rather than a nagging tounge and a frying pan.

 

[shania]

My beliefs are a bit different, but I completely respect everyone else's interpretations and comments here.

Christ was submissive to humanity when he died for us and gave no thought it his own needs but lived for our salvation.

So I believe that a husband should be submissive to his wife, as he is to love his wife as Christ loves the church. Christ showed submission and humbleness on many occasions -- including when he washed his disciples' feet, a humbling task that was often considered woman's work during biblical times.

But wives are not instructed to be like Christ for their husbands and they don't have a common role model to follow. So the bible tells wives very specifically to submit to their husbands. This makes the submission mutual -- mutual, but different at the same time.

 

[jeshohaia]

Well...this is an awsome subject. But 1st Peter also talks about submission. Here is what I got out of it. Wife submits. Husband treats her like a precious jewel in a field (where he buys the field just for the jewel). He also treats her like a princess. I am scared of contentious women. And they always ask me why men dont like them? I just tell them I dont know and try to change the subject.

If you are a wife and you find it hard to be submissive (we all are called to be submissive to someone) to her husband than just pray. All things are possiable with G-D.

 

[Tenorvoice]

I would suggest that everyone that has difficulty dealing with the submission between man and woman (husband and wife ) go to this site:
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/1944.HTM and http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/1945.HTM

and if you have a difficulty acepting it see Ephesisans 5:18

peace

 

[shania]

I agree with many things he says on the website, but not everything.

He focuses on the wife's role and says even if the husband isn't a good husband (like if he's an alcoholic for instance) then the wife should still be submissive.

This goes along with Christ's message about being submissive to one another, (even if the other doesn't treat you the same way). But I think it isn't responsible of him to focus on the wife's submissiveness without defining the role a husband should fulfill.

If the church spent just as much time defining a husband's role as it did the wive's (since these verses get so much more attention due to women's rights) then a lot of marriages would probably be closer to being Christ-like. A marriage goes two ways and both parties need to give their 100% and know what is expected of them. If men are not properly taught by the church on how a good husband should be then that role will be open to much interpretation.

Where the bible says woman was created to be man's helper HELPER (english translation) the original actual means partner, on an equal level. I will look for my reference and translation and post it at another time.

I believe husband and wife are to submit to one another, but they each have different roles and cover different responsibilities and territory in the marriage. (makes sense when you think about it because otherwise you'd always be butting heads and/or competing).

Proverbs 31 says a few interesting things: She looks for wool and flax and works with her hands in delight....she finds a field that's for sale and buys it. She's got earnings and she plans a vineyard..she makes linen garments and sells them..and supplies belts to the tradesmen.

I found it interesting to hear his interpretation. When I read this I see the proverbs woman as a working woman and even a business woman. She earns money, buys property, makes and sells clothing, and sells belts to tradesmen.

Jesus washed his disciples feet. I find this act quite symbolic since washing feet was a woman's job at the time.

If Jesus was invited to someone's home and saw a tired woman working hard to prepare a meal for him and make him feel comfortable chances are he would tell her to rest and not go to all that trouble.

I interpret Jesus' washing of the feet as the equivalent of a husband offering to wash the dishes, for example, as an act of love and service, since it is a job that women traditionally do.

I also don't agree with his theory that the reason why there is poverty and crime amongst some minority groups is because women have taken all of their jobs. He is really jumping to a lot of conclusions on that one.

One of the main reasons why the Nazis hated the Jews during pre-WWII times is because they resented the fact that imigrants were taking their jobs. I think his theory has a few holes in it and he is making a lot of assumptions that he hasn't backed up.

He also says that the wife lives for her husband and willingly falls submissively under the leadership of her husband and seeks how she can please him.

This should be true in any good marriage. The only reason why Christ came on earth was to live and die for us and teach us God's will for our lives. This is total submission on Christ's part, in a very different way than the wive's. All of Christ's actions, decisions, motivations, intentions and sacrifices were based on the well-being of humanity, it was completely selfless. So a husband, in turn, should already be living for his wife and doing everything with her in mind.

Biblical scholars always say that to understand the bible you need to look at it as a whole and not individual verses to identify the true meaning. So if a verses tells you one thing and the other 1000 pages give a different message or makes no mention of it, you know that you need to take another look at the verse.

This is the reason why some churches think that Paul's letters are meant to address the concerns of a specific church, as some messages appear there and don't in the rest of the bible. I'm refering to the part about women not speaking in the church. I know it's a sensitive issue - I'm mentioning it so those who don't agree with it don't think that some churches ignore or change the meaning of verses because they don't like what it says, as the website made reference to.

There are parts of the old and new testaments that make reference to a few women as prophets and teachers. (I will write the verses in another post, since I don't have them on hand.) This contradicts what Paul wrote about about women staying silent in the church, so some people think that the letters were not meant to be in the bible but were meant for the problems in that specific church. (The talking has to do with women sitting together and men seperatley. During the sermon the women would often talk amongst themselves when the sermon topic was particularily interesting, so Paul instructed them to stop talking during the service and wait until they got home to ask there husbands about it).

Since women weren't educated and often couldn't read, it was a big step up for women to be told to listen and learn quietly from the service, it was an encouragement for them to learn, insteading of chatting during the service as they liked to do.

 

[Tenorvoice]

I agree with many things he says on the website, but not everything.

He focuses on the wife's role and says even if the husband isn't a good husband (like if he's an alcoholic for instance) then the wife should still be submissive.

This goes along with Christ's message about being submissive to one another, (even if the other doesn't treat you the same way). But I think it isn't responsible of him to focus on the wife's submissiveness without defining the role a husband should fulfill.

He does if you look at his other sermons on the same topic :
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/1946.HTM and http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/1947.HTM

hope this helps

I know that they are long sorry but He is preaching from the word of God and is one of the most sound preachers that I have heard to date.

peace

 

[JPPT1974]

The husband is the head and brains and also usually the breadwinner of the house while the wife is the calm before the storm and also the heart and soul that keeps the family intact.

 

[Tenorvoice]

Never heard it put that way before

Very well put

peace

 

[jeepgirl1]

... I am scared of contentious women. And they always ask me why men dont like them? I just tell them I dont know and try to change the subject. ... .

What exactly do you mean by "contentious"? Are you referring to women who constantly pick fights or women who speak their minds and give their opinions? Do "Christian" men honestly want women who are simply going to agree and support any decision they make blindly and silently without contributing any original thought of their own?

Can anyone give any examples of how submission by the wife translates into real life situations? Does it extend to all aspects of the marriage, i.e. children, marriage bed, etc.

And why does there seem to be a greater emphasis by most churches on the submissiveness of wives as compared to the role of husbands? Just seems that many neglect this area.

TIA

 

[mina]

I think both men and women have brains and that no where in scripture does submissiveness have to do with stupidity. God doesn't give us brains and intelligence to not use them. A husband that recognizes his wife's intelligence and who considers her thoughts and who can share ideas freely with his wife and values her input is a good husband. Submissiveness in a marriage does not require a woman to forgo her brains. A good leader does not cancel out the wealth of intelligence that is on his team. Also I think a man should have some to do with being the heart of the home. Tenderness and a loving attitude towards his wife and children will help a home be better.