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sparow

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1 John 5:7
King James Version
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Of the Bibles I have only KJV and the NKJV say the three are one; most Bibles say: 1 John 5:7 (ASV)
7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

1 John 5:8-9 (ASV)
8 For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for the witness of God is this, that he hath borne witness concerning his Son.

It is the witness or testimony that is singular; God is plural, at least two. possibly without number.
 
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Devin Hammond

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Yeah I studied that issue once but it’s been a long time. I think it’s because the KJV used a different text in translation. I’ve heard that the other texts are corrupted.

edit: Textus Receptus - Wikipedia
 
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hedrick

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Please don't use this passage. It wasn't in the original text. Nor was it the basis for the discussions when the doctrine was created.
 
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Devin Hammond

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Please don't use this passage. It wasn't in the original text. Nor was it the basis for the discussions when the doctrine was created.

Actually yes it is found in some manuscripts.
 
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chad kincham

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Who is the Son of God but God and part of the Trinity? I don’t think that you are understanding what Son of God means and his identity as Son. Claiming to be the Son of God is the same as claiming to be God. John 10:30-36

You didn’t read my first post, apparently.

I said it’s clear that Jesus is God the Logos, and the trinity is a fact, but scripture only requires faith that Jesus is Gods son to be saved.

When Jesus asked Peter who he thought Jesus was, he said the Messiah, the SON of God - and Jesus commended him for it.
 
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Devin Hammond

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Evidently you didn’t understand my previous post.
 
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chad kincham

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Jesus.clearly says belief in Gods son is required for salvation - John 3. Nowhere there does He require faith that He is God, to be saved.

It’s ridiculous to go beyond what Jesus Himself said is necessary to believe.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God So Loved the World

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Nowhere there did Jesus say we must believe He is God to be saved.

Or here:

1john 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the SON to be the Saviour of the world.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
 
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Clare73

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Jesus.clearly says belief in Gods son is required for salvation - John 3. Nowhere there does He require faith that He is God, to be saved.
That is true.

But our spiritual health depends on how we habitually think of Christ, how we appropriate him.
An inadequate view of Christ can diminish our spiritual health.
.
 
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disciple Clint

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I have also heard it compared to ice water and steam but I would not recommend using that example since it is modalism aka sabellianism
 
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GooFYone

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That is such great news that you don’t want to stir up arguments.

God is the Father. Jesus is Gods spoken word. The Holy Spirit is Gods Spirit.
 
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Tsquared

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Thank-you for supplying this additional information, Devin! It is very neat to see that this doctrine was around early on through these quotes! Yes, I too have heard people trying to say that it didn't come about until Nicea; so this is nice evidence to have! Blessings to you.
 
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Tsquared

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This has been so helpful! Thank-you for posting this information and sharing your understanding of the Trinity with me. What you say is so true, I'm beginning to see how analogies fall short in explaining the Trinity 100% accurately. Blessings!
 
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Tsquared

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Thank-you to everyone who has helped me thus far! I really do appreciate you all taking the time to share your views and resources with me! I have went ahead and ordered some of the books that were mentioned throughout the thread. I am thankful that I am beginning to understand this key doctrine of the church. Although I was taught to believe that the Trinity was not Biblical, I do see that it is certainly supported throughout the Scriptures; I am thankful that the Holy Spirit has began revealing this to me!

Again, my intention was never to stir up any debate among anyone, I am sincerely just trying to better grasp the doctrine of the Trinity. Blessings to each of you who took time out of your day to respond.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I find the greatest resource God gave on this subject is each other.

Jesus prayed to the Father (John 17) saying may they be one as we are, I in you and you in me.
 
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chad kincham

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The modalist Jesus on the cross: Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?
 
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disciple Clint

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The modalist Jesus on the cross: Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?
are you familiar with Psalm 22?
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46, KJV). This cry is a fulfillment of Psalm 22:1, one of many parallels between that psalm and the specific events of the crucifixion. It is difficult to understand in what sense Jesus was “forsaken” by God. It is certain that God approved His work. It is certain that Jesus was innocent. He had done nothing to forfeit the favor of God. As God’s own Son—holy, harmless, undefiled, and obedient—God still loved Him. In none of these senses could God have forsaken Him. Why did Jesus say, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" | GotQuestions.org
 
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The Liturgist

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The Eastern Orthodox include a modified version of it, with the filioque omitted, as an appendix to various prayerbooks; in the English language the Jordanville Psalter (A Psalter for Prayer, Holy Trinity Monastery Press, Jordanville, New York) includes this version. The Orthodox do not however recite it liturgically.
 
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The Liturgist

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There is an Orthodox version of the Athanasian creed in the Jordanville Psalter, immediately following the Preface. You can get this Psalter on Kindle for relatively little money by the standards of Orthodox prayer books, and it is particularly well regarded, as it is the highly chant-able Coverdale Psalter (used in Anglican worship even after the completion of the KJV), modified to follow the Septuagint. It is especially popular in Slavonic and Antiochian churches, and the OCA (Greek churches tend to like the Boston Psalter from Holy Transfiguration Monastery).

However it is true that the Athanasian Creed is not recited liturgically in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Although for that matter, neither is the Book of Revelations (although the latter is read extra-liturgically on Mount Athos on Holy Saturday, and the Coptic Orthodox do read the Apocalypse liturgically in between the Holy Saturday and Paschal Vigil services).

As far as the Apostle’s Creed is concerned, I’ve never met any Orthodox theologian familiar with it who was opposed to it as being somehow unorthodox; rather it is just simply not a part of the received liturgical patrimony of the Eastern churches, whereas it is a part of the western liturgical heritage.
 
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GooFYone

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It is quite easy to understand in Gods understanding my friend. God bless.
Jesus(Gods Word) became sin, so God forsakes sin. God becomes all.

God does not require more, because God isn’t more. God is all!
 
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