Studying Isaiah - Any Suggestions?

[Ecclectic79]

I'm going back through Isaiah right now because, interpratively, it was one of the most difficult reads for me in the bible - particularly so around the mid point.

Isaiah's writing/speaking style tends to decouple his narrative from grounding or contextual elements. In that sense his prose free-float in a lot of places and each verse starts reading like its own open and closed topic without clear connection to verse before or after; kind of like what you see in proverbs albeit proverbs is often meant to be read that way while Isaiah is contiguous prophecy.

I was wondering if anyone knows of a good book or study source online that helps pin his writings down to their context? For as much as he's cited in the NT I know its an incredibly important book, possibly even the most important of the OT, thus I want to treat it with its proper respect rather than skimming and having a lot of it just fall flat.

 

[Unix]

Not to discourage You, but overviews and study of passages can as far as I know best be done through books. I'm working through commentaries correcting the text of the RSV(-2CE?) and the Jerusalem Bible, with 7:14 from the 1970 NAB 1st Edition. In case You want to know which commentaries, ask! They are expensive though. This is all I can say as I don't know of such a site.

 

[ebedmelech]

My suggestion would be to study it chronologically. Even before you go to any commentary.

It will help you greatly because you will really get the full picture.

Let me suggest this. Get a chronological bible (if you don't have one), and read Isaiah chronologically making your own personal notes.

After you do that, then you might want to make use of commentary. Doing that...I think you'll get a feel for if you've understood Isaiah from your reading, without commentary. The commentary will enhance what you already understand.

Bible Study Tools is a great site for study and resources! Give it a look at this link:

Bible Study Tools Online – Verses, Commentaries, Concordances, Verses, Parallel Versions

You will have access to all types of resources, and not only that you can maintain your study in your own personal "my bible" section and export it to Microsoft Word on your own computer!

Hope that helps.

 

[Ecclectic79]

TY.

I might still give it a once through first but I'll definitely reread it with additional resources. As much as I don't want to press another person's interpretation down on it there's just too much so I've gotta start somewhere.

 

[shturt678]

Isaiah is one of my favorite O.T. books. Bump into Isaiah in the N.T. appropriations from both, the inferior LXX and the Hebrew text, not many quotations if I recall correctly. I would compare the Catholic interpretations to my ol' right hand interpreter, Keil and Delitzsch Commentary available on-line, use to be?

Where the N.T. writers appropriated various lines or verses from Isaiah, they shed much more light elaborating, correcting the inferior LXX text, or fitting their various situations. My point use Isaiah in conjunction with the N.T. passages that appropriate along with Keil and Delitzsch and your on your way. Sorry late, hope this helps.

 

[he-man]

I was wondering if anyone knows of a good book or study source online that helps pin his writings down to their context? For as much as he's cited in the NT I know its an incredibly important book, possibly even the most important of the OT, thus I want to treat it with its proper respect rather than skimming and having a lot of it just fall flat.

My suggestion is that you read the whole Bible and that will help to fill in the gaps.
Would you pick up a book about chess and start in the middle and expect to learn what a pawn does?
You must read the Bible in prospective. Start with a reading from each chapter of the OT along with a reading from the NT. Here is an example for you:
You would of course start in January with Gen Chapters 1,2; Psa 1,2; Mat 1,2 and so on which would lead you to:

May 12: Deut Chapter 29; Isa Chapter 1; Acts 27; etc
July 11: 1 Sam Chapter 24; Jeremiah 1; Mat 12
September 15: 2Kings 1, 2; Ezek 1, 2; Cor 1,2
October 23: 2 Chron 20; Dan 1; John 19

By reading in a systematic order from each phase of the Bible the picture becomes clearer especially if you can see how Isa Chapter 1; Jeremiah 1; Ezek 1, 2; and Dan 1; are all keys to understanding Isaiah and the Revelations of the Bible .

I have a daily chart if you wish to have a copy.

 

[Ecclectic79]

My suggestion is that you read the whole Bible and that will help to fill in the gaps. Would you pick up a book about chess and start in the middle and expect to learn what a pawn does?

I've already read the KJV cover to cover - Genesis to Revelations, took copious notes on the OT. Some people make claims that Jeremiah and Ezekiel are the hardest to understand (apocrypha generally left in their own category), I actually find the prose sections of Isaiah the most challenging because of the thinness of anchor points.

 

[he-man]

I've already read the KJV cover to cover - Genesis to Revelations, took copious notes on the OT. Some people make claims that Jeremiah and Ezekiel are the hardest to understand (apocrypha generally left in their own category), I actually find the prose sections of Isaiah the most challenging because of the thinness of anchor points.

What verse, chapter are you concerned about or what exactly aew the sections of Isaiah you find the most challenging?
Try reading it in the order I gave to you and you will begin to see how it all fits together!.

Exo 10:19 And the LORD turned a mighty strong west wind, which took away the locusts, and cast them into the Red sea; there remained not one locust in all the coasts of Egypt.

Num 21:14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,

Deu_11:4 And what he did unto the army of Egypt, unto their horses, and to their chariots; how he made the water of the Red sea to overflow them as they pursued after you, and how the LORD hath destroyed them unto this day;

Jos_4:23 For the LORD your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until ye were passed over, as the LORD your God did to the Red sea, which he dried up from before us, until we were gone over:

Jdg 11:16 But when Israel came up from Egypt, and walked through the wilderness unto the Red sea, and came to Kadesh;

Psa_136:15 But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Act_7:36 He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.

Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 

[Ecclectic79]

The challenges are more the writing style of the prose. Very short sentences, complete topics built mostly on pronouns, so a lot of general verbiage with few contextual anchor bolts (albeit some symbolic which you have to know what analogy or symbol he's referencing).

I noticed that, chapter-wise, the upper 20's through early/mid 30's get tricky. By the late 30's he's talking about Sennacherib and Hezekiah which gets quite clear (rerun really after reading Kings/Chronicles) and after that its on to those prose again. He could be talking about one thing one moment, all of a sudden be talking about the glorious return of Christ and the millennial reign but do so in a way where you can't tell when one topic of his time or near-field prophecy stopped and conversation on millenial reign began. Punishment of Babylon and Assyria, millennial reign, rebuilding of Jerusalem in his times, all weave in and out and with all the pronouns it can be acrobatic to keep track of.

 

[he-man]

The challenges are more the writing style of the prose. Very short sentences, complete topics built mostly on pronouns, so a lot of general verbiage with few contextual anchor bolts (albeit some symbolic which you have to know what analogy or symbol he's referencing).

Isaiah means "Jehovah is salvation".ישעיה
ysha‛yâhû There are 3 divisions, First Chapters 1-35 deals with similar foretelling the final overthrow of Babylon by the Medes and the descriptions of a Messianic King,

Secondly Chapters 36-39 the Historical stories from 2Kings 18:13-20, except for the Song of Hezekiah,

Thirdly, Chapters 40-66 is the future predictions of Babylon and it's downfall and Cyrus to deliver God's people and restore the temple. Theologically, it reproves the sins of the Jews and other nations, and foreshadows the coming of Christ.

So he anticipates that God will execute His judgements on all that exalts itself in arrogance on earth. Although all human forces may combine against God, Isaiah's "faith" assures that God's protection will overcome all nations that fight against Him. See Ez 37:4-10 The joyful arrival at Zion predict the peaceful happiness once again in their future Land of Promise.

The poem of the "Servant of Jehovah" stands out as so personal it proclaims the predictions of the Messiah for he is to reveal the "True God" to the Gentiles and his death endured for the sins of the heathen.

Isa 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

Summed up by Wellhausen, "There is no God but Jehovah and Christ as His prophet"!

 

[shturt678]

Isaiah means "Jehovah is salvation".ישעיה
ysha‛yâhû There are 3 divisions, First Chapters 1-35 deals with similar foretelling the final overthrow of Babylon by the Medes and the descriptions of a Messianic King,

Secondly Chapters 36-39 the Historical stories from 2Kings 18:13-20, except for the Song of Hezekiah,

Thirdly, Chapters 40-66 is the future predictions of Babylon and it's downfall and Cyrus to deliver God's people and restore the temple. Theologically, it reproves the sins of the Jews and other nations, and foreshadows the coming of Christ.

So he anticipates that God will execute His judgements on all that exalts itself in arrogance on earth. Although all human forces may combine against God, Isaiah's "faith" assures that God's protection will overcome all nations that fight against Him. See Ez 37:4-10 The joyful arrival at Zion predict the peaceful happiness once again in their future Land of Promise.

The poem of the "Servant of Jehovah" stands out as so personal it proclaims the predictions of the Messiah for he is to reveal the "True God" to the Gentiles and his death endured for the sins of the heathen.

Isa 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

Summed up by Wellhausen, "There is no God but Jehovah and Christ as His prophet"!

The ol' Mr. Julius Wellhausen trick my friend he-man. Shame on your words, not you personally of course. Been decades, but wow, did the thunderous silence ring loudly in my ears with multiple red flags that were blinding me .... wonder why?

We had the ol' "Redactor" (R) academics and do remember quite a bit; more importantly: Now I can see how you got so turned around, going the wrong way on the same trail as me ... need you to get turned around again by the God-man Jesus. Now working with you, this concept, with Julius', presents an imposing array of arguments ... work with me and we'll get you turned around regarding the personal name "Jesus" and his official title "the Christ." as follows, which you and Mr. Wellhausen missed.

So on the O.T. level "Elohim" is the generic name for God from the root which signifies "to fear" or "reverence." Therefore Elohim is the divine being whose power and attributes inspire mortals with due fear. "Jehovah," more correctly written "Yahweh," signifies the Abiding, Changeless, and Eternal One, and therefore describes God as the one true to His covenant relationship in reference to His people. See, I knew God would not only get you turned around but even put on the correct path.

Since you no doubt are going the correct direction now, this approach to the problem of the divine names is by no means in conflict with Exod.6:3: "I appeared unto Abraham,...." and Exod.3:2 where pre-Incarnate God-man Jesus (loosely but accurately speaking) appeared to Moses. Now we are walking the same path together.

 

[he-man]

The ol' Mr. Julius Wellhausen trick my friend he-man. Shame on your words, not you personally of course. Been decades, but wow, did the thunderous silence ring loudly in my ears with multiple red flags that were blinding me .... wonder why? So on the O.T. level "Elohim" is the generic name for God from the root which signifies "to fear" or "reverence."

Fear Where did that come from?

Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and ra ha (discern) between the Tzedek (righteous) and the rasha (wicked,) between him that serveth God [Elohim H430] and him that serveth him not.

Elohim is a grammatically singular or plural noun for "god" or "gods" in both modern and ancient Hebrew language. When used with singular verbs and adjectives elohim is usually singular, "god" or especially, the God.

When used with plural verbs and adjectives elohim is usually plural, "gods" or "powers". It is generally thought that Elohim is a formation from eloah, the latter being an expanded form of the Northwest Semitic noun il (, ʾēl ).

It is usually translated as "God" in the Hebrew Bible, referring with singular verbs both to the one God of Israel, and also in a few examples to other singular pagan deities.
The word Elohim is the plural of El (or possibly Eloah) and is the first name of God given in the Old Testament: “In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth, (Gen. 1:1).

“The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking – it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient Semitic language. The masculine plural ending does not mean “gods” when referring to the true God of Israel, since the name is mainly used with singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular (e.g. see Gen. 1:26).”

The form of the word Elohim, with the ending -im, is plural and masculine, but the construction is usually singular, i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the Hebrew god, but reverts to its normal plural when used of heathen divinities (Psalms 96:5; 97:7).

There are many theories as to why the word is plural: The choice of the word for God varies in the Hebrew Bible. Some scholars view these variations as evidence of different source texts, the "documentary hypothesis." According to the proponents of this theory, Elohim is consistently used in texts that reflect the early northern traditions of the Kingdom of Israel, whereas Yahweh (Jehovah) is consistently used in texts that derive from the early southern traditions of the Kingdom of Judah and Jerusalem.

Hence, higher criticism has found it useful to distinguish between "E" traditions and "J" traditions, which they see as reflective of multiple sources and multiple authors for Genesis.

See also the JEDP theory for extension of the documentary hypothesis to the idea of multiple sources and authorship for the entire Pentateuch.

The JEDP theory seeks to understand the authorship of the Pentateuch in light of the Documentary Hypothesis. This view believes that the Pentateuch represents the conflation of four different sources rather than the work of primarily one author, traditionally Moses.

The results of Source Criticism first proposed two authors (or sources) for the Pentateuch supposedly distinguishable by the use of the terms Yahweh and Elohim. Two additional sources were later proposed as P for Priestly, and D for Deuteronomic resulting in the JEDP theory of authorship, most notably associated with German scholar Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918).
http://www.theopedia.com/Elohim

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker (aw-saw') is thine husband; the Jehovah of hosts is His name; and thy Revenger the Holy One of Israel; The God (elohim) of the whole earth shall He be called.

Elohim, God [Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary]

 

[shturt678]

As usual my friend he-man, I thank you for your refute as lucid, clear, and to the point. Think my age catching up with me .... going to take some time to run your rebuttal through the fire, the Scriptures, and thank you for your patience and caring.

 

[shturt678]

Hey, had some ol' notes, can cut through the chase. Regarding "fear" with elohim As you and I both realize the Context rules grammar. The view that the three Hebrew terms, i.e., el eloah, and elohim comes from one root, your not saying this, can be ruled out contextually hence let's move to yours and my view: Your school: Holding, not wanting to put words into your mouth so open for correction of course, to deriving el from the root wl (meaning "strong"). My school: elohim derived from the Arabic root ilh, together with eloch, that root meaning "to fear," or "to reverence." From my ol' notes .... now let's eyeball this contextually beginning with Gen.22:12, "...I know that thou fearest God,..."

Walking on the same trail with you, don't you feel that God, Himself, draws the conclusion as to what Abe's act means: "I know that thou fearest God." Wouldn't the acme of true fear, i.e., reverence, of God consists in complete subjection to His sovereign will? I don't remember where Abe feared God before this passage, but feel this passage good enough to put us both on the same trail.

Even had to resurrect my ol' Hebrew tools .... Here the mode of expression, besides, is quite emphatic: "that a fearer of God thou," the normal use of the participle for emphasis, yere' 'elohim, and the participle appears in the construct state (all Hebrew to me, LOL with you). Want to get back to the thread's theme hence end point: It, therefore contextually, conceives of elohim as the one who by His nature and His works rouses man's fear and reverence. Would like to cover more ground with you but have to let things go for now. Again, thank you for your patience. Join me on my path, not so many rocks and sticks to trip over.

 

[shturt678]

Hey, had some ol' notes, can cut through the chase. Regarding "fear" with elohim As you and I both realize the Context rules grammar. The view that the three Hebrew terms, i.e., el eloah, and elohim comes from one root, your not saying this, can be ruled out contextually hence let's move to yours and my view: Your school: Holding, not wanting to put words into your mouth so open for correction of course, to deriving el from the root wl (meaning "strong"). My school: elohim derived from the Arabic root ilh, together with eloch, that root meaning "to fear," or "to reverence." From my ol' notes .... now let's eyeball this contextually beginning with Gen.22:12, "...I know that thou fearest God,..."

Walking on the same trail with you, don't you feel that God, Himself, draws the conclusion as to what Abe's act means: "I know that thou fearest God." Wouldn't the acme of true fear, i.e., reverence, of God consists in complete subjection to His sovereign will? I don't remember where Abe feared God before this passage, but feel this passage good enough to put us both on the same trail.

Even had to resurrect my ol' Hebrew tools .... Here the mode of expression, besides, is quite emphatic: "that a fearer of God thou," the normal use of the participle for emphasis, yere' 'elohim, and the participle appears in the construct state (all Hebrew to me, LOL with you). Want to get back to the thread's theme hence end point: It, therefore contextually, conceives of elohim as the one who by His nature and His works rouses man's fear and reverence. Would like to cover more ground with you but have to let things go for now. Again, thank you for your patience. Join me on my path, not so many rocks and sticks to trip over.

 

[pshun2404]

I'm going back through Isaiah right now because, interpratively, it was one of the most difficult reads for me in the bible - particularly so around the mid point.

Isaiah's writing/speaking style tends to decouple his narrative from grounding or contextual elements. In that sense his prose free-float in a lot of places and each verse starts reading like its own open and closed topic without clear connection to verse before or after; kind of like what you see in proverbs albeit proverbs is often meant to be read that way while Isaiah is contiguous prophecy.

I was wondering if anyone knows of a good book or study source online that helps pin his writings down to their context? For as much as he's cited in the NT I know its an incredibly important book, possibly even the most important of the OT, thus I want to treat it with its proper respect rather than skimming and having a lot of it just fall flat.

you must not be a writer. Isaiah wrote over the lifetimes of four kings not all at once. Some here then another vision there then a revelation here and a message to the people there as needed and so on. As a person who writes daily (for many years) I can tell you

a) my writing style varies
b) the genre changes according to my need or interest
c) the subject matter differs as the need to address different things arises, and so on

This should not confuse you if you are rightly dividing the word of truth...

Paul

 

[Ecclectic79]

you must not be a writer. Isaiah wrote over the lifetimes of four kings not all at once. Some here then another vision there then a revelation here and a message to the people there as needed and so on. As a person who writes daily (for many years) I can tell you

a) my writing style varies
b) the genre changes according to my need or interest
c) the subject matter differs as the need to address different things arises, and so on

This should not confuse you if you are rightly dividing the word of truth...

Paul

If all that were true shouldn't I have these problems with the whole bible?

 

[he-man]

Hey, had some ol' notes, can cut through the chase. Regarding "fear" with elohim As you and I both realize the Context rules grammar. The view that the three Hebrew terms, i.e., el eloah, and elohim comes from one root, your not saying this, can be ruled out contextually hence let's move to yours and my view: Your school: Holding, not wanting to put words into your mouth so open for correction of course, to deriving el from the root wl (meaning "strong"). My school: elohim derived from the Arabic root ilh, together with eloch, that root meaning "to fear," or "to reverence."

You are a very kind person and one who carefully listens.

The view that the three Hebrew terms [i.e., ‘el, ‘eloah, and ‘elohim] come from one root is much disputed and a final verdict is lacking. Some hold that the two are distinct, deriving ‘el from the root ‘wl ([meaning] strong). Others see ‘elohim derived from the root ‘ilh, together with ‘eloah, that root meaning “fear.”

Still others hold that both ‘el and ‘elohim come from ‘eloah…More probable is the view that ‘elohim come from ‘eloah as a unique development of Hebrew Scripture.
("Christian Distinctives: The Trinity(II)," pg. 41

El was the original and common word for “god” or “deity” in the ancient Near East. Later, the Israelites developed the word Eloah and its plural, Elohim, based on Basically, “el” is “a singular title translated either as ‘God` or ‘a god.’” ("Hebrew, Early Judaic, and Ealry Christian Thought," Roger D. Cook).

In Hebrew, El is a noun singular and masculine in form, and is the most common word for “god” in the Semitic languages. It appears in the Old Testament a total of 245 times in 21 different books with Psalms, Job, and Isaiah having the highest frequencies of 78, 57, and 23 occurrences respectively.

Note that El does not have the literal meaning of “Almighty” because the Hebrew word for “Almighty” is “shadday” (Strong’s #7706). In fact, Shadday is used in conjunction with El (i.e., El Shadday) to form the term/title “God Almighty.” My next source is The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon (BDB) which is probably the most popular and accepted Hebrew—English Lexicon.
English Translation King James Version God / God’s 213 (86.9%)
New American Standard 206 (84.1%)

In the ancient Near East it [El] was the most widespread word for “god.” (The Complete Word Study Old Testament, pg. 2300)
This term [El] was the common general designation of a deity in the ancient Near East.
(Vines Expeditionary Dictionary of Biblical Words, pg. 96)

Evidence for the use of 'el as a personal name is found in Israel and other neighboring cultures. ’El is recognized as a personal name for God in Israel, Canaan, Phoenicia. Mark Smith [an authority on Hebrew, Canaanite, and other early Semitic cultures] claims that "the original god of Israel was El" [Smith, "The Early History of God, Yahweh and the Other Ancient Deities in Ancient Israel," pg.7]. The remnants of the tradition of the use of 'el' as a personal name is found in such names as Samuel, Bethel, Israel, Peniel, etc.
("Hebrew, Early Judaic, and Ealry Christian Thought," Roger D. Cook)

Yep, El was used by the Israelites as a name for God in Israel. In fact, Mark Smith, an expert in early Semitic cultures, claims that “the original god of Israel was El.” This makes sense Yahweh (YHWH), the name for God, was not revealed to man until the time of Moses. Before that time, the Old Testament indicates that God revealed himself as “God Almighty” (El Shadday) – Exodus 6:2-3 reads “ And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty [El Shadday], but by my name JEHOVAH [YHWH] was I not known to them” (KJV).

Thus the expression “God, the God of Israel” identified the specific activities of Israel’s God.
(Vines Expeditionary Dictionary of Biblical Words, pg. 96)

Two prominent examples are El Elyon (God Most High) and El Shadday (God Almighty). As you can see, these accompanying words clearly “identify the nature and functions” of God.
El is used without accompanying words is Job where it is used to indicate the “true God.”
This Hebrew word name for “God” [‘eloah] corresponds to the Aramaic ‘elah and the Ugaritic “il” (or, if denoting a goddess, “ilt”). The origin of this term [Eloah] is unknown, and it is used rarely in Scripture as a designation of deity.
(Vines Expeditionary Dictionary of Biblical Words, pg. 97)

This term for God [‘eloah] was usually and clearly used for Israel’s God, the true God. This is evident from the fact that the Levites in the postexilic period used the term in quoting the descriptive revelations of God given in Ex. 34:6-7
The Hebrew Words "El", "Elim", "Eloah", and "Elohim" & The Greek Word "Theos"