Student booted from school after refusing to recite Pledge of Allegiance

[Autumnleaf]

Ummm.. because it's the people who pay for education...-- nobody is giving our kids a free education- and people shouldn't be forced to pay for the privilige of being non thinking robots.

If a child refuses to be loyal to their/my country at a young age I don't want my property taxes used to educate them. Lack of loyalty is what got some Brits blown to bits by educated British citizens who had no loyalty to Britain a few years back.

 

[comana]

If a child refuses to be loyal to their/my country at a young age I don't want my property taxes used to educate them. Lack of loyalty is what got some Brits blown to bits by educated British citizens who had no loyalty to Britain a few years back.

The pledge does not equal loyalty.

 

[flicka]

If a child refuses to be loyal to their/my country at a young age I don't want my property taxes used to educate them. Lack of loyalty is what got some Brits blown to bits by educated British citizens who had no loyalty to Britain a few years back.

That's too bad because your property taxes are going to do exactly that whether you like it or not. I never said it when I was younger. My kids don't say it and they are in public school. Whatcha gunna do?

 

[fuzzymel]

If a child refuses to be loyal to their/my country at a young age I don't want my property taxes used to educate them. Lack of loyalty is what got some Brits blown to bits by educated British citizens who had no loyalty to Britain a few years back.

So pledging to a flag or something similar would stop attacks would it?

 

[keith99]

Rediculous if true. I don't see any compelling reason to force someone to pledge allegiance to the flag. You pledge allegiance out of your own sense of duty, by your own free-will and with full knowlege that you are in fact swearing an oath. Otherwise your pledge is disingenuous and that makes you a hypocrite.

In my younger years we had a student in our class who's religious beliefs prohibited him from swearing an oath. He still rose during the pledge out of respect for the others but he did not say the pledge. I wouldn't characterize him as unpatriotic in any sense of the word. And actually we were the ones who were just going through the motions, doing what we were told just because.

Most ethical systems discount oaths given under duress. But having minors take an oath under duress often without any understanding that they are even taking an oath is exactly what is going on here.

The more I think about it the more I think thjis process has major problems.

 

[clarksided]

I never understand how anyone found pledging to the flag anything other than funny or creepy.

 

[The Nihilist]

If a child refuses to be loyal to their/my country at a young age I don't want my property taxes used to educate them. Lack of loyalty is what got some Brits blown to bits by educated British citizens who had no loyalty to Britain a few years back.

Life is tough. Restricting someone's access to government services for refusing to say the pledge is a de facto violation of the first amendment.

 

[OutsideNormal]

If a child refuses to be loyal to their/my country at a young age I don't want my property taxes used to educate them. Lack of loyalty is what got some Brits blown to bits by educated British citizens who had no loyalty to Britain a few years back.

I seem to remember another group of British subjects who weren't loyal. We celebrate their actions every July 4th.



The pledge is just words, and the requirement that students mindlessly recite it daily is no indication of their current or future loyalty to this nation. I will never say it because I won't pledge my loyalty to any temporal government. Governments are temporary entities that often stray far a field of their founding principals. The principals that this nation was founded on, on the other hand are something that I will pledge myself to.

 

[Lockguy3000]

A public high school student's refusal to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance got her booted from class in Hamilton County until a lawyer explained that her actions are religious.

Eighteen-year-old Tyner Academy senior Quinesha Garrett was removed this week from daytime classes and ordered to night school, where the pledge is not recited.

I don't see a problem with a student not reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
However IMHO, she should stand out of respect.

 

[Lockguy3000]

Agreed, especially when I don't agree with the way the country is going and don't see any change taking place any time soon. I will be personally loyal to what the country was founded one which seems to have been lost, but I will not pledge loyalty to something that has drifted so far away from what it promised to be in the beginning, to the ideals it was founded upon. I think my pledges are better spent elsewhere and I will instead honor the memory of what America began as.

We are pledging allegiance to our country, not the politicians running it.

 

[flicka]

I don't see a problem with a student not reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
However IMHO, she should stand out of respect.

That would be nice but it's not a serious issue if she doesn't. Many people can't stand up/sit down on command without difficulty so overlooking this shouldn't be a problem for anyone. I can't think of any good reason to question why someone isn't standing that isn't prying, and the only reason to make an issue of it is becasue someone want to exercise control over someone else. In other words...someone here wanted to "get even" for something they considered a personal slight.

 

[Verv]

No one should be forced to do anything against their will in order to receive government services.

It would say far more about the government to let anyone go to school and even despise the government -- then it is people biting the hand that feeds them. Whereas, when you kick someone out who does that you work to legitimize their cause, make them into the martyrs they want to be.

Idiots should be treated by a rolling of the eyes and not some actual reaction.

Actually reacting to them empowers them.

 

[nitecrawlur]

I'm a little baffled by this.

Must you recite the pledge of allegiance in order to qualify for an education? Should that be so?

There's no such thing over here in the UK. The teachers would be rather embarrased to enforce it and the kids would just muck about through the entire thing. I would say good for them if they did. Who is anyone else to tell you who to swear allegiance to?

Well, from what I understand you aren't required to recite it, but out of respect for the country that is providing the education (in most cases a free education) you should at least stand up for it.

It's almost comunistic to force someone to do such a thing.

 

[Morcova]

If you won't pledge to your country why should your country give you a free education?

The founders would be rolling over in their graves if they knew they fought for a form of government where one day instead of the government making pledges to the people, it's the people making pledges to the government.

Too many people seem to forget that the government was never meant to be the boss of the people... the people were meant to be the boss of the government.

 

[variant]

The Supreme Court ruled that the state doesn’t have the right to compel speech from anyone, and that they can object for religious reasons or otherwise.

Freedom to speak is freedom not to speak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

If they actually kicked the student out because she woulden't SAY the pleadge she should sue the school.

The fact that the student woulden't stand up was the only issue they could act on:

A public high school student's refusal to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance got her booted from class in Hamilton County until a lawyer explained that her actions are religious

If this is the case, it means that the article is misleadingly titled.

 

[keith99]

I seem to remember another group of British subjects who weren't loyal. We celebrate their actions every July 4th.



The pledge is just words, and the requirement that students mindlessly recite it daily is no indication of their current or future loyalty to this nation. I will never say it because I won't pledge my loyalty to any temporal government. Governments are temporary entities that often stray far a field of their founding principals. The principals that this nation was founded on, on the other hand are something that I will pledge myself to.

The pledge actually sort of stradles the border. What does a pledge to a Republic and a Flag mean? Is it to the Government or is it to the principles of the Republic?

The more I think about it the more I'd rather have a patriotic song sung instead (and not so often). The U.S. has 3. The Star Spangled Banner, which has at least 4 verses but few know more than one, America the Beautiful and My Country tis of Thee. The last gives an interesting History lesson and one your post reminded me of. For the music to My Country tis of Thee is of course the same as God Save the King (Queen). And the words originated in U.S. colonials being requited to sing God Save the King. That requirement did not work out too well. Something we Americans might want to reflect upon before we make the same mistakes.

 

[CriticalMassKitten]

If you won't pledge to your country why should your country give you a free education?

Because in our country we have the freedom to not pledge if we don't want to. Saying "You have freedom of speech, but if you don't like something that's too bad, we could take it away!" is ridiculous.

 

[flicka]

The Supreme Court ruled that the state doesn’t have the right to compel speech from anyone, and that they can object for religious reasons or otherwise.

Freedom to speak is freedom not to speak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

If they actually kicked the student out because she woulden't SAY the pleadge she should sue the school.

The fact that the student woulden't stand up was the only issue they could act on:



If this is the case, it means that the article is misleadingly titled.

Lot's of people can't/don't stand during the pledge. I don't thing the position of our bodies really matters as long as we aren't disruptive.

Like I said before, someone was mad and wanted to lash out. In a showdown of logic vs ego, ego will almost always win.

 

[SallyNow]

I can't believe that this!

The pledge is nothing but words. It's a public display, it's a mob thing. People do it whether they mean it or not, it become rote.

I'd rather see someone actually doing something for their country - becoming a teacher, a doctor, a social worker, a police officer, a firefighter, a journalist, a researcher, whatever - than saying a pledge.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

i said the altenate pledge in grade school

we pledge alliangce to the flag that michal jackson is a .....

or something like that.