Student booted from school after refusing to recite Pledge of Allegiance

[cantata]

If a child refuses to be loyal to their/my country at a young age I don't want my property taxes used to educate them. Lack of loyalty is what got some Brits blown to bits by educated British citizens who had no loyalty to Britain a few years back.

Do you think that, having pledged allegiance to the Union Jack every morning at school, those British citizens would have hated Western values less or more? I think being forced to pledge allegiance to something that I and my parents loathe would be likely to make me hate it more.

The hatred of secular culture is, at least in part, what led educated British citizens to detonate bombs in central London in 2005. Nothing anyone could have done would have convinced them that a country where women are allowed to walk around with legs and cleavage showing is a good place to live.

 

[AnonymousAgnostic]

I never stood and said the pledge during highschool. The teacher would give me problems about it, but I preferred to sit quietly. I see nothing unpatriotic about practicing my constitutional right to say what I want, even when I want to say nothing.

 

[Gremlins]

If you won't pledge to your country why should your country give you a free education?

Because education is a right; you should receive it no matter what your beliefs, opinions, race, creed, colour, gender. The US constitution gives you the right, even if you're a minor, to say or not say whatever you want.

 

[m9lc]

At my school I think that you can technically be disciplined for refusing to stand (though I'm fairly certain none of the teachers would really care). Half the students don't say it (when it's that early in the morning you don't feel like talking), and I'm fairly certain the school isn't allowed to punish you for refusing to say it. Just refusing to stand up. Doesn't really make any sense to me.

Honestly, I think saying the pledge of allegiance every day is just silly. It's a pledge; shouldn't they believe us the first time? Every day really does just feel like brainwashing.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I'm a little baffled by this.

Must you recite the pledge of allegiance in order to qualify for an education? Should that be so?

There's no such thing over here in the UK. The teachers would be rather embarrased to enforce it and the kids would just muck about through the entire thing. I would say good for them if they did. Who is anyone else to tell you who to swear allegiance to?

In a US public school, that would be a First Amendment violation.

 

[Pogue]

I don't see any reason why you would have to pledge if you don't want to. Isn't part of the idea that it isn't forced and that it's something you should choose to do?
As yet another Brit (we're taking over ) I also find the whole idea quite strange. The one time the congregation of a church I was in tried to do something vaguely patrotic- singing the English national anthem- quite a few people, my mother and I included, did not take part. And nobody minded at all.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I'm a little baffled by this.

Must you recite the pledge of allegiance in order to qualify for an education? Should that be so?

There's no such thing over here in the UK. The teachers would be rather embarrased to enforce it and the kids would just muck about through the entire thing. I would say good for them if they did. Who is anyone else to tell you who to swear allegiance to?

If anybody over here even proposed as much as an optional recitation of such an oath, the public outcry would be immense. (And the one who suggested it would very likely receive the label "Nazi", even if his nationalism wasn't coupled with racist tendencies).

We've been through all that nationalist crap in the past. We know better now than to encourage such tendencies, let alone to punish people who do not comply with them.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

At my school I think that you can technically be disciplined for refusing to stand (though I'm fairly certain none of the teachers would really care). Half the students don't say it (when it's that early in the morning you don't feel like talking), and I'm fairly certain the school isn't allowed to punish you for refusing to say it. Just refusing to stand up. Doesn't really make any sense to me.

Honestly, I think saying the pledge of allegiance every day is just silly. It's a pledge; shouldn't they believe us the first time? Every day really does just feel like brainwashing.

It certainly smacks of fascism, if you ask me. All that nationalist pathos is really baffling to Europeans.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I'm a little baffled by this.

Must you recite the pledge of allegiance in order to qualify for an education? Should that be so?

There's no such thing over here in the UK. The teachers would be rather embarrased to enforce it and the kids would just muck about through the entire thing. I would say good for them if they did. Who is anyone else to tell you who to swear allegiance to?

I live in the United States.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and the republic for which it stands.

I have never pledged allegiance for the place I live.

I hope you see my point.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I've wondered about the point of such pledging.

To a flag ... it is an inanimate object; one which cannot possibly appreciate your devotion.

Can the nation care? Does it notice? Isn't nationhood a concept? It isn't a thing that can notice anything else.

Pledging exists to show everyone else how loyal you are. Kind of like pharisees praying on the street corner.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I've wondered about the point of such pledging.

To a flag ... it is an inanimate object; one which cannot possibly appreciate your devotion.

Can the nation care? Does it notice? Isn't nationhood a concept? It isn't a thing that can notice anything else.

Pledging exists to show everyone else how loyal you are. Kind of like pharisees praying on the street corner.

Kinda like getting baptized when you become a Christian. It is to show others that you are loyal, and also so that you know you are loyal enough to show others that you are loyal. But with everyone doing it these days, it is kinda like the whole "God is great..." chant you say before you eat, you don't mean it, it is just something you do to save face.

 

[LightHorseman]

Originally Posted by Tinker Grey
I've wondered about the point of such pledging.

To a flag ... it is an inanimate object; one which cannot possibly appreciate your devotion.

Can the nation care? Does it notice? Isn't nationhood a concept? It isn't a thing that can notice anything else.

Pledging exists to show everyone else how loyal you are. Kind of like pharisees praying on the street corner.

The pledge of alegiance to a flag and a country look seriously close to idolatry to me. I look forward to seeing the self appointed "true" Christian Patriots crawl out of the woodwork to explain how pledging to the flag isn't idolatry, but praying towards Mecca is.