Struggling With The Sabbath

[Job8]

I am having an intense struggle in my heart and mind over this issue of the Sabbath. This is a major influence on me and will weigh heavily upon my decision of which Church I will join. I would really appreciate any insight you can give.

1. The principle of the sabbath was established by God Himself at Creation.
2. The sabbath was given to Israel and the principle of the sabbath to the world. Israel generally failed to properly observe either the weekly sabbath, or the sabbath rest of the land. Hence they went into captivity.
3. Christ declared Himself Lord of the sabbath, and also gave His Church the Lord's Day (rev 1:10). The Lord's Day celebrates His resurrection.
4. Christians in the apostolic churches (New Testament churches) met on the first day of the week to worship and to partake of the Lord's Supper. Pentecost was also on the first day of the week.
5. Paul declared the "sabbath days" to be "shadows" of the reality of God's eternal sabbath rest through Christ, and the believer's rest in Him.

Please study the New Testament and you will find that Christians are not commanded to observe the sabbath (see Acts 15). But they did meet on the first day of the week, and this is confirmed by Justin Martyr in his writings (c. 150 AD). So the principle and spirit of the sabbath is now in the Lord's Day.

 

[outsidethecamp]

When we say Jesus is our sabbath rest, we are only speaking figuratively. The sabbath will always be a time, not a person.

What is figurative about finding rest for your souls?
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

What is figurative about "labouring and being heavy laden"?
Matt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Are we not to believe that His yoke is easy and His burden is light?
Matt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jesus wants us to rest for our own works of righteousness to earn brownie points with God and trust in His work and His righteousness. Moses brought the law, but Jesus Christ brought grace and truth (and rest).

This yoke, certainly wasn't light, neither was it figurative -
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

But His yoke is is light and certainly real and so is His rest.
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

His rest is to be experienced, now. He is to be experienced, now. He is life, and peace, and rest, now. A lot of people that have experienced that rest, now.

 

[outsidethecamp]

1. The principle of the sabbath was established by God Himself at Creation.
2. The sabbath was given to Israel and the principle of the sabbath to the world. Israel generally failed to properly observe either the weekly sabbath, or the sabbath rest of the land. Hence they went into captivity.
3. Christ declared Himself Lord of the sabbath, and also gave His Church the Lord's Day (rev 1:10). The Lord's Day celebrates His resurrection.
4. Christians in the apostolic churches (New Testament churches) met on the first day of the week to worship and to partake of the Lord's Supper. Pentecost was also on the first day of the week.
5. Paul declared the "sabbath days" to be "shadows" of the reality of God's eternal sabbath rest through Christ, and the believer's rest in Him.

Please study the New Testament and you will find that Christians are not commanded to observe the sabbath (see Acts 15). But they did meet on the first day of the week, and this is confirmed by Justin Martyr in his writings (c. 150 AD). So the principle and spirit of the sabbath is now in the Lord's Day.

Where did Paul declare what you said in #5?

The Lord also does not compel anyone to a certain day.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hebrews 7.12 says the law was changed. Hebrews 7.19 says what we now have is better than the law.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Hebrews 7.12 says the law was changed. Hebrews 7.19 says what we now have is better than the law.

Amen, better sacrifices, better promises, better covenant, better country, better resurrection.

Heb_4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Amen, better sacrifices, better promises, better covenant, better country, better resurrection.

Heb_4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Well, exactly. (Yes. I'm more dispensational than Reformed, as it happens ...

 

[Meowzltov]

What is figurative about finding rest for your souls?
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

What is figurative about "labouring and being heavy laden"?
Matt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Are we not to believe that His yoke is easy and His burden is light?
Matt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jesus wants us to rest for our own works of righteousness to earn brownie points with God and trust in His work and His righteousness. Moses brought the law, but Jesus Christ brought grace and truth (and rest).

This yoke, certainly wasn't light, neither was it figurative -
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

But His yoke is is light and certainly real and so is His rest.
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

His rest is to be experienced, now. He is to be experienced, now. He is life, and peace, and rest, now. A lot of people that have experienced that rest, now.

It is a figurative sabbath because it has nothing to do with the seventh day.

 

[TheBarrd]

Here is the prophecy outlining the New Covenant from Jeremiah 31:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The first thing I notice here is that this New Covenant, just like the Old Covenant, is to be made with the House of Israel. So, if you reject the Old Covenant as being given to the Jews only, then this one is not for you, either.
Next, I see that there will be some changes in this New Covenant. It will not be according to the Old Covenant.
Next, I see that God says that He will write His law in our hearts. There is some controversy over what law this refers to, but it seems fairly obvious that God says "My law". I can't really argue with Him about that. I don't get to choose. And since this was rather a long time before the New Testament, there is very little doubt that He is referring to His law that was already in existence.
Finally, I see some major differences between this New Covenant, and the Old Covenant. Well, that shouldn't be surprising, because we were told at the beginning of the prophecy that this Covenant would be "not according to" the Old Covenant.
So what are the differences? Is it a different law?
No...but there seems to be a difference in the way God will deal with His people. He will have an intimate relationship with each individual. They will not need someone else to tell them Who He is or what He expects of us...although we have plenty of people who try to do just that.
And finally, the most important change of all:

I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Now, others may do as they will...keep the Catholic "sabbath" if you like.

And they are right in that keeping the law does not save us. I would say, however, that works...including obedience to God...is a natural outgrowth of having His Spirit within us.
Keeping the law may not save us.
But I am quite sure that people who have been saved will strive to obey God.
Keeping the law may not save us.
But Jesus and His Apostles kept it all their lives.
Keeping the law may not save us.
But it is pleasing to Jesus Christ, and to His Father.

Therefore, I will keep the law.

 

[outsidethecamp]

It is a figurative sabbath because it has nothing to do with the seventh day.

Ahh, I see. Like a "type". Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Catherineanne]

I am having an intense struggle in my heart and mind over this issue of the Sabbath. This is a major influence on me and will weigh heavily upon my decision of which Church I will join. I would really appreciate any insight you can give.


May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you. May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

This is an interesting question and you have made a very good case for Saturday observance. Thank you for that.

As I understand it, the practice of the very earliest followers of the Way, ie those in Jerusalem under James after the Lord's resurrection and ascension, was to attend synagogue on Saturday; the Sabbath. Followers of the Way in this very early church regarded themselves as Jewish, and followed Torah. They preached in synagogues, and in the temple, as the Lord himself did.

Then on Sunday, called the Lord's Day because it commemorated the Resurrection, they met in one another's homes for the Eucharist; thanksgiving for their blessings, and in accordance with the Lord's instructions. There were no Christian churches; their 'church' was still the synagogue. Meetings in homes were for the Eucharist.

All of this changed after the fall of Jerusalem in about 70AD. Tensions between followers of the Way and the Jews had gradually became more and more apparent, until Christians (as they began to be called) were no longer welcome in the synagogue. Believers gradually learned to identify themselves in contradistinction to Judaism, as hostility between the two groups grew. At this point synagogue attendance for Christians was no longer possible, and it would be more and more difficult for any Christian to regard him or herself as a fully Torah observant Jew AND a Christian. There were too many differences by that point for such an identity to be easily held, and this remains true today. Although there are Messianic Christians, they do not have an easy life; Jews don't regard them as Jewish and Christians too often treat them with a lack of charity and (falsely) accuse them of legalism.

So, to the OP. Given that many of us have the unheard of luxury of 2 day weekends there may well be a case for saying, Sunday is the Lord's Day; the day when we commemorate his resurrection by partaking of the Eucharist. Meanwhile, Saturday can remain the Sabbath of the Lord, as given to Moses and not cancelled by Christ. This might be countered, however, by saying that we are to work for six days and rest on one; we are not authorised to have two Sabbaths and therefore must choose one or the other.

So it becomes a choice of three options:

1 Have 2 Sabbaths; one of rest, one of resurrection.
2 Follow Jewish tradition and have Saturday Sabbath, in which case we might have a problem accessing the Eucharist.
3 Follow predominant Christian tradition and have Sunday Sabbath, Sunday Eucharist and worship.

Personally I do not really mind which of these anyone else chooses, as long as their choice is made in all conscience; I do not think any of them are forbidden to Christians because of the example of the very earliest church in Jerusalem, contrasting with later practice as outlined in Acts. Both are Biblical, in other words.

What I think is less acceptable is the pages and pages of argument on this thread, attempting to convince the Others that they are Wrong. They are not wrong; they are following their own conscience on this matter.

Christians are not forbidden from honouring the Sabbath as Jewish people do. There is a very good case to be made for the blessings that this might bring, and the OP has made that case very well imo.

On the other hand, Christians who treat Sunday as their Sabbath are also not under condemnation. This has been the practice of the church for such a very long time that Sunday worship effectively defines our faith; every Sunday is a Feast Day of the Resurrection; a day to celebrate and praise God for his many blessings to us. As long as we are working 6 days and resting 1, it can make little difference to God if, as the Lord tells us, the Sabbath is made for us, not we for the Sabbath.

Whichever anyone chooses, I hope we can remember to speak with respect to the others, and allow them freedom of conscience on this matter.

 

[Meowzltov]

The first thing I notice here is that this New Covenant, just like the Old Covenant, is to be made with the House of Israel.

Yes! At the end of days, Israel will come to Christ!

 

[outsidethecamp]

This is an interesting question and you have made a very good case for Saturday observance. Thank you for that.

As I understand it, the practice of the very earliest followers of the Way, ie those in Jerusalem under James after the Lord's resurrection and ascension, was to attend synagogue on Saturday; the Sabbath. Followers of the Way in this very early church regarded themselves as Jewish, and followed Torah. They preached in synagogues, and in the temple, as the Lord himself did.

Then on Sunday, called the Lord's Day because it commemorated the Resurrection, they met in one another's homes for the Eucharist; thanksgiving for their blessings, and in accordance with the Lord's instructions. There were no Christian churches; their 'church' was still the synagogue. Meetings in homes were for the Eucharist.

All of this changed after the fall of Jerusalem in about 70AD. Tensions between followers of the Way and the Jews had gradually became more and more apparent, until Christians (as they began to be called) were no longer welcome in the synagogue. Believers gradually learned to identify themselves in contradistinction to Judaism, as hostility between the two groups grew. At this point synagogue attendance for Christians was no longer possible, and it would be more and more difficult for any Christian to regard him or herself as a fully Torah observant Jew AND a Christian. There were too many differences by that point for such an identity to be easily held, and this remains true today. Although there are Messianic Christians, they do not have an easy life; Jews don't regard them as Jewish and Christians too often treat them with a lack of charity and (falsely) accuse them of legalism.

So, to the OP. Given that many of us have the unheard of luxury of 2 day weekends there may well be a case for saying, Sunday is the Lord's Day; the day when we commemorate his resurrection by partaking of the Eucharist. Meanwhile, Saturday can remain the Sabbath of the Lord, as given to Moses and not cancelled by Christ. This might be countered, however, by saying that we are to work for six days and rest on one; we are not authorised to have two Sabbaths and therefore must choose one or the other.

So it becomes a choice of three options:

1 Have 2 Sabbaths; one of rest, one of resurrection.
2 Follow Jewish tradition and have Saturday Sabbath, in which case we might have a problem accessing the Eucharist.
3 Follow predominant Christian tradition and have Sunday Sabbath, Sunday Eucharist and worship.

Personally I do not really mind which of these anyone else chooses, as long as their choice is made in all conscience; I do not think any of them are forbidden to Christians because of the example of the very earliest church in Jerusalem, contrasting with later practice as outlined in Acts. Both are Biblical, in other words.

What I think is less acceptable is the pages and pages of argument on this thread, attempting to convince the Others that they are Wrong. They are not wrong; they are following their own conscience on this matter.

Christians are not forbidden from honouring the Sabbath as Jewish people do. There is a very good case to be made for the blessings that this might bring, and the OP has made that case very well imo.

On the other hand, Christians who treat Sunday as their Sabbath are also not under condemnation. This has been the practice of the church for such a very long time that Sunday worship effectively defines our faith; as long as we are working 6 days and resting 1, it can make little difference to God if, as the Lord tells us, the Sabbath is made for us, not we for the Sabbath.

Whichever anyone chooses, I hope we can remember to speak with respect to the others, and allow them freedom of conscience on this matter.

You are right. We have liberty in the Lord to regard one special day to the Lord or we have liberty to regard all days of the week special to Him. The Lord is cool about it and not ritualistic. He just wants us to observe (abide in Him) Him, everyday. "For without Him we can do nothing."

The liberty that we don't have is to judge out brother for not observing a specific day.

Lots of people work weekends.

Following Christ is about the heart, not a physical day.

What about Christians in labor camps, working 7 days a week? I think what is probably most important for them is that they are resting in and trusting Jesus.

 

[Job8]

Where did Paul declare what you said in #5?

Col 2:16,17

The Lord also does not compel anyone to a certain day.

The Lord does not "compel" anyone to do anything, but He does lay down the consequences of doing things our way rather than His way. The very fact that John was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day (Rev 1:10) should suffice to teach us (a) that there is such a thing as the Lord's Day and (b) Christians in the New Testament were observing it.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

This would be taking this Scripture out of context when applied to the Lord's Day. Paul is addressing an assembly consisting of Jews and Gentiles, where the Jewish Christians still held to observing their feast days and holy days. Paul was teaching here that there was no need to question that by Gentile Christians. On the other hand he does give specific instructions about things to be done on "the first day of the week" and he himself waited a full week in order to meet with believers for worship on "the first day of the week".

 

[outsidethecamp]

Col 2:16,17

The Lord does not "compel" anyone to do anything, but He does lay down the consequences of doing things our way rather than His way. The very fact that John was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day (Rev 1:10) should suffice to teach us (a) that there is such a thing as the Lord's Day and (b) Christians in the New Testament were observing it.

No doubt individuals will still argue over another's obedience or lack thereof and keep setting their brother's "at nought" (treat them with contempt). It is a sad and shameful situation how Christians treat one another over this issue.

I don't believe we are to judge one another regarding "keeping the Sabbath". I won't call it the Lord's Day since that was only brought up in the New Testament ONE TIME towards the close of the 1st century. John could have been talking about the "Day of the Lord". The Lord seems to be more generous of heart towards us than we are towards each other. Especially, those who have to work on Sunday to provide for their family, yet they are resting in and trusting the Lord.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Saturday-Sunday.html

 

[Job8]

No doubt individuals will still argue over another's obedience or lack thereof and keep setting their brother's "at nought" (treat them with contempt). It is a sad and shameful situation how Christians treat one another over this issue.

These posts have nothing to do with judging others or setting other's at naught. I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion. Each one is directly accountable to God and Christ.

And the Lord's Day cannot possibly be confused with the Day of the Lord, which is a period of severe wrath and judgment against the ungodly, and is yet to come.

 

[outsidethecamp]

These posts have nothing to do with judging others or setting other's at naught. I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion. Each one is directly accountable to God and Christ.

That was the Lord's point in Romans 14, too. And I agree. Don't you agree that we should not ostracize or show contempt for other Believers that don't share our view regarding a day of the week? Would you dis-fellowship anyone that did not hold your view regarding a day of the week or would you still fellowship with them?

And the Lord's Day cannot possibly be confused with the Day of the Lord, which is a period of severe wrath and judgment against the ungodly, and is yet to come.

He was having a vision.

 

[TheBarrd]

I have wondered...for those early people, the first day of the week was a working day.
Men who worked in the fields would have been up before the sun, and gone...and would not return until late in the day.
How did those early Christians ever find the time to meet on Sunday?
The only day they had for such activities would have been the Sabbath.
And there does seem to be quite a bit of evidence that not only did Jesus keep the Sabbath during His life, His apostles continued to keep it after His death.

 

[TheBarrd]

We must not look at the first century church through our sophisticated, 21st century glasses.
Things were quite different in those days than they are now. No electricity...no electric lights, no washer or dryer, no dishwasher, no electric stove or microwave, no television of radio, no sewing machine, no electric blankets, no electric hot water heater, no refrigerator...we can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like. And no gas, either, so no gas versions of any of these appliances.
And of course, no running water...every drop of water used had to be carried from the well...that might be a little ways away. And-eek!-no indoor plumbing. I'll leave you to figure that out.

The point is, they didn't have anything like the leisure that we have, to decide "we will set this time aside for worship". Every day was filled from sun up till sun down with hard work.
Every day except Saturday.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Leisure? In the computer age many people have to work weekends, on-call, troubleshooting, etc. Thank God, we can be working, yet resting (in Him). Jesus was always working, yet resting in His Father (in His Father's will and in His love).

And, it is a righteous work to to labor and to provide for your family.

 

[TheBarrd]

Leisure? In the computer age many people have to work weekends, on-call, troubleshooting, etc. Thank God, we can be working, yet resting (in Him). Jesus was always working, yet resting in His Father (in His Father's will and in His love).

And, it is a righteous work to to labor and to provide for your family.

Compared to the physical labor that those early people had to perform, yes...we have leisure in our time.
Just think what it would be like if we had no electricity, no running water...and Mom couldn't run down to the local super market for a pound of ground round for your supper...
Everything...everything you own...had to be made by hand.
Usually your own hands....