Struggling With The Sabbath

[listed]

That is true for those of us that accept the NEW Covenant with the LAW of God "written on the mind and on the heart" Jer 31:31-33,... Hebrews 8.

amen!

in Christ,

Bob

Your religion and refusal to study the Scripture has you blinded to the truth. The passage in question says My law is written on the heart. It also makes it clear that it is not the covenant they broke. The covenant they broke is the Ten Commandments. Deut 4:13. Do you have some other covenant not generally known about in mind?

 

[Soyeong]

Your religion and refusal to study the Scripture has you blinded to the truth. The passage in question say My law is written on the heart. It also makes it clear that it is not the covenant they broke. The covenant they broke is the Ten Commandments. Deut 4:13. Do you have some other covenant not generally known about in mind?

So the problem with the Old Covenant wasn't with His law, but with people not keeping it. God made a new covenant where he freed us from our slavery to sin, where He would write His law on our hearts, and send us the Holy Spirit so that we could be enabled to keep His law through sanctification. But now you think that the New Covenant means that we can show blatant disregard for His law, which is the same problem that God had with the people under Old Covenant. And you think you're not the one who is blind??

It also makes it clear that it is not the covenant they broke. The covenant they broke is the Ten Commandments. Deut 4:13.

The next verse:
Deuteronomy 4:14 At that time, the Lord commanded me to teach you all the regulations and the case laws that you must keep in the land that you are entering to possess.

The Ten Commandments are the core of the the Old Covenant, but the people also agreed to follow the laws in Exodus 20-23, which was ratified in Exodus 24:6-8.

 

[listed]

So the problem with the Old Covenant wasn't with His law, but with people not keeping it. God made a new covenant where he freed us from our slavery to sin, where He would write His law on our hearts, and send us the Holy Spirit so that we could be enabled to keep His law through sanctification. But now you think that the New Covenant means that we can show blatant disregard for His law, which is the same problem that God had with the people under Old Covenant. And you think you're not the one who is blind??

Request you direct us to the verse showing a Gentile or Christian to do anything concerning the law. This is not a reference to "My law" found in Jer 31. Under the New Covenant sin is dealt with differently.

The next verse:
Deuteronomy 4:14 At that time, the Lord commanded me to teach you all the regulations and the case laws that you must keep in the land that you are entering to possess.

This you does not include anyone outside of Israel except guests and only while they are guests.

The Ten Commandments are the core of the the Old Covenant, but the people also agreed to follow the laws in Exodus 20-23, which was ratified in Exodus 24:6-8.

Once again this has nothing to do with Gentiles or Christians.

 

[bugkiller]

So the problem with the Old Covenant wasn't with His law, but with people not keeping it. God made a new covenant where he freed us from our slavery to sin, where He would write His law on our hearts, and send us the Holy Spirit so that we could be enabled to keep His law through sanctification. But now you think that the New Covenant means that we can show blatant disregard for His law, which is the same problem that God had with the people under Old Covenant. And you think you're not the one who is blind??



The next verse:
Deuteronomy 4:14 At that time, the Lord commanded me to teach you all the regulations and the case laws that you must keep in the land that you are entering to possess.

The Ten Commandments are the core of the the Old Covenant, but the people also agreed to follow the laws in Exodus 20-23, which was ratified in Exodus 24:6-8.

God's intention was for them to break the law.

O Lord, why hast thou made us to error from they ways and hardened our heart from thy fear? Isa 63:17

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy on all. Rom 11:32

bugkiller

 

[MoreCoffee]

I am having an intense struggle in my heart and mind over this issue of the Sabbath. This is a major influence on me and will weigh heavily upon my decision of which Church I will join. I would really appreciate any insight you can give.


May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you. May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

The above was posted on the 30th March 2015. I imagine things have moved on since then. I noticed that keeping Saturday as the Sabbath has been part of the Original Poster's life for a little while at least. And I saw that the Original poster was also involved in a thread about wanting to convert to the SDA church. Given these things I wonder if this thread is still relevant to the Original poster or if the matter is now settled for him?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by Soyeong

By living faithfully in obedience to the law through the leading of the Spirit, we become instruments of God's grace.
​

That is true for those of us that accept the NEW Covenant with the LAW of God "written on the mind and on the heart" Jer 31:31-33,... Hebrews 8.

amen!

Your religion and refusal to study the Scripture has you blinded to the truth.

More facts - less ad hominem please.

The passage in question says My law is written on the heart.

Indeed the Jer 31:31-33 and in Heb 8 we find that the NEW Covenant has the LAW of God (Known to Jeremiah and his readers) written on the heart and mind.

It also makes it clear that it is not the covenant they broke.

It does not argue that the LAW of God is different.

It says that the LAW of God was broken under the old covenant and is written on the heart under the new covenant.

Same LAW - two different agreements/Covenants.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

And I saw that the Original poster was also involved in a thread about wanting to convert to the SDA church. Given these things I wonder if this thread is still relevant to the Original poster or if the matter is now settled for him?

There were already a number of SDAs prior to this thread being started - nothing has changed in that regard - the points raised and answers given still apply.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

More facts - less ad hominem please.




Indeed the Jer 31:31-33 and in Heb 8 we find that the NEW Covenant has the LAW of God (Known to Jeremiah and his readers) written on the heart and mind.



It does not argue that the LAW of God is different.

It says that the LAW of God was broken under the old covenant and is written on the heart under the new covenant.

Same LAW - two different agreements/Covenants.

in Christ,

Bob

The discussion found in Acts 15 proves your theory wrong. If what you claim was written on the heart there would be no quarrel with the Pharisees who wanted the Gentile converts to follow the law. They would have had a desire to do so and would not need to be told. Furthermore the Apostles didn't require the keeping of the law.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

The discussion found in Acts 15 proves your theory wrong. If what you claim was written on the heart there would be no quarrel with the Pharisees who wanted the Gentile converts to follow the law. They would have had a desire to do so and would not need to be told. Furthermore the Apostles didn't require the keeping of the law.

bugkiller

The fact that we're not free to sin proves your theory wrong. See how easy that is?

 

[bugkiller]

The fact that we're not free to sin proves your theory wrong. See how easy that is?

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3

Heads I win, tails you lose.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by Soyeong

By living faithfully in obedience to the law through the leading of the Spirit, we become instruments of God's grace.
​

That is true for those of us that accept the NEW Covenant with the LAW of God "written on the mind and on the heart" Jer 31:31-33,... Hebrews 8.

amen!

Your religion and refusal to study the Scripture has you blinded to the truth.

More facts - less ad hominem please.

The passage in question says My law is written on the heart.

Indeed the Jer 31:31-33 and in Heb 8 we find that the NEW Covenant has the LAW of God (Known to Jeremiah and his readers) written on the heart and mind.

It also makes it clear that it is not the covenant they broke.

It does not argue that the LAW of God is different.

It says that the LAW of God was broken under the old covenant and is written on the heart under the new covenant.

Same LAW - two different agreements/Covenants.


[/quote]

The discussion found in Acts 15 proves your theory wrong.

That does not turn out to be correct so far.

If what you claim was written on the heart there would be no quarrel

I claim that in Jer 31:31-33 the Bible is true - the LAW of God is "Written on the heart and mind".

I stand by that.

And so does Paul when HE quotes it in Heb 8 and Heb 10.

with the Pharisees who wanted the Gentile converts to follow the law. They would have had a desire to do so

The LAW of God is written on the heart according to God - when it comes to the saints.

But all still have free will - they can choose to reject it - they can even choose to lose salvation if they continue to reject the work of the Holy Spirit.

This is also true of "Love God with all your heart" and with "Love your neighbor as yourself" - continual reminders of that in the NT - including in James and by Christ in Matt 22, and Paul in Romans 13.

The point remains.

Through the LaW comes the knowledge of sin Rom 3:19-22 for where there is no LAW neither is there sin - Romans 4.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

More facts - less ad hominem please.

Indeed the Jer 31:31-33 and in Heb 8 we find that the NEW Covenant has the LAW of God (Known to Jeremiah and his readers) written on the heart and mind.

It does not argue that the LAW of God is different.

It says that the LAW of God was broken under the old covenant and is written on the heart under the new covenant.

Same LAW - two different agreements/Covenants.

That does not turn out to be correct so far.

I claim that in Jer 31:31-33 the Bible is true - the LAW of God is "Written on the heart and mind".

I stand by that.

And so does Paul when HE quotes it in Heb 8 and Heb 10.

The LAW of God is written on the heart according to God - when it comes to the saints.

But all still have free will - they can choose to reject it - they can even choose to lose salvation if they continue to reject the work of the Holy Spirit.

This is also true of "Love God with all your heart" and with "Love your neighbor as yourself" - continual reminders of that in the NT - including in James and by Christ in Matt 22, and Paul in Romans 13.

The point remains.

Through the LaW comes the knowledge of sin Rom 3:19-22 for where there is no LAW neither is there sin - Romans 4.

in Christ,

Bob

You've changed the words allowing for your idea to be true. The problem is that isn't what the Bible says.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

I have accurately stated my case "sola scriptura" -

the point remains.

 

[bugkiller]

I have accurately stated my case "sola scriptura" -

the point remains.

Nope!

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Yep!

Point remains

 

[listed]

The truth is restricted once again because the truth is pushed aside by noise makers.

 

[listed]

Nope!

 

[listed]

Truncated compilations rarely promote the truth even with Scripture.

 

[listed]

What does Jer 31:31-33 say concerning the covenants?

It says they (Israel) broke one covenant.

What is that covenant? Is it merely an agreement with not contents? No. Moses says very plainly the covenant is the Ten Commandments in Deut 4:13.

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

This is unmistakable. So what covenant did they brake? Has to be the Ten Commandments. Is this God's Law? Yes. Is it the law written on the heart of believers? No. Why? Because v 31 says, ...saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant... The word new here means explicitly brand spanking new as in never before in existence. See the lexicon. Why is this an issue? It is because some say it is a mistranslation and means renewed. Unfortunately that is not the word used in the original transcript. To say such is sophistry or use beguiling words. IOW simply not true.

So the issue becomes what is My law in v 33? Is it the same as the covenant they broke? How when it says the new covenant will not be like the one they broke?

Verse 32 says, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake. Which covenant did they brake? Moses says the covenant is the Ten Commandments written on stone. Is this a lie or a polluted text? No such evidence has ever been submitted on a CF forum to my knowledge.

If it is the same law written on the heart of the believer, why does the passage (Jer 31:31-33 for context) say not according to? Why does the text say new covenant?

If this is to be made with Israel and those who take on that covenant (essentially becomes part of Israel) only, why does Acts conflict with testimony from Jesus' own disciples? Acts shows us the Gentile converts were not required to follow the law of Moses which includes circumcision and the Ten Commandments. Why did the Jews kick these people out of the synagogue by persecution? Why does Paul say it is foolish to return to the law if it is required in Galatians 3? Why does Paul say they bewitch people to follow the law? Why does Paul say we are delivered from the law in Romans 7? Paul does not say part of the law or delivered from the ceremonial law. Even if he did that would be admitting we are delivered from the 7th day Sabbath because is purely ceremonial in every aspect. All celebrations are ceremonies.

 

[Meowzltov]

There is more than one issue rolling around here.

Issue #1: Which day is sabbath.

Sabbath is the seventh day. It begins Friday at sundown and continues until Saturday at sundown. Christians do not worship on the sabbath, but on the Lord's Day, which is a whole other thing. The church did not "change the sabbath to Sunday" so to speak, but simply broke bread on the Lord's Day, the day upon which Christ arose.

Issue #2: Should Christians observe the sabbath?

Certainly the apostles did, but then again they were Jews. The sabbath was given to Israel as a memorial of our exodus from Egypt. Deuteronomy 5:15 "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day." Gentiles were never delivered from Egypt, and so do not keep the sabbath.

In Acts 15, the whole issue of Gentile converts is discussed, and whether they should be required to keep the Mosaic covenant (which would include keeping the sabbath). The verdict of the Council of Jerusalem is NO, appart from a few universal laws, Gentile converts do not need to become Jews, and do not need to keep any of the Jewish laws (including observing the sabbath).

In conclusion, I would say that you are not obligated to keep the sabbath, since you are not a Jew. However, if you want to keep the sabbath out of love, more power to you! In such a case, keep it from Friday sundown until Saturday Sundown.

You do not need to attend a "sabbath keeping church" to do so. I am Catholic, as well as Jew, and I keep sabbath. I basically refrain from working, lighting fires, etc., on sabbath, and still attend Church on Sunday. No conflict.