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Struggling With The Sabbath

GracetotheHumble

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If you're being honest here's a real approach to consider.

God is real, He can be real in your life if you believe and trust in His word.
An inductive study of God's word, considers the context. The bible is written for both people who lived before the cross and after the cross.
Being saved is the ice you need skate on.
The gospel teaches how to ice skate.

Jesus chose Paul to teach all the doctrines of the church. Rom 14 explains that worship is anytime a man gives to God.

Of course I'm being honest I don't even understand why that is a question here. I gave this question so I can continue my learning and possibly also edify some other sheep of Christ. Also this topic is one of the most hotly debated in the church and so I still haven't rested it in my mind.

Brother I already know that God is real all you have to do is look at the Sun and feel his spirit. I have been studying the scriptures 30 years and I attended a bible college for 3 years. So I do have some knowledge of the scriptures. Excuse me if I'm being prideful right now but I'm trying to explain a little more of my background.

I understand what you are saying about the cross and I understand the atonement somewhat. I guess brother where my disagreement with you comes is that I have a hard time believing that because Christ died we now have a licence to sin.
 
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listed

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Yes, I have been keeping a Saturday Sabbath for awhile but I still have some doubts and questions. I have also had a hard time with finding a good Sabbath keeping Church.
What are your specific doubts and questions? Are you currently involved with a church that assembles on Saturday?
 
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listed

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I think I am in agreement with you brother. I guess I still have some doubts and questions. I have been keeping a Saturday Sabbath for awhile. Jesus Christ said that whoever keeps and teaches the commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom but those who break the commandments and teach others to do so will be called the least.
Jesus says

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Jesus is not teaching or telling other to keep the law.

The time of the law's rule is over according to the Gospels and Paul's writings. Besides that the law was never given to or required for the Gentiles or the Christian.
 
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GracetotheHumble

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I would like to apologize to everyone. I am trying to answer as quickly as I can. I have been having some severe health issues and I was very ill yesterday and so I have been slow at responding. I will try to respond to you all. In his grace. God bless.
 
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listed

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Actually its quite possible to keep the sabbath in America as I have been keeping it for 6 months. I begin resting at dusk Friday and end when 3 stars come out on Saturday night. I spend Friday preparing any food I may need so I don't buy anything on the Sabbath and I do not watch television and I try to do no work. Sometimes its a struggle not to be tempted to check emails and bank accounts. I am still working on that. But mainly on the Sabbath I try to focus only on God, resting, and family. The Sabbath has actually become my favorite day of the week and I consider it a delight. I have also found that it is a great day to make donations and read. I learn more on the Sabbath than any other day and the rest I receive I have found really revitalizes my body. But I do still have some doubts and questions I guess I'm still learning. God bless.
You can not earn salvation. It is a free gift without obligation. Self righteousness will only earn you a warm retirement. The wages of sin is death. There are no wages of eternal life. That is a free gift and can not be earned.
 
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listed

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Actually you are proving you both have no clue as I am being completely honest. You are also proving that you are completely rude and are showing that you have some really bad fruit. And we all know that Jesus said we will know his true followers by their fruit so when you lack to show love to your brother all you are doing is exposing yourself and so I suggest that you examine your heart. May the Lord richly bless you as you continue to study his word.
Please prove us wrong. Name the organization you are at least flirting with if not a member. While you are at it please tell us exactly why you are trying to keep the Sabbath. I am confident we can prove without doubt you are not keeping the Sabbath as mentioned in Ex 20:8-11. There is no amending of the Ten Commandments.
 
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Of course I'm being honest I don't even understand why that is a question here. I gave this question so I can continue my learning and possibly also edify some other sheep of Christ. Also this topic is one of the most hotly debated in the church and so I still haven't rested it in my mind.

Brother I already know that God is real all you have to do is look at the Sun and feel his spirit. I have been studying the scriptures 30 years and I attended a bible college for 3 years. So I do have some knowledge of the scriptures. Excuse me if I'm being prideful right now but I'm trying to explain a little more of my background.

I understand what you are saying about the cross and I understand the atonement somewhat. I guess brother where my disagreement with you comes is that I have a hard time believing that because Christ died we now have a licence to sin.
Having read this thread I believe you are preaching the law and not asking questions of a confused person seeking understanding. I read SDA all the way.
 
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SAAN

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I am having an intense struggle in my heart and mind over this issue of the Sabbath. This is a major influence on me and will weigh heavily upon my decision of which Church I will join. I would really appreciate any insight you can give.


May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you. May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.


There are some churches that hold Saturday and Sunday services. Do what you feel in your heart is right. Coming on here for answers will get you bombarded with many out of context scriptures to back peoples personal beliefs.

Is the Sabbath a command of God? Yes
Did Jesus keeps the Sabbath? Yes
Did the disciples and Paul keep it? Yes
Did Jesus say anywhere in the bible it was going to be abolished? No

Is not keeping the Sabbath going to cancel your salvation? No, as we are saved by our faith in Christ

Can anyone keep the Sabbath the way the bible describes it is to be kept: ie, do no work, make no purchases, turn from your own pleasures(no TV, sports, social media, movies), dont travel too far? Probably not, as the many that come on here telling others to keep the Sabbath, I guarantee they are not keeping it the way the bible demands as I listed above

Do I keep the Sabbath? No, as I personally dont want on Saturdays to not be able to watch TV, sports, make purchases, or not do anything the scriptures states are my own pleasures.
Will I have to answer God for it, if it still to be kept the way the bible says it is? Yes



Remember, the Sabbath is a day of rest, not a command to go to church on Saturday. I know many that rest Saturday and go to church on Sundays, just like they were doing in the bible and 1st century believers.
 
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VictorC

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There are some churches that hold Saturday and Sunday services. Do what you feel in your heart is right. Coming on here for answers will get you bombarded with many out of context scriptures to back peoples personal beliefs.

Is the Sabbath a command of God? Yes
No, it isn't. The Sabbath remains a component of the Mosaic covenant, and you won't find a Sabbath commandment outside that covenant's tenure. It was exclusive to the children of Israel (Exodus 31:12-17) and doesn't appear as a commandment to the Gentile nations outside Israel's borders, nor to those who are no longer accounted as the children of Israel because of God's adoption.
John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Matthew 17
24 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, “Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?”
25 He said, “Yes.”
And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?”
26 Peter said to Him, “From strangers.”
Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free".
Galatians 4
Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
 
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Cribstyl

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Of course I'm being honest I don't even understand why that is a question here. I gave this question so I can continue my learning and possibly also edify some other sheep of Christ. Also this topic is one of the most hotly debated in the church and so I still haven't rested it in my mind.

Brother I already know that God is real all you have to do is look at the Sun and feel his spirit. I have been studying the scriptures 30 years and I attended a bible college for 3 years. So I do have some knowledge of the scriptures. Excuse me if I'm being prideful right now but I'm trying to explain a little more of my background.

I understand what you are saying about the cross and I understand the atonement somewhat. I guess brother where my disagreement with you comes is that I have a hard time believing that because Christ died we now have a licence to sin.

Well brother, pardon me because I'm having trouble understanding your honesty.
On one side of your mouth you're looking for a church (Sabbath or Sunday, Oh please help me brothers).
On the other side of your mouth those not keeping Sabbath or the law have a license to sin? We know you're not accusing us of being killers or thieves are you? You're accusing us of breaking the Sabbath.

With your 30yrs of experience are you going to show us where God requires Sabbath keeping or are you going to condemn us by a law that God says we're not under? What answers did you 3yrs of bible college give?
 
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SAAN

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No, it isn't. The Sabbath remains a component of the Mosaic covenant, and you won't find a Sabbath commandment outside that covenant's tenure. It was exclusive to the children of Israel (Exodus 31:12-17) and doesn't appear as a commandment to the Gentile nations outside Israel's borders, nor to those who are no longer accounted as the children of Israel because of God's adoption.
John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Matthew 17
24 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, “Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?”
25 He said, “Yes.”
And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?”
26 Peter said to Him, “From strangers
Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free".
Galatians 4
Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


The whole bible was exclusive to the children of Israel. We are grafted into Israel, not the other way around.

The Old covenant was with Israel and the New Covenant was directed towards Israel as well.
 
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VictorC

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The whole bible was exclusive to the children of Israel. We are grafted into Israel, not the other way around.
No, and no - on both claims. The Bible addresses various audiences in differing dispensations, and we aren't grafted into Israel - we are grafted into the Root that supports Israel as well as whoever God grants His adoption to.
Romans 11
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
Our 'support' is dependent on the Root, and not the other branches that represent Israel.
The Old covenant was with Israel and the New Covenant was directed towards Israel as well.
Agreed - it is called 'new' in contrast to the first (as Hebrews calls it) covenant or old (as 2 Corinthians calls it) covenant. Language directed toward the Gentiles doesn't refer to a new covenant per se, as the new covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ is the only covenant made with the Gentiles - and there is nothing to contrast it with.

My previous post pointed out the limited jurisdiction of the Mosaic covenant. Tenets of that covenant, such as the periodic Sabbath, are not found outside that covenant made exclusively with the children of Israel. We don't have a commandment to abide by the Sabbath or any other periodic shadow. Instead, we have a Biblical unction to enter into God's rest: "Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest" (Hebrews 4:11), 'that' rest being God's rest described in this chapter, and not a Sabbath.
 
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GracetotheHumble

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What are your specific doubts and questions? Are you currently involved with a church that assembles on Saturday?

Hello. I guess my doubts and questions come in because I see some people making good points on both sides of the argument so I am still a little confused.

No I am not involved with a Church right now. I have been traveling and moving a lot and also been in jail and the hospital recently so right now I'm investigating Churches and studying this issue of the Sabbath further. I was really interested in attending a Church called 26:8 Church when I was living in Idaho but it was around 20 miles away and I couldn't get a ride. Now I'm in another area and I'm currently investigating the SDA, Seventh Day Baptists, United Church of God, as well as some Churches that meet on Sunday.

To be completely honest with you right now I am leaning towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints but the SDA are in second place. I'm going to continue observing the Sabbath on Saturday until I rest the issue in my mind and choose a Church for sure.
 
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GracetotheHumble

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Jesus says

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Jesus is not teaching or telling other to keep the law.

The time of the law's rule is over according to the Gospels and Paul's writings. Besides that the law was never given to or required for the Gentiles or the Christian.

I respectfully disagree my friend as I believe the commandments are the law.
 
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Soyeong

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Cribstyl said:
Jesus chose Paul to teach all the doctrines of the church. Rom 14 explains that worship is anytime a man gives to God.

Romans 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.

The key to understanding Romans is the first verse. If you didn't know whether meat at a community meal had been offered to idols and chose to eat only vegetables to stay on the safe side, then that was your opinion. If you felt free to everything at a community meal, then that was your opinion. However, if you felt free to disregard God's dietary laws, than that was disobedience to God.

Luke 18:11-12 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’

Didache 8:1 Your fasts should not be with the hypocrites, for they fast on Mondays and Thursdays. You should fast on Wednesdays and Fridays.

Romans 14:6 makes it clear that regarding one day as more sacred than another is in regard to fasting. Fasting twice a week was a common practice in the 1st century and was often done to commemorate certain days, but it was a matter of opinion. Like the Pharisees and in the Didache, people were judging each other according whether they fasted and when they fasted, but the only time God commanded people to fast was Yom Kippur. So again, Paul was talking about disputable matters of opinion, not about obedience to the commands of God.

There had differences of opinion about how to keep the Sabbath, but they didn't have differences of opinion about whether to keep it. The Sabbath is not even mentioned in Romans 14.
 
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GracetotheHumble

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You can not earn salvation. It is a free gift without obligation. Self righteousness will only earn you a warm retirement. The wages of sin is death. There are no wages of eternal life. That is a free gift and can not be earned.

Well my friend I think you better double check the scriptures because when Christ returns he is going to judge everyone according to their works.

I'm not saying you can earn the atonement or forgiveness of sin but what I am saying is unless you are doing good works you will have no treasure in heaven.

I can give you many bible verses to support my position but I don't desire to overwhelm you. So I recommend you read Matthew 5:17-22. God bless. In his grace.
 
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Soyeong

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Oops, sorry, it looks like my previous replay got accidentally split between listed and Cribstyle.

listed said:
We have a New Covenant which includes no mandate to keep the 7th day Sabbath. This was promised in Jer 31:31-33. It is not a renewed or continuing covenant. The New Covenant is based on better promises and not law Heb 8:6. The New Covenant is the covenant in force for the Christian per Jesus as recorded in 3 Gospels.

The Renewed covenant involves the law being written on our hearts, so it includes the basic structure, but with better promises, a superior mediator, and superior sacrifice.

The Hebrew word "chadash" used in Jeremiah 31:31 can more accurately be translated as "renewed". It refers to new in quality rather than new in time, such as repairing something.

I am very sorry to hear that you will choose a church over legalism. One can not earn their salvation. Keeping the 7th day Sabbath will not secure salvation. But if you are choosing a religion and not a relationship with Jesus the Christ pick the most social church you can find.

The law was never intended to be kept legalistically. If Abraham and David were justified by faith (Romans 4:1-8) and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, then everyone who has ever been justified has been justified by faith, including Moses and the Israelites. This means that they were already declared righteous by faith before God gave them the law. So the purpose of the law was never to provide us with a means of becoming justified through our own effort and it was always meant to be kept by faith. God gave the law to Moses, among other reasons, so that those He had declared righteous would know how to practice righteousness and to build a relationship though faith between God and His people. Keeping the law legalistically in an attempt to become justified by your own effort is a perversion of the law. GracetotheHumble never said that he keeping the Sabbath because seeks to secure his salvation. Rather, he seeks to grow in his relationship with God by demonstrating his faith and love to God through obedience to His commands.
 
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Soyeong

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Have you considered that trying to do any action or works (including keeping with Sabbath tradition - which is 100% impossible in western nations that operate 24/7) in hopes that it's a 'key' to salvation is pretty much like saying "Yeah...I know that Jesus covered it all with pain/torture/blood/death, but it's not enough, I still have to earn it". ?

He never said anything about earning salvation through works. As Ephesians 2:8-10 is saying, we are saved by grace through faith, not by practicing righteousness, but for the purpose of practicing righteousness. Works in obedience to God's commands are the proper outflowing of our faith.
 
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Soyeong

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Actually its quite possible to keep the sabbath in America as I have been keeping it for 6 months. I begin resting at dusk Friday and end when 3 stars come out on Saturday night. I spend Friday preparing any food I may need so I don't buy anything on the Sabbath and I do not watch television and I try to do no work. Sometimes its a struggle not to be tempted to check emails and bank accounts. I am still working on that. But mainly on the Sabbath I try to focus only on God, resting, and family. The Sabbath has actually become my favorite day of the week and I consider it a delight. I have also found that it is a great day to make donations and read. I learn more on the Sabbath than any other day and the rest I receive I have found really revitalizes my body. But I do still have some doubts and questions I guess I'm still learning. God bless.

Amen! Just like the Psalmists, you understand that the obedience to God's commands was meant to be a delight, not a legalistic burden that the Pharisees perverted them into. I commend your obedience to God through the working of His Spirit.
 
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VictorC

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I have been studying the scriptures 30 years and I attended a bible college for 3 years. So I do have some knowledge of the scriptures.
...also been in jail...
...
To be completely honest with you right now I am leaning towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints but the SDA are in second place.
I sense problems extending beyond bad theology, evidenced by "leaning" toward a non-Christian cult. Whatever did you learn in that Bible college?
 
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